Unforseen consiquence of boosted point scoring.

Dragon_Nexus

I'm on day 509 of playing this game and for the first time ever I hit every progression reward in PvP. Finally got my first blue Thor cover and shielded at 1000 points.
When the event ended, I was 44th.

I'm honestly not sure how to feel about this. It feels negative to me. Sure, it's easier to get the 4* progression reward now, but it's much, much harder to get the placement reward at the end. I'm not even sure how possible it'll be to get 1000 points in the next event because my Bullseye has 3 covers, so he's going to be an easy target. I think my Captain Marvel team only did so well because she's level 148 unbuffed. It's just as well my Grocket is maxed out so I don't need to place well. But on the days I *need* the reward, getting well into the 1100 mark is going to be a stretch.

Not to mention after going to sleep with about 800 points, I woke up and found I'd lost 298. Yes, 298 points...so clearly shielding has become *more* important. I almost didn't make it to 1000 but I bought some health packs so that I could. Only the second time ever. I felt kinda dirty afterwards =S

What do you guys think? Is it better that it's easier to hit the 4* reward but harder to place well? Before I'd hit 800 if I was lucky and easilly finish top 25. I'm not sure if that helped me more or not.

DFiPL

Boosted point totals are going to increase what you need to place well, yes. If everybody can earn more points, more points are going to be necessary.

But here's the thing: it isn't necessarily taking you more fights to reach that new level. You're reaching old milestones much faster, so winning the same number of fights is probably going to leave you in a comparable place to what might have been previously required. Maybe lower, because people who previously couldn't reach particular rewards might now play more fights than they used to because holy **** I can reach 725 points for a third Hero Point reward? GOGOGO

or whatever other reward is in their grasp which never used to be.

The "unintended consequence" of more people being able to chase progressions is that some of those people will discover an extra tier of ambition once they see the possibilities and those who have been used to sitting at the top will have to adapt to the influx of challengers.

But I don't think that's unintended at all. If you increase the pool of "people who can do well in PVP," more people are going to play PVP. Pursuing that goal shouldn't have "maintaining the status quo atop the leaderboards" as its aim. That could well be the OUTCOME, but you don't go into a major rework like that going "okay how can we make this more accessible for people who don't play it as much while preserving progressions AND placement rewards for those at the top"?

Buret0

It isn't harder to place well... everyone is going to be working with the same new rules as you are.

Getting to 1000 is easier, so shielding at 1000 and calling it a day is going to be about as effective as getting to 750 and calling it a day under the old system.

Considering the top ten in my first Top Gun slice was between 1200 and 1733, it means that SOMEONE has found a way to climb faster in the new system than when retreat boosting was an option.

Yes, you are going to have to get to the 1000 progression reward and then keep going if you want a top ten score or you can be happy about getting to the 1000 progression more easily and just accepting that instead.

That being said, if 1000 points is less work, you should still be able to get above 1000 points with the same amount of work that it used to take to get to 1000, right?

Unknown

I am very happy that the 1000 progression is easier to get to.
Even though I couldn't make it It IS there though! I could taste it! (973 points smacked down to 845).
Attainable progression awards will breath new life into PvP. *thumbsup

Vhailorx

I think it's six of one and a half dozen of the other.

Placement rewards are a bit harder to get, but the 800 and 1k progs are easier (assuming those levels don't change).

So it's probably cover neutral overall, but spread out over multiple characters (1 for top 100, 1 for 800 points and one for 1k).

That is an improvement for people with mostly full 3* rosters who want to get 4*s, but may be annoying for those who are still trying to build their 3* bench.

Dragon_Nexus

Buret0 wrote:

Getting to 1000 is easier, so shielding at 1000 and calling it a day is going to be about as effective as getting to 750 and calling it a day under the old system.

Personally I found about 750 was where I'd stop unless I was in a highly contested bracket. Usually the 750-800 mark got me a comfortable 25th place.

I kinda struggled to reach the 1000. Like I said, I needed to buy health packs to carry on for that one last fight I needed to go from 940 to 1000. I do very much like the new score system, don't get me wrong. It gives a much better sense of progression getting 40-60 points per match rather than slowly crawling up with 20 point matches over and over.
Still, I got hammered pretty hard by the attacks over night. 298 was insane...never seen that before. I was getting hit for 20-30 points, too. I thought the defense losses were lowered? Eh, maybe they are and people were getting 60 points from beating me.

