Is this a joke?

Linkster79

Question for the mods. Is there not a soft delete option in the CP or even a move post option so it could be moved to the "Mod Room" for an overall agreement by the staff members?

As a former Ubi mod and having to moderate things like live chat boxes in their browser games I would have conferred with other staff members and then if needed send a friendly warning in private. What I would not have done is allow a public discussion on why as a moderator I had removed something that had been reported. On pretty much every message board I frequent moderators decision is final.

As for the thread title, yes it is a joke that you feel the need to question authority over such a trivial matter. Do you have to agree with the decision? No of course not but you do have to accept it.

6. We reserve the right to delete any material that we deem inappropriate for our forums (offensive topics, advocating cheating, hack links, insulting others, spoilers, etc.)

Arondite

Linkster79 wrote:

Question for the mods. Is there not a soft delete option in the CP or even a move post option so it could be moved to the "Mod Room" for an overall agreement by the staff members?

As a former Ubi mod and having to moderate things like live chat boxes in their browser games I would have conferred with other staff members and then if needed send a friendly warning in private. What I would not have done is allow a public discussion on why as a moderator I had removed something that had been reported. On pretty much every message board I frequent moderators decision is final.

As for the thread title, yes it is a joke that you feel the need to question authority over such a trivial matter. Do you have to agree with the decision? No of course not but you do have to accept it.

6. We reserve the right to delete any material that we deem inappropriate for our forums (offensive topics, advocating cheating, hack links, insulting others, spoilers, etc.)

Are you the same linkster that used to troll yugiohetc? If so, lol @ giving advice to mods after getting banned by me on a forum (read: a forum with some REALLY relaxed rules).

If not...carry on.

Unknown

MarCr wrote:

DrStrange-616 wrote:

Just wanted to briefly address this. Being a girl who likes comics isn't easy. Most don't take offense at the little stuff. If something does cross the line and someone complains it's seldom well-received. The person speaking out is often labeled as a rabid feminists or worse. So most just keep quiet. It's a lose-lose.

If its any consolation I think most men feel the same, if a few people make sexist/racist comments in a Line room there's usually well over a hundred shaking their head. I know the common feminist point of view is that sexism should be tackled immediately, but most of us realise that entering into discussion with these people on the internet is a fruitless task as you cant argue with an idiot because they'll never know when they've lost.

I disagree to a point. I think you still need to voice it. You are right in the fact that the idiot will not know they have lost, but someone needs to stand up to the bullying.

I said my peace before and I stand by it. The sexist **** that women have to put up with in our community (comic books/geek) needs to stop. If you have to degrade women to feel better about yourself, then something is wrong with you. They are people no different than us. No more no less, it's time we start treating them that way.

Der_Lex

traedoril wrote:

MarCr wrote:

DrStrange-616 wrote:

Just wanted to briefly address this. Being a girl who likes comics isn't easy. Most don't take offense at the little stuff. If something does cross the line and someone complains it's seldom well-received. The person speaking out is often labeled as a rabid feminists or worse. So most just keep quiet. It's a lose-lose.

If its any consolation I think most men feel the same, if a few people make sexist/racist comments in a Line room there's usually well over a hundred shaking their head. I know the common feminist point of view is that sexism should be tackled immediately, but most of us realise that entering into discussion with these people on the internet is a fruitless task as you cant argue with an idiot because they'll never know when they've lost.

I disagree to a point. I think you still need to voice it. You are right in the fact that the idiot will not know they have lost, but someone needs to stand up to the bullying.

I said my peace before and I stand by it. The sexist **** that women have to put up with in our community (comic books/geek) needs to stop. If you have to degrade women to feel better about yourself, then something is wrong with you. They are people no different than us. No more no less, it's time we start treating them that way.

While I agree that a community should feel open and welcome to anyone of any gender, sexuality, creed and color, and that any form of -ism should be stamped out as quickly as possible, I do feel that the MPQ community itself has a pretty egalitarian/positive attitude towards women. In the early days, threads about needing more female characters in the game were met with a lot of agreement (and we're doing pretty well on that front now, I think), the Women of Marvel Month got a lot of positive responses, and several top 100/top 50 alliances, including my own, are being run by female commanders.

Unknown

I think I've yet to see anyone change their point of view because of something someone else said on the internet. If the same thing was said in actual company I would pull them on it, but on the internet, it just isn't worth it. See Gamer Gate as point of reference, no one came out of that looking better than they went in.

Unknown

MarCr wrote:

I think I've yet to see anyone change their point of view because of something someone else said on the internet. If the same thing was said in actual company I would pull them on it, but on the internet, it just isn't worth it. See Gamer Gate as point of reference, no one came out of that looking better than they went in.

You must be going to the wrong sites. I've changed my mind a bunch of times discussing subjects in the Internet. It's one of my favorite things about it.

Unknown

fight4thedream wrote:

I'm actually surprised that this has become an issue and I am genuinely interested in knowing what other members would have done if they were in my position.

