Was MagStorm nerfed?

edited May 2015 in MPQ Tips and Guides
daibar wrote:
simonsez wrote:
daibar wrote:
A crit nearly half the time it goes off is not bad odds.
The only thing is that I could swear that the tile gets placed on an edge more often than dictated by random chance.

That's actually one of the best outcomes as it clusters the purples even tighter. Her countdown on an edge has an excellent chance to crit, as long as it's not in the corner. I posted this in another thread and forgot to migrate it back here:
On the left edge, it automatically collapses into this shape (at least a match-3).
none.pngpurpletile.png
purpletile.pngpurpletile.png
purpletile.pngpurpletile.png

So, if any one of these tiles are purple, you've a 100% chance at a crit.
purpletile.pngblacktile.pngbluetile.png
yellowtile.pngyellowtile.pngbluetile.png
countdown.pngyellowtile.pngpurpletile.png
yellowtile.pngyellowtile.pngpurpletile.png
purpletile.pngblacktile.pngbluetile.png
If instead any of those black tiles are a purple, you've got a line clear. Both blacks are purple => crit. If all tiles are random, you've got at least a 1 - ((6/7)^4* (48/49)) >= 47.1% chance

On the bottom, it collapses into this shape:
purpletile.pngnone.pngpurpletile.png
purpletile.pngpurpletile.pngpurpletile.png

Giving you at least a match 3, and 3 spots where a purple makes a crit:
bluetile.pngpurpletile.pngpurpletile.pngpurpletile.pngbluetile.png
bluetile.pngyellowtile.pngyellowtile.pngyellowtile.pngbluetile.png
blacktile.pngyellowtile.pngcountdown.pngyellowtile.pngblacktile.png
Again, any purple makes a crit 100% of the time, both blacks make a crit 100%, 1 - ((6/7)^3* (48/49)) >= 38.3% chance of a crit

I've had decent success in moving nearby purples into the right position to make a crit. Doesn't happen all the time, but you can definitely increase the odds of chaos working in your favor. A >26.5% chance of making a line clear when the countdown is on the edge isn't too bad either (1 - (6/7)^2)

I seriously don't think she'll get a buff unless it's in terms of a 'fix' where the stun is done after the damage on her purple.
raisinbman wrote:
they're not gonna buff her AOE - look at what they did to Magstorm
Magstorm was never the issue, it was magstique.
No, the issue was Winfinite, according to them. But all they had to do was change Mystique. Which they didn't. They changed both.

if Mystique was the issue nerf her.

There's subtext in what they do.

They could've left Mag alone but they didn't.

Meanwhile, GSBW does the same thing as Mag, yet she remains untouched.

They targetting Mag.

It's obvious they disliked Magstorm as much as Winfinite.

Thusly, we're not going to get Wanda Magstorming (almost) all by herself anytime soon.
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Comments

  • Have you actually tried Magstorm since the change? It still works fine, plus you can use MNM's red to collect blue now much easier. And they didn't change Storm at all. No, they have no beef with Magstorm.

    I'd like to compare Wanda's damage to a 150 Storm Windstorm. I think that might shed some light on how well balanced Wanda's purple really is. The random vs targeted stun is actually a drawback, so Wanda's damage should be higher to compensate.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    Have you actually tried Magstorm since the change? It still works fine, plus you can use MNM's red to collect blue now much easier. And they didn't change Storm at all. No, they have no beef with Magstorm.

    I'd like to compare Wanda's damage to a 150 Storm Windstorm. I think that might shed some light on how well balanced Wanda's purple really is. The random vs targeted stun is actually a drawback, so Wanda's damage should be higher to compensate.
    there is no magstorm after the change. It's like pre-roids Baseball vs roidball

    I don't give a tinykitty about red in magstorm

    There's MagCap, Magnarok(maybe)

    Yes, they have beef with Magstorm. Why would they make the change otherwise? Storm and many other 2* players are worse off.

    PS: They don't have to make a change to storm to make her weaker. It's a 3v3 game.
    150 Storm will easily overtake Wanda at 166; but in a direct breakdown:

    2* Storm @ 94: 11 bluetile.png -- 1838, target lead off character for 4 Stun.
    Wanda @ 166: 14 purpletile.png -- 2,198 with a randomly assigned 5 Stun that may very well target a downed character.