But yeah, overall I do like the change. It'll just be trickier to get the placement rewards from now on.

puppychow

Seeing all those crewsaders with 2,000 points in marvel event, it's obvious scoring inflation means you need to keep pushing past 1,000 to keep up with the placement. I personally don't mind seeing more players reach 1,000 point barrier, because it creates incentive for people to buy slots to keep those 4* covers. So now it becomes a bean counting issue for D3 management---does the sale of slots adequately replace loss of revenue from reduced sales of cover packs? If D3 decides to require more points to get the last reward, we'll have our answer.

Personally, I find myself spending more hp in order to secure my 1,000 points for the progression reward. Before the change, it was near impossible for me to do so. But then again, if I'm spending less than 2,500 hp on the event, then I still come out ahead.

Nellyson

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Buret0 wrote:

Getting to 1000 is easier, so shielding at 1000 and calling it a day is going to be about as effective as getting to 750 and calling it a day under the old system.

Personally I found about 750 was where I'd stop unless I was in a highly contested bracket. Usually the 750-800 mark got me a comfortable 25th place.

I kinda struggled to reach the 1000. Like I said, I needed to buy health packs to carry on for that one last fight I needed to go from 940 to 1000. I do very much like the new score system, don't get me wrong. It gives a much better sense of progression getting 40-60 points per match rather than slowly crawling up with 20 point matches over and over.
Still, I got hammered pretty hard by the attacks over night. 298 was insane...never seen that before. I was getting hit for 20-30 points, too. I thought the defense losses were lowered? Eh, maybe they are and people were getting 60 points from beating me.

But yeah, overall I do like the change. It'll just be trickier to get the placement rewards from now on.

They were lowered from before, but with the point increases, so does the point loss increase. Makes me wonder what they're gonna do going forward. I really hope they keep the progressions where they are at. I like having the 4 star character finally be available without having to coordinate outside the game and shield at the proper time and try to figure out when people with points are unshielded so I can queue them up......losing all that unnecessary work will be greatly appreciated. Besides, don't they want the transition into 4 star land to be easier? This solves that. I'm fine with huge point loses if unshielded. That's just the new risk, but easier 1K and I'll take that risk every time!

simonsez

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Sure, it's easier to get the 4* progression reward now, but it's much, much harder to get the placement reward at the end.

I'm very happy to get 4*s at the expense of 3*s

Unknown

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Buret0 wrote:

Getting to 1000 is easier, so shielding at 1000 and calling it a day is going to be about as effective as getting to 750 and calling it a day under the old system.

Personally I found about 750 was where I'd stop unless I was in a highly contested bracket. Usually the 750-800 mark got me a comfortable 25th place.

I kinda struggled to reach the 1000. Like I said, I needed to buy health packs to carry on for that one last fight I needed to go from 940 to 1000. I do very much like the new score system, don't get me wrong. It gives a much better sense of progression getting 40-60 points per match rather than slowly crawling up with 20 point matches over and over.
Still, I got hammered pretty hard by the attacks over night. 298 was insane...never seen that before. I was getting hit for 20-30 points, too. I thought the defense losses were lowered? Eh, maybe they are and people were getting 60 points from beating me.

But yeah, overall I do like the change. It'll just be trickier to get the placement rewards from now on.

Whaaaat 750 usually puts me in like 80th- 90th
It seems like everytime I start to climb higher than that a group of people with scores of 50 defeat me and i end up losing like 200

Unknown

I don't get what's the deal with complaining about placement. If you used to get 700, for the same effort that might be a 900 and it'll probably be a simliar placement. Unless you're someone who is too cheap to shield (like me) it's still going to take approximately the same effort for your placement because it's not like your opponents have suddenly become stronger or weaker. It feels kind of weird to have a 1K score plummet to nothing but if you didn't care about shielding before you still shouldn't care now, and if it's an event with a 3* prize I care about I always had to do more than just play to some preset level and forget about the event anyway. Maybe the competition for the top 5 becomes more intense, but they've always been pretty heated.

The only question I have is what does D3 plan on doing with what seems to be wholesale giveaways with 4* relative to their revenue model, or maybe the answer is that they don't actually have a plan, and in that case if they can't figure out how to make money then I certainly won't say no to the easy 4* covers either.

