4-Star Saturdays and why MPQ reflects US wealth distribution
pheregas
Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
I know, that's quite a wordy subject. However, give me a moment to explain.
The US distribution of wealth can be visualized with the following image:
https://chewychunks.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/america-wealth-distribution.jpg
The same can be said about MPQ rewards. Only the top 1% in the top alliances ever have a shot at the top 4-star cover prize. The upper-middle class are those that have a good reserve of 3-star characters who are higher level and can gain whatever 3-star cover reward with their alliance. The middle class are those with a few 3-star characters and have no prayer of entering a top-100 alliance, but can still grind away to get the 3-star prize, using as a progression reward. The poor are the new guys who are just entering the game and are in alliances that might place around rank 5,000.
I am totally for a little more opportunity and equality in this game. I think the Deadpool Dailies were a good start, but I propose a few changes in order to further balance the game. And invoking the following changes would help balance the skewing of power that spills over into the PVP arena (in which I almost cannot compete after a certain point because all my opponents are lvl 200+ with multiple points per cover color).
1) Make Saturday's 4-star Saturday for Deadpool. This gives many people the opportunity to gain a 4-star cover for a character they've already unlocked. (I have four 4-star character, but never use them because even if granted a level boost, they can never get close to someone who has the same level character, but with more covers).
2) Grant all players all 2-star and 1-star characters and allow them to distribute their color powers however they wish. (Level upgrades remain as they are and require Iso-8).
3) 2-star and 1-star characters no longer use roster slots. This will get rid of the problem of people having to drop a character just to make room for a new 3-star character.
4) Eliminate 2-star and 1-star covers as Standard rewards. Make them Iso-8 only. Heaven knows that most 2-star and 1-star reward covers end up being sold for Iso-8 anyway, so lets cut out the middle-man.
5) Gold reward covers may include a 3-star, 4-star, or Hero Points. If the 3-star is a duplicate, it can be sold for Iso-8, but it at least gives the player the opportunity to customize more. (I would love to play with different 3-star builds, but there's no opportunity since the covers are so rare.)
Anyway, just a few thoughts. What do you think?
The US distribution of wealth can be visualized with the following image:
https://chewychunks.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/america-wealth-distribution.jpg
The same can be said about MPQ rewards. Only the top 1% in the top alliances ever have a shot at the top 4-star cover prize. The upper-middle class are those that have a good reserve of 3-star characters who are higher level and can gain whatever 3-star cover reward with their alliance. The middle class are those with a few 3-star characters and have no prayer of entering a top-100 alliance, but can still grind away to get the 3-star prize, using as a progression reward. The poor are the new guys who are just entering the game and are in alliances that might place around rank 5,000.
I am totally for a little more opportunity and equality in this game. I think the Deadpool Dailies were a good start, but I propose a few changes in order to further balance the game. And invoking the following changes would help balance the skewing of power that spills over into the PVP arena (in which I almost cannot compete after a certain point because all my opponents are lvl 200+ with multiple points per cover color).
1) Make Saturday's 4-star Saturday for Deadpool. This gives many people the opportunity to gain a 4-star cover for a character they've already unlocked. (I have four 4-star character, but never use them because even if granted a level boost, they can never get close to someone who has the same level character, but with more covers).
2) Grant all players all 2-star and 1-star characters and allow them to distribute their color powers however they wish. (Level upgrades remain as they are and require Iso-8).
3) 2-star and 1-star characters no longer use roster slots. This will get rid of the problem of people having to drop a character just to make room for a new 3-star character.
4) Eliminate 2-star and 1-star covers as Standard rewards. Make them Iso-8 only. Heaven knows that most 2-star and 1-star reward covers end up being sold for Iso-8 anyway, so lets cut out the middle-man.
5) Gold reward covers may include a 3-star, 4-star, or Hero Points. If the 3-star is a duplicate, it can be sold for Iso-8, but it at least gives the player the opportunity to customize more. (I would love to play with different 3-star builds, but there's no opportunity since the covers are so rare.)
