PVP - points promised vs. points awarded

2

Comments

  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    Esheris wrote:
    MarvelMan wrote:
    Esheris wrote:
    Hmm...getting the wrong amount of points is not fine with me.

    The thing is, you are getting the RIGHT amount. The display is off. I guess they could drop the display value (like they did with the opps point total).......

    Not arguing with you, just curious to know why they don't fix the display number then. I still would like to know the exact number of points (so I know if it's worth the fight). ^_^

    The issue is trying to get the number to reflect the current value of the target, while balancing it with server interaction in real time and queuing the matches. To reduce server traffic, among other things, they send you a batch (IIRC we dont know how many, but around 8) and then you either play through them, hold them, or skip...so there are multiple ways for points to decay or rise before you finish your fight and get rewarded. With the change in points (to a max of 75) wild point swings are more common as well. In the last PVP (Webslinger) I know of one person who mistimed a jump and was without a shield for almost 20 min and lost about 500 points, and I hit someone about 10 PVPs back that had this as well, and they had been over 2k but dropped below 1k by the time I finished my fight as I had saved them for a hop.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    MarvelMan wrote:
    Esheris wrote:
    Hmm...getting the wrong amount of points is not fine with me.

    The thing is, you are getting the RIGHT amount. The display is off. I guess they could drop the display value (like they did with the opps point total).......
    If it IS off then it is NOT right.

    And yes, it's same issue than before but now it became a real, big problem. Queueing for 25 and getting 21 was OK, queueing for 35 and getting 16 isn't.

    Actually, for the first time on blade pvp I did the "adult's game" and shielded for 8h with more than 8h left, to hop and shield for 3h again after. I had 850 score and queued a target for 35 to try at least the 900 mark. I could do it with a couple fights just fine. Then after I got only 16 I shielded right away at 866, no way I'm gonna gamble this much and lose my time.
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    ShionSinX wrote:
    MarvelMan wrote:
    Esheris wrote:
    Hmm...getting the wrong amount of points is not fine with me.

    The thing is, you are getting the RIGHT amount. The display is off. I guess they could drop the display value (like they did with the opps point total).......
    If it IS off then it is NOT right.

    And yes, it's same issue than before but now it became a real, big problem. Queueing for 25 and getting 21 was OK, queueing for 35 and getting 16 isn't.

    Actually, for the first time on blade pvp I did the "adult's game" and shielded for 8h with more than 8h left, to hop and shield for 3h again after. I had 850 score and queued a target for 35 to try at least the 900 mark. I could do it with a couple fights just fine. Then after I got only 16 I shielded right away at 866, no way I'm gonna gamble this much and lose my time.

    Re-read. Its not the game that is off, its the display. And based on the way they are working to lessen data/server loads that wont get "fixed." Can it be improved? Probably. But not fixed. And would you really want it fixed if the solution was to remove it from view and just pair you randomly?

    Youre problem seems to be that you queued someone easy (why else settle for 35points?) and then expected them to have similar points to what you saw....when TONS of other people queued them, and beat them ASAP, as well. If you are in a shield, and going to queue people, you need to work the queues by skipping through to a new batch to make sure the score is accurate as possible, or finding a suitably high point target where the decrease wont be your undoing.

    (PS If you want more help with the shield game, it can definitely be nuanced, feel free to PM me)
  • Esheris
    Esheris Posts: 216 Tile Toppler
    No one is asking you for shield advice so I'm assuming you are trolling at this point.

    People just want to see the exact number that they will win if they beat a match. Sometimes a single point matters. =)

    If it's a display error then it should be fixed.
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    Esheris wrote:
    No one is asking you for shield advice so I'm assuming you are trolling at this point.

    People just want to see the exact number that they will win if they beat a match. Sometimes a single point matters. =)

    If it's a display error then it should be fixed.

    Actually, he described a scenario where he is new to shields and obviously misplayed it. Some advice would help with that, and I was offering in case he is interested.