I would have deleted that post, and kept this one locked as well. The only point of this thread is to seek validation for having made a poor joke. By complaining about others being as sensitive as he is, the OP has already received 20+ points of reputation from people that see evil feminists everywhere on the internet. I think that should be more than sufficient validation to appease the OP. We can move on now.

Unknown

DrStrange-616 wrote:
Just wanted to briefly address this. Being a girl who likes comics isn't easy. Most don't take offense at the little stuff. If something does cross the line and someone complains it's seldom well-received. The person speaking out is often labeled as a rabid feminists or worse. So most just keep quiet. It's a lose-lose.

To the mods : could you please update the above quote, as I did not write it. The position taken is quite important, so it's only fair the right person is being quoted (besides, the quote has been made numerous times). Thank you.

Requested corrections have been completed. Thanks for pointing it out!

Nooneelsesname

traedoril wrote:

Everything traedoril has written.

Upvoted them, but wanted to emphasize they're aaaaaalllllll correct.

Something really bad here that's being overlooked is two mods making sure we all know that they find sexist "jokes" funny.

So that's another reason for people to feel unwelcome and unwilling to report or comment on behavior that's inappropriate for a public forum.

Der_Lex

Nooneelsesname wrote:

traedoril wrote:

Everything traedoril has written.

Upvoted them, but wanted to emphasize they're aaaaaalllllll correct.

Something really bad here that's being overlooked is two mods making sure we all know that they find sexist "jokes" funny.

So that's another reason for people to feel unwelcome and unwilling to report or comment on behavior that's inappropriate for a public forum.

Yes, let's sanitize any joke that can even remotely be considered risque to appease the easily offended. That's bound to make any forum a more fun place to hang out.

Although I do agree that discussion about moderation decision is best restricted to pm. Having them open for public discussion tends to lead to the pointless back and forths we have seen in this thread (and yes, I do realize I'm participating in that, but what can I say, I'm as opposed to unnecessary censorship as some people here are to anything the consider even remotely sexist).

fight4thedream

Before I lock this thread, I want to thank everyone for their feedback and insight.

I think it's clear that there is no consensus regarding the matter: some people would have done nothing, some people would have spoiler tagged the post, some people would have sent a friendly warning and some people would have deleted it and moved on.

There is a saying where I come from: "You can't please everyone" and I believe this to be true.

The issue for me is less "Was the post sexist?" and more "Did I take appropriate action as a mod?" If you haven't noticed already, each mod on here has their own "mod style" and I prefer to approach things I am not certain about here with more of an open mind and a willingness to learn rather than "These are the rules, you broke one, done."

I am aware that the OP's intent on starting this thread has less to do with rectifying a perceived wrong and more of making a spectacle out of it (otherwise we could have discussed this in PM) but I felt that it was a good opportunity to have the community as a whole take a look at itself and for me to learn what I could have done better.

Obviously, we are not always going to agree and when it comes to humor the potential to offend exists. I didn't particularly find the joke funny but I could see how some people would find it so nor did I particularly find it sexist but again I could understand how some people would feel that it was.

And so here we are at an impasse and a decision has to be made and I made one. If I could change anything, it would have been to simply spoiler tag and place a warning on the post.

We are a community and as a community we are going to have to sometimes compromise. That's just the way it is. I, for one, hope that we can foster an environment that is both welcoming and supportive of women as well as a place where humor, both low brow and high brow, can exist. Perhaps that is being too idealistic but it's what I will strive for.

And on that note, I will once again ask for everyone to be decent with each other and take time to consider the other person's point of view. You might just learn something from it.

GothicKratos

I didn't get a chance to poke my head in here since f4td last commented, so hopefully he doesn't mind me posting, but I just wanted to say that I absolutely do not find any form of discrimination funny. Discriminatory behavior is not funny. It's not a joke. It's a real thing that exists every single day for millions of people (African, Caucasian, Hispanic, Asian, Homosexual, Pansexual, Bisexual, Bulimic, Anorexic, Depressed, Manic, Male, Female, Cis, Trans, etc.) and it's not something to take lightly. People literally lose their life, both directly or indirectly, both by their own hands or by the hands of other, because of discrimination.

However, there is a (admittedly thin) line between something being "demeaning" and being discriminatory. His comment wasn't sexist. It was a comment in the vein of objectification. Objectification is not a great thing, either, of course, but it is a part of how normal human beings handle things. In the current situation, the joke was about someone being "an **** man". It is a piggish comment? Yes, however, it's a pretty clear reference to a very comment reference to a person's preference on psychical traits. People can be objectified whether they are male or female - it just so happened that in this case it was a fictional female character. It's a pretty normal part of society (and arguably written within our DNA) to segregate our peers by traits we find valuable or invaluable.

In closing, I would like to point out the act of laughing at a joke (or telling a joke that) does not make you "sexist" or "bigot" or what-have-you. I find jokes targeting males funny - does that make me sexist towards my own gender? I find jokes about Caucasians amusing - does that make me a racist towards my own race? I find jokes about Cis people amusing - does that make me a bigot against my gender positioning? Of course not.

When trying to label someone as "sexist" or something similar, it is important to take intent and context into question.