Anyway, just a few thoughts. What do you think?
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Comments
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pheregas wrote:1) Make Saturday's 4-star Saturday for Deadpool. This gives many people the opportunity to gain a 4-star cover for a character they've already unlocked. (I have four 4-star character, but never use them because even if granted a level boost, they can never get close to someone who has the same level character, but with more covers).
2) Grant all players all 2-star and 1-star characters and allow them to distribute their color powers however they wish. (Level upgrades remain as they are and require Iso-8).
3) 2-star and 1-star characters no longer use roster slots. This will get rid of the problem of people having to drop a character just to make room for a new 3-star character.
4) Eliminate 2-star and 1-star covers as Standard rewards. Make them Iso-8 only. Heaven knows that most 2-star and 1-star reward covers end up being sold for Iso-8 anyway, so lets cut out the middle-man.
5) Gold reward covers may include a 3-star, 4-star, or Hero Points. If the 3-star is a duplicate, it can be sold for Iso-8, but it at least gives the player the opportunity to customize more. (I would love to play with different 3-star builds, but there's no opportunity since the covers are so rare.)
1. This is a logical progression for DDQ, especially in relation to weekly buffs now. The five 3* and two 4* would be awarded in DDQ the same week they're buffed. The hitch in the plan is that DDQ for a 4* would have to dramatically ramp up in difficulty, to the point where it might be borderline unplayable. Lots of negative feedback to that.
2. No. The 1->2* progression shouldn't be removed.
3. That's an idea, but given the use of teamups, there'd still need to be a cap on how many you can have, or every vet and their postman would have 30 pages of Widows Sting to hand out.
4. No. Standards are an easy and logical way for lower tier players to progress. See 2.
5. I must be misunderstanding this, because other than HP, this is what happens now.0 -
what do you mean someone with a few 3 stars have no chance at a top 100 allaince. I been in a top 100 allaince with 0 3 stars within a month of joining (i did grind major in PVE those days)
4... do you know the uproar this would cause about people spend millions of iso pushing up their 2 stars months ago and now they want their cash back.0 -
There are 14 2* characters, taking 69.530 ISO to max.slidecage wrote:4... do you know the uproar this would cause about people spend millions of iso pushing up their 2 stars months ago and now they want their cash back.
That's 833.420 ISO total - including Bagman.
Where are these "millions" of ISO that you speak of?0 -
The Devs and Publishers live in the US, and both want to be in that 1%.
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Bowgentle wrote:
There are 14 2* characters, taking 69.530 ISO to max.slidecage wrote:4... do you know the uproar this would cause about people spend millions of iso pushing up their 2 stars months ago and now they want their cash back.
That's 833.420 ISO total - including Bagman.
Where are these "millions" of ISO that you speak of?
if they built more then one or if they build them to max and then sold them off for room0 -
Just curious, OP...
1) Where are you from?
2) What are your political leanings?
3) Why do you think balance is vital to the game (micro) and to life (macro)?
4) If somebody else has something, did they earn it...or did they steal it from somebody else who should have had it? In other words, is the game and life a zero sum pie?0 -
pheregas wrote:I know, that's quite a wordy subject. However, give me a moment to explain.
The US distribution of wealth can be visualized with the following image:
https://chewychunks.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/america-wealth-distribution.jpg
The same can be said about MPQ rewards. Only the top 1% in the top alliances ever have a shot at the top 4-star cover prize. The upper-middle class are those that have a good reserve of 3-star characters who are higher level and can gain whatever 3-star cover reward with their alliance. The middle class are those with a few 3-star characters and have no prayer of entering a top-100 alliance, but can still grind away to get the 3-star prize, using as a progression reward. The poor are the new guys who are just entering the game and are in alliances that might place around rank 5,000.
I am totally for a little more opportunity and equality in this game. I think the Deadpool Dailies were a good start, but I propose a few changes in order to further balance the game. And invoking the following changes would help balance the skewing of power that spills over into the PVP arena (in which I almost cannot compete after a certain point because all my opponents are lvl 200+ with multiple points per cover color).