    Wanda was billed as the "better Storm," which is fine. I mentioned before I didn't have a problem with the random Stun assignment, my problem is random Stun to a downed target. I recognize the poster before me (sorry, honestly too tired & lazy to scroll, but consider this credit) saying that the decision was to avoid certain combinations of events, but IMHE it doesn't add up, the power should function as Storm's does -- down your target, freeze the second, focus on the 3rd (or if it's Hulk, Alpha Strike him). Whether they make that "Stun target with Highest Health" or "Stun Target with Strongest Aggregated AP" is not material to me; what matters is that she stop stunning dead people.

    Second, they didn't (I'm uncertain why people keep saying this icon_e_confused.gif ) nerf MagStorm; they nerfed Magstique, because her random Purple/Black generation was often sufficient for Magneto to create 5 blue... which was sufficient to trigger... and so on. That was the issue. There's still plenty of efficacy around his purple and in fact (and I may be crazy, that's cool) I prefer the new version. It now has the potential to fuel both powers and does so in grand fashion. I can actually use my 3 Iron Hammer/5 Polarity Shift/5 Magnetic Flux build and see Magnetic Flux more than once every three matches. Joy!

    they nerfed magstorm. If you order a hamburger and they say 'we're out of hamburgers, but here's a chicken sandwich', sure you could like it and it's similar, but it's not a hamburger.

    Then again you're actually using Magnetic flux so all of this is actually a moot point.
  • Boosted, I believe CStorm does 2588 damage, so CStorm's more effected boosted than SW not boosted.

    I do agree that Magstorm was a minor problem for D3. People would take that team in and crush nodes, not bothering to invest in many other 2*s. People say Magstorm was nerfed because it was nerfed; don't want to rehash the character thread, but it's here. It still 'works', but it's just not as good and you'll take more damage. Same with Magstique (I refuse to call that combo winfinite because you could and often did lose to high level match damage, and it wasn't always infinite). It still works, but now it's slower and in the time it takes to set up, you could have lost the match or set up some other more powerful combo with other characters.

    Using SW as a tiny blue battery is interesting. I'd love to try to use her with Mystique as well, but SW eats health packs when I bring her out.
  • LuciferianXLuciferianX Age Unconfirmed Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    We're off topic from Wanda, but (he said devilishly) I do disagree. I concede it isn't as automatic as it once was (create 2 4 chains & a 3, whatever) but it still functions just fine. Yes, I may have to wait a turn for the board to be optimal, but if I see two blue within a cardinal match, that's 3. There's usually two of those, so that's six. And if there's another in a line, or I can manipulate circumstances to create that, that's 8. True, it isn't an instant critical match and it requires a little more finesse, but it does work.

    Totally willing to concede it isn't the same and it may not work for you (just reiterating for the record) but I still get plenty of mileage out of it. YMMV.
  • raisinbman wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    Have you actually tried Magstorm since the change? It still works fine, plus you can use MNM's red to collect blue now much easier. And they didn't change Storm at all. No, they have no beef with Magstorm.

    I'd like to compare Wanda's damage to a 150 Storm Windstorm. I think that might shed some light on how well balanced Wanda's purple really is. The random vs targeted stun is actually a drawback, so Wanda's damage should be higher to compensate.
    there is no magstorm after the change. It's like pre-roids Baseball vs roidball

    I don't give a tinykitty about red in magstorm

    There's MagCap, Magnarok(maybe)

    Yes, they have beef with Magstorm. Why would they make the change otherwise? Storm and many other 2* players are worse off.

    PS: They don't have to make a change to storm to make her weaker. It's a 3v3 game.

    So that is a no then. Stop complaining about what you clearly do not understand. Magstorm still works perfectly fine at the 2* level.
    raisinbman wrote:
    they nerfed magstorm. If you order a hamburger and they say 'we're out of hamburgers, but here's a chicken sandwich', sure you could like it and it's similar, but it's not a hamburger.

    Then again you're actually using Magnetic flux so all of this is actually a moot point.

