New MMR changes mean that defensive wins are pointless

Tarouza

Literally

http://i.imgur.com/6t5qcPm.jpg

Unknown

Tarouza wrote:

Literally

http://i.imgur.com/6t5qcPm.jpg

How many points are you sitting at?

Tarouza

930 till the end

Aidonis

So you would like to gain points at 930...because your team beat a person at 325....

Really?

Like for realz? Man.

PuceMoose

In fairness, it would be nice if it had offered at least *1* point for the defensive win - defensive wins are uncommon enough (at least for me) that it's nice to see a bonus, however small, for someone falling to my team. I've had my 166/200+ featured/166 taken down by 94 Storm/94 Magneto/70 loaner enough to appreciate the happiness that comes with even a tiny up-bump in points from a defensive win.

Dauthi

Tarouza wrote:

Literally

http://i.imgur.com/6t5qcPm.jpg

If I am in the process of climbing to 1k I would love to see +0 vs -70, so I wouldn't say pointless.

Defensive wins after being shielded never usually gave much anyways.

rubix_qube

I have a bigger problem with someone at 300 being able to queue up someone at 900+ or higher.

Eddiemon

rubix_qube wrote:

I have a bigger problem with someone at 300 being able to queue up someone at 900+ or higher.

Possibly. But then again the match could have been made 24 hours ago when they were on par and the attacker next played just now.

simonsez

Aidonis wrote:

So you would like to gain points at 930...because your team beat a person at 325....

Really?

Like for realz? Man.

Three points:

It's hardly fair for someone's battle outcome to be either +0 or -75.
Just because the guy had 325 doesn't mean he wasn't fielding a maxed Falcon/HB/Fist.
Saying stuff like "for realz" never helps amplify a comment.

Tarouza

His roster was actually even with mine maybe a little better, so I shouldn't get points for winning because i chose to play earlier then he did that doesn't make much sense

Eddiemon

Tarouza wrote:

His roster was actually even with mine maybe a little better, so I shouldn't get points for winning because i chose to play earlier then he did that doesn't make much sense

It makes perfect sense. The system we play in is based on points in the current event. You don't get bonus or penalty points based on roster quality, or on when or how you acquired the points. It's a fairly simple system so I am surprised that it doesn't make sense to you.

grunth13

Aidonis wrote:

So you would like to gain points at 930...because your team beat a person at 325....

Really?

Like for realz? Man.

It's not like he attacked the 325 opponent. He was attacked and won...he deserved the points.

Unknown

grunth13 wrote:

Aidonis wrote:

So you would like to gain points at 930...because your team beat a person at 325....

Really?

Like for realz? Man.

It's not like he attacked the 325 opponent. He was attacked and won...he deserved the points.

Not sure how this part of the current normal is supposed to work, but I'm really wishing I wasn't winning defenses for 4 points and losing for 40+...

DBC

SnowcaTT

grunth13 wrote:

Aidonis wrote:

So you would like to gain points at 930...because your team beat a person at 325....

It's not like he attacked the 325 opponent. He was attacked and won...he deserved the points.

The 325 opponent shouldn't be able to see a 930. I've always thought that the best way to find people in your "tier" would be to limit the folks you see to + or - 100 points within your current point range. Maybe this was an attempted retaliation or queue before the OP went to 930, otherwise shouldn't have been in same range to attack.

cuviper

What if they removed defensive point changes altogether? So points are only gained or lost due to your own ability on offense, not the AI playing your team poorly. I know there's some strategy to choosing defensive teams that the AI won't screw up, but that feels like a poor hack to me.

And/or, what if points were never reduced, only gained from wins? I think most competitive sports are scored this way -- are there any real-world examples where a point gain also knocks the opponent down? You already take a penalty in having characters KOed anyway.

If nothing else, I guess either of these changes would kill the shield income for D3. Maybe income from health packs would increase?

Unknown

I posted this in the announcement section, but I will post here as well as an update for the Captain Marvel event. The current system is stupid. In the falcon event, I was sitting at 975 points on shield. I went to shield hop and in a single (1, uno) 4 minute match I lost 200 points. I tried to get back to 900 but due to constant attacks from people sub 300 points I never made it. Ended up with 680 points for the event (when I couldn't get back to 900 I decided paying for a shield would be a waste of hp).

Queue up next event Captain Marvel. I get to 925 points. Shield. I go to shield hop again. This time I was in a 3:45 second match (I am a bit insane and actually time matches against the boosted characters to get a general sense of how long it takes to beat a boosted team, for shield hops). In 3:45 I was attacked by 6 people under 300 points and lost 267 points. In 3 minutes and 45 seconds... That is less time than I spent typing and checking this post for spelling errors.

I understand that I run the risk of losing a match when I break shield, but I shouldn't lose so many points that I cannot possible recover. There is 31 hours left on my pvp and I don't think I will be attempting to push again.

Eddiemon

cuviper wrote:

And/or, what if points were never reduced, only gained from wins? I think most competitive sports are scored this way -- are there any real-world examples where a point gain also knocks the opponent down? You already take a penalty in having characters KOed anyway.

In almost every sport a point gain knocks the opponent down. The difference here is that it is assymetric. In any sport where there are say 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw and zero for a loss the losing team loses all potential points for that match, so they end up behind everyone else.

The issue is that all those sports are symmetric with a limited league of games. In order for my team to get 3 points in the match yours has to get zero. There is no option for us to both get 3. Whereas here there is asymmetry, my beating you doesn't use up that match on the fixture, and you can come back and beat me later. So that penalty of no points from a finite fixture converts into negative points from an essentially infinite set of fixtures.

Dudemon

As a fairly new player that sucks at PVP, I kinda like the new format.

I don't get attacked as much and it's easier to regain losses with just a few wins.

Perhaps the point spread is higher and there aren't as many big hitters clustered around me. Don't know. I do know I'm doing about 100% better point-wise than before.

More progressions are also in reach. Works for me.

TxMoose

Dudemon wrote:

As a fairly new player that sucks at PVP, I kinda like the new format.

I don't get attacked as much and it's easier to regain losses with just a few wins.

Perhaps the point spread is higher and there aren't as many big hitters clustered around me. Don't know. I do know I'm doing about 100% better point-wise than before.

More progressions are also in reach. Works for me.

as long as your goal is ~300, the current system is very favorable - initial climb to 300 is literally just a few matches. opponents then get more difficult and lower roster teams quit and sit there satisfied. once you develop your roster and start climbing above 600, it is much different.

Unknown

cuviper wrote:

What if they removed defensive point changes altogether? So points are only gained or lost due to your own ability on offense, not the AI playing your team poorly. I know there's some strategy to choosing defensive teams that the AI won't screw up, but that feels like a poor hack to me.

Exactly. The reason I don't play PVP much is because so much of the outcome depends on letting the AI play your team for you, and that means I have a very limited roster that can actually win a match when I'm playing it and still be able to win with the AI playing (or more likely, just looking intimidating enough for people not to try). It's never made sense to me that the horrifically bad AI is responsible for a significant number of my point loss. Like I would win 30 points only to finish and see that I'd lost 75 more from 5+ losses in the time it took to play that match.

minionruush

new point system is good for everyone. I am at a max 2* with 2/2/5 kamala for 3* support. with the weekly buffed characters I don't mind attacking heavier teams and able to push up to 725 progression awards before the big drop. If more of us are playing then there is more weaker teams to get points from before the heavy teams have to fight themselves.