Dragon_Nexus

simonsez wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Sure, it's easier to get the 4* progression reward now, but it's much, much harder to get the placement reward at the end.

I'm very happy to get 4*s at the expense of 3*s

At the stage I'm at, yes, I'd mostly agree with that. Certainly the last cycle of Deadpool I realised I was converting 90% of the final rewards into 500 ISO.
I need the 3* covers for the newer guys though, and without a suitably levelled 3* it's harder to progress in the PvP. I don't think I'm going to get to 1000 with my level 93 boosted Bullseye, for example.

Eh, swings and roundabouts I guess

dfields3710

I don't like the new point system. Even though, I hit 850 progression the lost is annoying 5 people can hit me for 200 points. I was at 850 and dropped to 437 because 24 people hit me overnight. I was T25 and had to settle at 93. I use all of my hero coins for more slots so I don't shield. And the way MPQ is going I don't plan on spending money on this game ever again. Honestly what was the point of lowering the lost if they were just going to raise it again if someone beats you. I'm just upset and this probably the only time I'm going to be able to get Grocket other than lucky token pull and 300+ days daily resupply.

Argon Flame

I think it is also compounded with the reduction in defensive win points. Unfortunately they've made the classic error of changing too many things at once and won't be able to assess the impact of either change in isolation.

Dragon_Nexus

Argon Flame wrote:

I think it is also compounded with the reduction in defensive win points. Unfortunately they've made the classic error of changing too many things at once and won't be able to assess the impact of either change in isolation.

That sounds very true.
Wait, so the reduction was in defense point wins? There was no change to defense point losses? Huh, I obviously read it wrong. That sounds a little backwards to me to reduce one and not the other.

Argon Flame

There was a loophole in the scoring system that allowed players to coordinate to gain lots of points very quickly, by intentionally losing to one another. We’ve closed that loophole by reducing the amount of points gained from a defensive win to ⅓ of what it was previously. The defender currently wins in a Versus match only about 10% of the time, so this has a small impact on players who weren’t intentionally losing to one another. We’re taking that into account with the next change:

Changes we made to Versus matchmaking in Season XIII increased average Versus fight times by about 30%. We want to reduce the time that it takes to climb the leaderboards and add some additional points into the system to make up for those lost from the change to how defensive wins are scored. We’re increasing the points value of each Versus mission by 50%.

Now you only win 1/3 of the points you would previously have gotten for a defensive win. I am not sure that this was the best method of curbing the exploit in the MMR. Having players lose more for losses could be a method. Also more logic in the MMR to have a larger pool of opponents to queue (so you cannot simply chain lose to a friend/ally) could have been a more elegant and balanced response.

SnowcaTT

Really random brackets, I hit 11th with 1034 and had a team-mate with basically the same score that missed T50.

Also my first 1K, rarely did I hit 800 before. If I can get an extra 3* cover and maybe a 4* cover for every or most events, I'll gladly take "only" T100.

TxMoose

I will happily trade t25 for possibilities at 800 or 1000 progressions. never made 800 before but could have in the marvel event were it not for a mistake on my part. offensive losses hurt bad. still made t100 with 730 but man it was tough and my roster and health packs were completely wiped after my push.

I imagine the 800 progression is easier if you have a covered/leveled featured, so not sure how much that will actually do for me, but chances at a 4* when I hit an event I think is worth hopping - I'm looking forward to shooting for it.

Malcrof

here is my question to add.. I am currently hitting over 700 in every PVP (yay!) which my former cap used to be 600 or so (still guaranteeing top 100).. i finished last season with 5500 points.

I really need a red cover for IMHB, mine is at 0/3/3... i was going to see about merc'ing out at the end of the season..

is 6k or so going to be enough for anyone to take me so i can get the cover??

Unknown

Do you guys think the increased points system is going to result in them readjusting the progression awards too since it seems people are able to hit 1000 a lot easier than before?

Malcrof

mango_sentinel wrote:

Do you guys think the increased points system is going to result in them readjusting the progression awards too since it seems people are able to hit 1000 a lot easier than before?

This may be there way to ease the 4* transition. It makes every PVP a mini deadpool, just without waves..