    It's more like you goto your favorite burger joint to find out they have a new recipe. It's different, but still good, and most definitely still a burger.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    Have you actually tried Magstorm since the change? It still works fine, plus you can use MNM's red to collect blue now much easier. And they didn't change Storm at all. No, they have no beef with Magstorm.

    I'd like to compare Wanda's damage to a 150 Storm Windstorm. I think that might shed some light on how well balanced Wanda's purple really is. The random vs targeted stun is actually a drawback, so Wanda's damage should be higher to compensate.
    there is no magstorm after the change. It's like pre-roids Baseball vs roidball

    I don't give a tinykitty about red in magstorm

    There's MagCap, Magnarok(maybe)

    Yes, they have beef with Magstorm. Why would they make the change otherwise? Storm and many other 2* players are worse off.

    PS: They don't have to make a change to storm to make her weaker. It's a 3v3 game.

    So that is a no then. Stop complaining about what you clearly do not understand. Magstorm still works perfectly fine at the 2* level.
    raisinbman wrote:
    they nerfed magstorm. If you order a hamburger and they say 'we're out of hamburgers, but here's a chicken sandwich', sure you could like it and it's similar, but it's not a hamburger.

    Then again you're actually using Magnetic flux so all of this is actually a moot point.

    It's more like you goto your favorite burger joint to find out they have a new recipe. It's different, but still good, and most definitely still a burger.
    I understand it completely, but y'know what, enjoy being on ignore.

    Perfectly fine does not equal the same or greater.

    No, it is NOT still a burger, it is NOT still good.
  • raisinbman wrote:

    Perfectly fine does not equal the same or greater.

    No, it is NOT still a burger, it is NOT still good.
    That's the most xenophobic thing I've ever read
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    We're off topic from Wanda, but (he said devilishly) I do disagree. I concede it isn't as automatic as it once was (create 2 4 chains & a 3, whatever) but it still functions just fine. Yes, I may have to wait a turn for the board to be optimal, but if I see two blue within a cardinal match, that's 3. There's usually two of those, so that's six. And if there's another in a line, or I can manipulate circumstances to create that, that's 8. True, it isn't an instant critical match and it requires a little more finesse, but it does work.

    Totally willing to concede it isn't the same and it may not work for you (just reiterating for the record) but I still get plenty of mileage out of it. YMMV.

    Yeah, I'm still getting a ton of use from it. I'll usually make a T or L shaped match five, and quite often I'll extend the horizontal to a four match to get the whole line clear + the Crit tile (and I know where the crit tile will land, and not on the bottom like where I make a vertical line match). I will usually generate between 6 and 9 blue AP without having to really think hard about it. Often I can still use the line clear to make another match 3, and frequently I can plan it so that my crit tile will land in the perfect spot to make a 3 or 4 match. It's just instinct at this point and doesn't require much thought.

    These often will also lead to quickly gathering a lot of the red tiles that get created as well.

    This is great since Mags has only one obvious optimal cover setting, 3/5/5. This leads to being able to throw a 1 turn high damage tile out that generates between 8 and 15 AP, which Hood can trigger instantly with intimidation.

    So, I wouldn't say that Magstorm was nerfed... It just evolved into Magstormicflux.
  • Buret0 wrote:
    We're off topic from Wanda, but (he said devilishly) I do disagree. I concede it isn't as automatic as it once was (create 2 4 chains & a 3, whatever) but it still functions just fine. Yes, I may have to wait a turn for the board to be optimal, but if I see two blue within a cardinal match, that's 3. There's usually two of those, so that's six. And if there's another in a line, or I can manipulate circumstances to create that, that's 8. True, it isn't an instant critical match and it requires a little more finesse, but it does work.

    Totally willing to concede it isn't the same and it may not work for you (just reiterating for the record) but I still get plenty of mileage out of it. YMMV.

    Yeah, I'm still getting a ton of use from it. I'll usually make a T or L shaped match five, and quite often I'll extend the horizontal to a four match to get the whole line clear + the Crit tile (and I know where the crit tile will land, and not on the bottom like where I make a vertical line match). I will usually generate between 6 and 9 blue AP without having to really think hard about it. Often I can still use the line clear to make another match 3, and frequently I can plan it so that my crit tile will land in the perfect spot to make a 3 or 4 match. It's just instinct at this point and doesn't require much thought.

