Honest Question: Is Maggia Muscle Viewed As Overpowered?

lymang

dkffiv wrote:

With goons-only he's moderately balanced, I tend to kill him last (unless there's a Don) because his yellow doesn't actually kill you barring cascades (Thug's yellow is more dangerous). With an actual character a threaten going off is usually an instant loss.

This, this, this. When it's goon only... he's toothless, largely, except accidental cascades. Put him with a character and a threaten going off is ridiculously stupid. To me, I would prefer he be somewhere more in a middle ground.

Unknown

Muscle goons can be tough, but neither induce the, "Meh. I'm not even going to bother playing this match" vibe quite the way ninjas and sentries do...

DBC

Malcrof

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Muscle goons can be tough, but neither induce the, "Meh. I'm not even going to bother playing this match" vibe quite the way ninjas and sentries do...

DBC

DDQ today is Ninja + Muscle, my first wipe in over a month...

Buret0

Just like anything else in this game, party make-up determines strength.

Gunners are a joke, unless they are paired with swarmers... taking care of the special tiles isn't that tough.
Muscle aren't that tough, unless they get paired with someone that can match tiles.
Ninjas are only a problem when they are feeding. OBW, stunners, and anyone that produces red tiles can deal with pure ninjas. Protect tiles are your friend against bloody caltrops.

The worst are the cover fire snipers imo. They deplete your ability to match away their yellows and blues, giving them a much easier time getting their CD.

Venom is a jerk when paired with anyone who feeds him his stun + a big AoE like rocket. You think you're going to match away the CD and he stuns your whole team for a turn, allowing the CD tile to go off.

optimus2861

Malcrof wrote:

DDQ today is Ninja + Muscle, my first wipe in over a month...

I'm thankful my Blade is 5-black already so I don't need to bother. That ninja+muscle design is outright sadistic. It's by far the hardest DDQ setup going, and the only one into which I will take AP boosts.

Malcrof

Buret0 wrote:

Just like anything else in this game, party make-up determines strength.

Gunners are a joke, unless they are paired with swarmers... taking care of the special tiles isn't that tough.
Muscle aren't that tough, unless they get paired with someone that can match tiles.
Ninjas are only a problem when they are feeding. OBW, stunners, and anyone that produces red tiles can deal with pure ninjas. Protect tiles are your friend against bloody caltrops.

The worst are the cover fire snipers imo. They deplete your ability to match away their yellows and blues, giving them a much easier time getting their CD.

Venom is a jerk when paired with anyone who feeds him his stun + a big AoE like rocket. You think you're going to match away the CD and he stuns your whole team for a turn, allowing the CD tile to go off.

Suppressing fire right when you get enough AP to finish the board...

The fact that goons can sometimes be difficult is a good thing. I don't want a game that is so easy that i get bored.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

I don't think it's fair to list any of the sentries as true Goons because they can move the board. They're more like (Yelena+Venom) level characters. Taking an extra turn (fighter) is kind of like Venom's Symbiote Snare. Generating crits is like Yelena's Payback Mission.

When I first started the game, Muscles were definitely the most threatening. Now they're only a minor pain unless they're paired with a high level character.

they're goons because they're under a "character". And IMO they shouldn't move the board...they shake it enough.

And comparing them to yelena/venom? Cmon.

Ultron Sentries have: damage, board control, board shake, generate tons of ap, HP, come in ridiculous waves

Their only downside is they don't have abilities

Yes, you can counter/fight them, but you can fight anything in game.

GrimSkald

raisinbman wrote:

they shouldn't move the board...they shake it enough.

And comparing them to yelena/venom? Cmon.

Ultron Sentries have: damage, board control, board shake, generate tons of ap, HP, come in ridiculous waves

Their only downside is they don't have abilities

Yes, you can counter/fight them, but you can fight anything in game.

Here's the thing, though - while the sentries can move the board, they don't actually do anything with the AP they generate. This is pretty huge - it means that they have no ability to do a lot of damage with anything other than a cascade. The Gunner is the exception - the crit tiles can potentially do a fair bit of damage, but still it's nothing like "Deadly shot" or any of the Muscle's abilities.

I don't find the sentries dangerous at all, save when coupled with a character with abilities. Since they have little ability to "spike" damage, protect tiles are incredibly effective against them.

GrimSkald

Double posted instead of editing. Sorry!

Unknown

GrimSkald wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

they shouldn't move the board...they shake it enough.

And comparing them to yelena/venom? Cmon.

Ultron Sentries have: damage, board control, board shake, generate tons of ap, HP, come in ridiculous waves

Their only downside is they don't have abilities

Yes, you can counter/fight them, but you can fight anything in game.

Here's the thing, though - while the sentries can move the board, they don't actually do anything with the AP they generate. This is pretty huge - it means that they have no ability to do a lot of damage with anything other than a cascade. The Gunner is the exception - the crit tiles can potentially do a fair bit of damage, but still it's nothing like "Deadly shot" or any of the Muscle's abilities.

I don't find the sentries dangerous at all, save when coupled with a character with abilities. Since they have little ability to "spike" damage, protect tiles are incredibly effective against them.

They're plenty dangerous...of course my Luke Cage just gained 12 levels so maybe not.

I mean, I know a way to fight them without danger, but it just takes too long.

the devs have already decided its fair game to include sentries + characters so you can't say they can't use AP...sets a dangerous precedent

Buret0

raisinbman wrote:

GrimSkald wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

they shouldn't move the board...they shake it enough.

And comparing them to yelena/venom? Cmon.

Ultron Sentries have: damage, board control, board shake, generate tons of ap, HP, come in ridiculous waves

Their only downside is they don't have abilities

Yes, you can counter/fight them, but you can fight anything in game.