    Good luck with that. There really is no way, without creating significant impact on data/server loads, to make the point display be real time. Seems to me you either cant see that, which is why I tried to explain it, or YOU are trolling.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    MarvelMan wrote:
    To reduce server traffic, among other things, they send you a batch (IIRC we dont know how many, but around 8) and then you either play through them, hold them, or skip...
    when I skip through every team in the 'batch' twice, it should send me a new 'batch'. I don't mind hitting level 200 guys, but I don't have the roster to take on 290/240/240.

    edit: imo, bringing up queuing easy teams while shielded as a common issue is perfectly legitimate since the original issue had to do with end match points not equaling the originally indicated points in the queue. never queue up teams and let them sit unless you know they will be either the same or higher than when you queued them. that is a good way to start with a 40 pt match and get 12 out of it. only had to happen a couple of times for me to realize I needed to cycle through to current conditions - I just wish if you skipped enough, they sent you a new group.
  • Esheris
    Esheris Posts: 216 Tile Toppler
    The fix could be simple without loading the server, just give the amount of points that are qued instead of changing the amount halfway through battle. ^.^
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I'm just going to keep quoting it until someone actually reads it.
    Ralstonator wrote:
    If I find a battle worth 46 points, immediately attack the guy and end up getting 25, this is already a much bigger discrepancy in points than normal as it is, but when I immediately start looking for the next fight and right away find the exact same guy who still says 46 on him, then attack him immediately and get 25 again, I'm pretty sure that guy did not get attacked so much that he dropped to a 25, but then fought back and got back up to being worth 46, then was attacked again all the way down to being 25, all in the space of the 4 minutes it took me to beat him twice. I mean I've sat there and attacked the same guy 4 times in a row before and not seen their value drop by half that much. His point value was clearly being misreported.

    **** like that is NOT explained by point lag. Please, keep arguing against it for no reason though. It only helps keep the thread at the top.
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    Ralstonator wrote:
    I'm just going to keep quoting it until someone actually reads it.
    Ralstonator wrote:
    If I find a battle worth 46 points, immediately attack the guy and end up getting 25, this is already a much bigger discrepancy in points than normal as it is, but when I immediately start looking for the next fight and right away find the exact same guy who still says 46 on him, then attack him immediately and get 25 again, I'm pretty sure that guy did not get attacked so much that he dropped to a 25, but then fought back and got back up to being worth 46, then was attacked again all the way down to being 25, all in the space of the 4 minutes it took me to beat him twice. I mean I've sat there and attacked the same guy 4 times in a row before and not seen their value drop by half that much. His point value was clearly being misreported.

    tinykitty like that is NOT explained by point lag.

    The thing is it CAN be explained by point lag. Well, point lag combined with bad MM bubbles where you were sent multiple copies of the same opponent. Ive had that happen on multiple occasions, both before and after the point change (apologies to those Ive hit over and over).
    Esheris wrote:
    The fix could be simple without loading the server, just give the amount of points that are qued instead of changing the amount halfway through battle. ^.^

    Go read Tannen's illustration on page 1 of this thread to see the potential nasty complications from doing it that way (without storing/checking BOTH numbers).
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    MarvelMan wrote:
    The thing is it CAN be explained by point lag. Well, point lag combined with bad MM bubbles where you were sent multiple copies of the same opponent.

    Right, and I'm not asking for all standard point lag to be abolished, so in theory they could take a look at the one, separate problem and fix it without touching the point system or altering common point lag at all, hm? I'm not gonna hold my breath on that happening, but they should at least be made aware of it.
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    Ralstonator wrote:
    MarvelMan wrote:
    The thing is it CAN be explained by point lag. Well, point lag combined with bad MM bubbles where you were sent multiple copies of the same opponent.

    Right, and I'm not asking for all standard point lag to be abolished, so in theory they could take a look at the one, separate problem and fix it without touching the point system or altering common point lag at all, hm? I'm not gonna hold my breath on that happening, but they should at least be made aware of it.