    These often will also lead to quickly gathering a lot of the red tiles that get created as well.

    This is great since Mags has only one obvious optimal cover setting, 3/5/5. This leads to being able to throw a 1 turn high damage tile out that generates between 8 and 15 AP, which Hood can trigger instantly with intimidation.

    So, I wouldn't say that Magstorm was nerfed... It just evolved into Magstormicflux.
    it surprises me how many people even use magnetic flux....at that point I'd just grab Rogers and call it a day.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    raisinbman wrote:
    Buret0 wrote:
    We're off topic from Wanda, but (he said devilishly) I do disagree. I concede it isn't as automatic as it once was (create 2 4 chains & a 3, whatever) but it still functions just fine. Yes, I may have to wait a turn for the board to be optimal, but if I see two blue within a cardinal match, that's 3. There's usually two of those, so that's six. And if there's another in a line, or I can manipulate circumstances to create that, that's 8. True, it isn't an instant critical match and it requires a little more finesse, but it does work.

    Totally willing to concede it isn't the same and it may not work for you (just reiterating for the record) but I still get plenty of mileage out of it. YMMV.

    Yeah, I'm still getting a ton of use from it. I'll usually make a T or L shaped match five, and quite often I'll extend the horizontal to a four match to get the whole line clear + the Crit tile (and I know where the crit tile will land, and not on the bottom like where I make a vertical line match). I will usually generate between 6 and 9 blue AP without having to really think hard about it. Often I can still use the line clear to make another match 3, and frequently I can plan it so that my crit tile will land in the perfect spot to make a 3 or 4 match. It's just instinct at this point and doesn't require much thought.

    These often will also lead to quickly gathering a lot of the red tiles that get created as well.

    This is great since Mags has only one obvious optimal cover setting, 3/5/5. This leads to being able to throw a 1 turn high damage tile out that generates between 8 and 15 AP, which Hood can trigger instantly with intimidation.

    So, I wouldn't say that Magstorm was nerfed... It just evolved into Magstormicflux.
    it surprises me how many people even use magnetic flux....at that point I'd just grab Rogers and call it a day.

    Because we are using 2* Mag's purple to power 2* Storm's blue. I wouldn't bring Steve with me on that fight because Storm is going to eat his Blue. Depending on what node you are going into (because let's face it, any MagStorm combination is going to get wiped in PvP, even boosted) there are a lot of options.

    As an example, I will use MagStorm + Hood on the final DDQ pretty much every single day. However, where I'm forced into using only 2*s for the earlier nodes, I'll take Bullseye for the third level, to make protect tiles while powering up magneto's purple, but I've got other good 2* options for the 2nd stage goon node.

    Ignoring the high damage output from the red you are already bringing with you (Mag Flux), which generates up to 25 AP just so that you can use Steve's shield? I mean, why not just say, I'm bringing a max level Hulkbuster to use all the Red instead?
  • raisinbman wrote:
    Buret0 wrote:
    We're off topic from Wanda, but (he said devilishly) I do disagree. I concede it isn't as automatic as it once was (create 2 4 chains & a 3, whatever) but it still functions just fine. Yes, I may have to wait a turn for the board to be optimal, but if I see two blue within a cardinal match, that's 3. There's usually two of those, so that's six. And if there's another in a line, or I can manipulate circumstances to create that, that's 8. True, it isn't an instant critical match and it requires a little more finesse, but it does work.

    Totally willing to concede it isn't the same and it may not work for you (just reiterating for the record) but I still get plenty of mileage out of it. YMMV.

    Yeah, I'm still getting a ton of use from it. I'll usually make a T or L shaped match five, and quite often I'll extend the horizontal to a four match to get the whole line clear + the Crit tile (and I know where the crit tile will land, and not on the bottom like where I make a vertical line match). I will usually generate between 6 and 9 blue AP without having to really think hard about it. Often I can still use the line clear to make another match 3, and frequently I can plan it so that my crit tile will land in the perfect spot to make a 3 or 4 match. It's just instinct at this point and doesn't require much thought.

    These often will also lead to quickly gathering a lot of the red tiles that get created as well.