Here's the thing, though - while the sentries can move the board, they don't actually do anything with the AP they generate. This is pretty huge - it means that they have no ability to do a lot of damage with anything other than a cascade. The Gunner is the exception - the crit tiles can potentially do a fair bit of damage, but still it's nothing like "Deadly shot" or any of the Muscle's abilities.

I don't find the sentries dangerous at all, save when coupled with a character with abilities. Since they have little ability to "spike" damage, protect tiles are incredibly effective against them.

They're plenty dangerous...of course my Luke Cage just gained 12 levels so maybe not.

I mean, I know a way to fight them without danger, but it just takes too long.

the devs have already decided its fair game to include sentries + characters so you can't say they can't use AP...sets a dangerous precedent

Yeah, so they aren't like goons at all. They don't do CD tiles, they make matches, and they don't generate AP every turn.

They aren't goons, they are characters that have only passive abilities.

Like if someone only had Blue and Yellow on PX. If you don't think of them as goons, because they have nothing in common with goons, does that help?

Unknown

Buret0 wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

GrimSkald wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

they shouldn't move the board...they shake it enough.

And comparing them to yelena/venom? Cmon.

Ultron Sentries have: damage, board control, board shake, generate tons of ap, HP, come in ridiculous waves

Their only downside is they don't have abilities

Yes, you can counter/fight them, but you can fight anything in game.

Here's the thing, though - while the sentries can move the board, they don't actually do anything with the AP they generate. This is pretty huge - it means that they have no ability to do a lot of damage with anything other than a cascade. The Gunner is the exception - the crit tiles can potentially do a fair bit of damage, but still it's nothing like "Deadly shot" or any of the Muscle's abilities.

I don't find the sentries dangerous at all, save when coupled with a character with abilities. Since they have little ability to "spike" damage, protect tiles are incredibly effective against them.

They're plenty dangerous...of course my Luke Cage just gained 12 levels so maybe not.

I mean, I know a way to fight them without danger, but it just takes too long.

the devs have already decided its fair game to include sentries + characters so you can't say they can't use AP...sets a dangerous precedent

Yeah, so they aren't like goons at all. They don't do CD tiles, they make matches, and they don't generate AP every turn.

They aren't goons, they are characters that have only passive abilities.

Like if someone only had Blue and Yellow on PX. If you don't think of them as goons, because they have nothing in common with goons, does that help?

they are goons by definition, just because it doesn't quack like a duck doesn't change its species

simonsez

raisinbman wrote:

they are goons by definition, just because it doesn't quack like a duck doesn't change its species

And just because it doesn't quack like a duck, doesn't mean it's not a moose.

I don't know what your definition is, but everyone else's definition of a goon is a character that pulls AP out of its butt instead of moving the board to make matches. It's not defined as a character that is not playable by us.

Buret0

simonsez wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

they are goons by definition, just because it doesn't quack like a duck doesn't change its species

And just because it doesn't quack like a duck, doesn't mean it's not a moose.

I don't know what your definition is, but everyone else's definition of a goon is a character that pulls AP out of its butt instead of moving the board to make matches. It's not defined as a character that is not playable by us.

Someone used the term Ultron goons, therefore they are goons.

Even though they don't behave at all like goons, they behave like characters with three passive abilities.

So since they behave like a character, according to the duck statement, aren't they ducks (characters)?

I mean if it walks and quacks like a duck, but people want to call it a goon, does that make it a goon?

Unknown

Buret0 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

they are goons by definition, just because it doesn't quack like a duck doesn't change its species

And just because it doesn't quack like a duck, doesn't mean it's not a moose.

I don't know what your definition is, but everyone else's definition of a goon is a character that pulls AP out of its butt instead of moving the board to make matches. It's not defined as a character that is not playable by us.

Someone used the term Ultron goons, therefore they are goons.

Even though they don't behave at all like goons, they behave like characters with three passive abilities.

So since they behave like a character, according to the duck statement, aren't they ducks (characters)?

I mean if it walks and quacks like a duck, but people want to call it a goon, does that make it a goon?

They are goons. There are characters, which stand a chance of being playable, and there are goons, which aren't.

But by all means, if you feel they have a chance of being playable, covered, etc. keep believin' that.

dkffiv

Final sub has Carnage + 2 Muscles on the Thing essential node. If a threaten goes off you just lose, even if you down Carnage, unless your Thing is at the perfect break point to get defense tiles up.

Ooh Carnage Muscle Lieutenant. I think 2x Muscle might be better though.

GrimSkald

raisinbman wrote:

They are goons. There are characters, which stand a chance of being playable, and there are goons, which aren't.

But by all means, if you feel they have a chance of being playable, covered, etc. keep believin' that.

By your definition, though, Ultron Prime and Gorgon are both goons.

Malcrof

GrimSkald wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

They are goons. There are characters, which stand a chance of being playable, and there are goons, which aren't.

But by all means, if you feel they have a chance of being playable, covered, etc. keep believin' that.

By your definition, though, Ultron Prime and Gorgon are both goons.

Gorgon is actually a very well built character, with some nice abilities. I personally would love to add him to my roster!

MarcusGraves

dkffiv wrote:

Final sub has Carnage + 2 Muscles on the Thing essential node. If a threaten goes off you just lose, even if you down Carnage, unless your Thing is at the perfect break point to get defense tiles up.

Ooh Carnage Muscle Lieutenant. I think 2x Muscle might be better though.

Carnage/muscle/Hand Konran, Konran feeds carnage red for symbiote scythes and can self heal, muscle makes strike tiles and everyone has a team damage ability.

TheOncomingStorm

They can't all be daisies and daffodils.