    I agree the scenario you mention seems a bit drastic, but not really seeing the secondary issue. Unless youre referring to the multiple copies of the same opp within a batch? And that DEFINITELY needs attention.....but that has been around for MONTHS (through multiple MM updates even) so your strategy of not holding your breath seems prudent. =)
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    Esheris wrote:
    The fix could be simple without loading the server, just give the amount of points that are qued instead of changing the amount halfway through battle. ^.^

    Problem with that solution is it would affect alot of us who save low point nodes for later when they will be worth more.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ralstonator wrote:
    tinykitty like that is NOT explained by point lag.
    It's already been explained to you how it can be.

    This thread is the poster child for why we need the thumbs down button back. This **** could've been wrapped up in less than 10 posts after a couple of well-deserved -5s. Instead it's just going to go on and on and on, because some people are too thick-headed to understand the explanations they're being given, and everyone else is too stubborn to let thick-headed people get the last word.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    ...and everyone else is too stubborn to let thick-headed people get the last word.
    truer words...
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    simonsez wrote:
    This *MarvelMan is the poster child for <snip> too stubborn to let thick-headed people get the last word.

    FTFY


    Edit: Note that Im only mocking myself here.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    With regards to the point difference question. Very late in events you can queue someone that shows to be worth 46 points. However, your slow in your match or hit them after they have been out for too long. Your target will have lost a lot of points during your match against them. So it would not be correct to award you the 46 points when said player had dropped significantly before you completed your match. This is not a bug.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked wrote:
    With regards to the point difference question. Very late in events you can queue someone that shows to be worth 46 points. However, your slow in your match or hit them after they have been out for too long. Your target will have lost a lot of points during your match against them. So it would not be correct to award you the 46 points when said player had dropped significantly before you completed your match. This is not a bug.
    fwiw, imo the points should be known at the beginning of the match and not change. the system should check after you hit the first yellow 'fight' button and the points should be updated to current at that point and that should be the points you get. I understand the system in place, but think it could be better - regardless of added pings to the server. imo it would be worth it to know.
  • Esheris
    Esheris Posts: 216 Tile Toppler
    acescracked wrote:
    Esheris wrote:
    The fix could be simple without loading the server, just give the amount of points that are qued instead of changing the amount halfway through battle. ^.^

    Problem with that solution is it would affect alot of us who save low point nodes for later when they will be worth more.

    Oops! I should have elborated more, the points would still work the same (still fluctuating all day or however long you have them qued). But when you go to attack them you get the amount of points you would have at the beginning of the fight. Instead of having it change midbattle if that person was gaining/losing points.

    Not trying to get in any arguements, I just know from personal experience that having the correct points would have helped a ton. ^_^

    But if everyone likes to have random points, then oh well I guess this game will stay totally random!
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    Esheris wrote:
    I should have elborated more, the points would still work the same (still fluctuating all day or however long you have them qued). But when you go to attack them you get the amount of points you would have at the beginning of the fight. Instead of having it change midbattle if that person was gaining/losing points.

    You're wishing for an extra server check for current points be preformed at one of the prebattle screens?

    Seems nice, I know Id like to know current value but Im *guessing* it would cause extra data and server load....which they have mentioned as issues in the past.
  • Esheris
    Esheris Posts: 216 Tile Toppler
    MarvelMan wrote:
    Esheris wrote:
    I should have elborated more, the points would still work the same (still fluctuating all day or however long you have them qued). But when you go to attack them you get the amount of points you would have at the beginning of the fight. Instead of having it change midbattle if that person was gaining/losing points.

    You're wishing for an extra server check for current points be preformed at one of the prebattle screens?

    Seems nice, I know Id like to know current value but Im *guessing* it would cause extra data and server load....which they have mentioned as issues in the past.

    I guess I'm asking for too much, I wouldn't want to put strain on the servers. I guess it's better to have it sort of work than not at all.

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