    This is great since Mags has only one obvious optimal cover setting, 3/5/5. This leads to being able to throw a 1 turn high damage tile out that generates between 8 and 15 AP, which Hood can trigger instantly with intimidation.

    So, I wouldn't say that Magstorm was nerfed... It just evolved into Magstormicflux.
    it surprises me how many people even use magnetic flux....at that point I'd just grab Rogers and call it a day.

    This is a 3* solution to a 2* problem. Not optimal. If you have Cap, sure you don't NEED Storm. That does not mean Storm is weak or incapable of holding her own at the 2* level. Just because MNM has utility at the 3* level doesn't undermine his 2* performance.

    Magstorm is a 2* solution to a 2* problem. Perfectly fine team composition at that level. You keep arguing that it's weak and broken and useless and is most certainly is none of these things.

    Of course if you mean 2* Cap that's a different matter. 2* Cap is terrible.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    it surprises me how many people even use magnetic flux....at that point I'd just grab Rogers and call it a day.
    This is a 3* solution to a 2* problem. Not optimal. If you have Cap, sure you don't NEED Storm. That does not mean Storm is weak or incapable of holding her own at the 2* level. Just because MNM has utility at the 3* level doesn't undermine his 2* performance.

    Magstorm is a 2* solution to a 2* problem. Perfectly fine team composition at that level. You keep arguing that it's weak and broken and useless and is most certainly is none of these things.

    Of course if you mean 2* Cap that's a different matter. 2* Cap is terrible.
    I don't think he's doing any of those things, just arguing that it's weaker. Otherwise, why would you continue to use the team? If you've got a functioning Steve Rogers, MNMags + Steve is going to be better in most pve/pvp anyways; made short work of 390+Hulk with that team. Even subbed in 2* cap when lazyCap got tired.

    Magstorm power (approx) at level 94:
    Before nerf: 4.5 Windstorms + 1.5 Magnetic Flux to take on 3*Thor + Lvl 220 X-Force.
    After nerf: 2.5 Windstorms + 1.5 MF to take on lvl 130 Hood + lvl 130 - 3*Magneto.

    After the health buff I'm not sure; haven't been using them as heavily. MNMags definitely benefits a lot, but CStorm is still her fragile self. Also the boost nerfs don't help. The rotating buffs have made also made it more interesting.

    You may ask, why am I talking about attacking 3* and 4* with 2*? Top 100 PVP, when it still mattered. Before the MMR change, you'd generally have to fight at least a few max 3* to break in to top 100, or get really lucky with targets. You still have to to break top 50 now.

    Anyways, that's my reasoning. I do agree that you can still beat average maxed 2* teams easily with Magstorm; I don't think anyone's arguing against that. But if you're pushing the team to their limits, the limits have fallen back.
  • daibar wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    it surprises me how many people even use magnetic flux....at that point I'd just grab Rogers and call it a day.
    This is a 3* solution to a 2* problem. Not optimal. If you have Cap, sure you don't NEED Storm. That does not mean Storm is weak or incapable of holding her own at the 2* level. Just because MNM has utility at the 3* level doesn't undermine his 2* performance.

    Magstorm is a 2* solution to a 2* problem. Perfectly fine team composition at that level. You keep arguing that it's weak and broken and useless and is most certainly is none of these things.

    Of course if you mean 2* Cap that's a different matter. 2* Cap is terrible.
    I don't think he's doing any of those things, just arguing that it's weaker. Otherwise, why would you continue to use the team? If you've got a functioning Steve Rogers, MNMags + Steve is going to be better in most pve/pvp anyways; made short work of 390+Hulk with that team. Even subbed in 2* cap when lazyCap got tired.

    Magstorm power (approx) at level 94:
    Before nerf: 4.5 Windstorms + 1.5 Magnetic Flux to take on 3*Thor + Lvl 220 X-Force.
    After nerf: 2.5 Windstorms + 1.5 MF to take on lvl 130 Hood + lvl 130 - 3*Magneto.

    After the health buff I'm not sure; haven't been using them as heavily. MNMags definitely benefits a lot, but CStorm is still her fragile self. Also the boost nerfs don't help. The rotating buffs have made also made it more interesting.

    You may ask, why am I talking about attacking 3* and 4* with 2*? Top 100 PVP, when it still mattered. Before the MMR change, you'd generally have to fight at least a few max 3* to break in to top 100, or get really lucky with targets. You still have to to break top 50 now.

    Anyways, that's my reasoning. I do agree that you can still beat average maxed 2* teams easily with Magstorm; I don't think anyone's arguing against that. But if you're pushing the team to their limits, the limits have fallen back.
    finally someone presents some evidence it's not as good, I hope the tin-foilers are paying attention
  • LuciferianXLuciferianX Age Unconfirmed Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    The evidence in question doesn't suggest that Magstorm isn't as good because of the ability to fire it off (again, you can still utilize Polarity Shift to create sufficient blue), it does point out that with more HP and that she's made out of papier-mâché in comparison to just about... everyone else Storm has lost efficacy as her big party trick no longer has the same impact it formerly did. So with other characters getting a hit point buff and her damage remaining static, yes, in that light it is less effective. That's a result of the HP raise -- not the change in Polarity Shift. Are you suggesting that the combo as a whole has lost efficacy because of a series of changes? Then I would agree. If you're only suggesting that the change to Polarity Shift made it unusable, then I cannot.

    And. For the record. I worked VERY HARD on that tin foil hat I would prefer you not make light of it.

    Sir.
  • edited May 2015
    it is less effective
    More evidence

    EDIT: Question for people who think Magstorm is "Fine" or "the same" or "better", do you think X-Force is any of the above-mentioned?
  • Man, the word "evidence" is getting tinykitty around here. It's almost as bad as what people did to the word "xenophobic" in the other thread.
  • LuciferianXLuciferianX Age Unconfirmed Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    You didn't actually provide any clarity. I didn't offer evidence of Magstorm failing based on Polarity Shift, which still works great, but the HP shift. So which are you addressing?
  • you can still utilize Polarity Shift to create sufficient blue
    Not always. If I manage to hit 9 purple before matching any blue, sometimes the new Polarity Shift gives only 8-9 blue max. 'Sufficient' isn't the same as more than enough, especially if you're casting more than 1 Windstorm.
    Wind Storm: 501 dmg/AP
    Magnetic Flux: level 5: 152 dmg/AP + approx 18 AP
    Level 4: 185 dmg / AP + approx 7.5 AP

    Most of the time, the 3rd is just a loaner, and you've already farmed out a lot of blue and purple, so the AP gained from magnetic flux isn't as good. With Scarlet Witch, you have no black and no active yellow.

    Magstorm has lost efficacy as a result of Polarity Shift, except with Cyclops.

    The old combination would have been amazing with Scarlet Witch, generating either Blue or Purple. Now Reality Crush does 471 dmg/AP, but odds are if you're using her with Magstorm, you don't have her maxed so Polarity Shift is a far better investment of AP.

    Correction to an earlier post, 2588 for wind storm was her boosted to 134, not to the new boosted level of 150 - 2888 AOE dmg.
  • daibar wrote:
    you can still utilize Polarity Shift to create sufficient blue
    Not always. If I manage to hit 9 purple before matching any blue, sometimes the new Polarity Shift gives only 8-9 blue max. 'Sufficient' isn't the same as more than enough, especially if you're casting more than 1 Windstorm.
    Wind Storm: 501 dmg/AP
    Magnetic Flux: level 5: 152 dmg/AP + approx 18 AP
    Level 4: 185 dmg / AP + approx 7.5 AP

    Most of the time, the 3rd is just a loaner, and you've already farmed out a lot of blue and purple, so the AP gained from magnetic flux isn't as good. With Scarlet Witch, you have no black and no active yellow.

    Magstorm has lost efficacy as a result of Polarity Shift, except with Cyclops.

    The old combination would have been amazing with Scarlet Witch, generating either Blue or Purple. Now Reality Crush does 471 dmg/AP, but odds are if you're using her with Magstorm, you don't have her maxed so Polarity Shift is a far better investment of AP.

    Correction to an earlier post, 2588 for wind storm was her boosted to 134, not to the new boosted level of 150 - 2888 AOE dmg.
    exactly!!!!!!!!
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