1) Make Saturday's 4-star Saturday for Deadpool. This gives many people the opportunity to gain a 4-star cover for a character they've already unlocked. (I have four 4-star character, but never use them because even if granted a level boost, they can never get close to someone who has the same level character, but with more covers).
2) Grant all players all 2-star and 1-star characters and allow them to distribute their color powers however they wish. (Level upgrades remain as they are and require Iso-8).
3) 2-star and 1-star characters no longer use roster slots. This will get rid of the problem of people having to drop a character just to make room for a new 3-star character.
4) Eliminate 2-star and 1-star covers as Standard rewards. Make them Iso-8 only. Heaven knows that most 2-star and 1-star reward covers end up being sold for Iso-8 anyway, so lets cut out the middle-man.
5) Gold reward covers may include a 3-star, 4-star, or Hero Points. If the 3-star is a duplicate, it can be sold for Iso-8, but it at least gives the player the opportunity to customize more. (I would love to play with different 3-star builds, but there's no opportunity since the covers are so rare.)
Anyway, just a few thoughts. What do you think?
1) Like Grumpy I can see this. The key would them be setting the expectations by discussing their vision for what it will look like, and how they think metrics (not including numbers) will bear it out. There will still be uproar since most people wouldnt be able to finish it, but there needs to be something static that offers rewards commensurate with the difficulty...and a way to more reliably pull 4*s.
2) No. Leave 1* and 2*s alone. Its not perfect, but also far from broken. Its easy enough to get covers to respec and the way it is allows for people to learn the system.
3) No. See 2)
4) Yes! Eliminate the cover pulls after matches. Having them in the token rewards is more than enough. Standard tokens are passed out like candy at Halloween anyway. One extra nice thing would be a "Sell all 1* and 2*" button on the sell screen. Ive sold 3* covers because its too hard to navigate and I just gave up finding them.
5) Not really understanding this proposal. Is it just to add HP to the draws, similar to Tacos? I do like the potential for a character cover that can be which ever color you want.0 -
Firs of all i don't understand why the need for equality. Different people have put different amount of resources into the game (time or money or both) and need to have different rewards for it. You cant seriously be asking to compete on equal basis with someone who is playing this game since the beginning, and who invested hours and hours in order to have great roster. 1% is what we all need to strive for. When i started playing i checked out guys on top and said, ok that is what i want to have, and i worked for it, it was't given to me. Now granted there were less character then and was easier, but i never though of coming to forums and asking for equality, i assumed that i could initially only reach 300 points in pvp, then 600, then 800, then 1000. But as i said with too many characters this road is harder than it was when i was starting to play it. So i will go through your list and give my insight:
1) Make Saturday's 4-star Saturday for Deadpool. This gives many people the opportunity to gain a 4-star cover for a character they've already unlocked. (I have four 4-star character, but never use them because even if granted a level boost, they can never get close to someone who has the same level character, but with more covers).
- In order to solve the puzzle of making 4* progression easier than 3* is this is a good idea. They should make it similar to current ddq just with gauntlet level of difficulty
2) Grant all players all 2-star and 1-star characters and allow them to distribute their color powers however they wish. (Level upgrades remain as they are and require Iso-8)
- No, when you start your game you need to learn to play it, thats why you need to go through the prologue to learn the basics, level up characters... etc Giving everyone all 2&1 start characters will skip learning curve, and will make new players expecting that they need to get everything for free.
3) 2-star and 1-star characters no longer use roster slots. This will get rid of the problem of people having to drop a character just to make room for a new 3-star character.
- Agreed
4) Eliminate 2-star and 1-star covers as Standard rewards. Make them Iso-8 only. Heaven knows that most 2-star and 1-star reward covers end up being sold for Iso-8 anyway, so lets cut out the middle-man.
- No, in order to achieve progression i stated in #2, new players need this covers
5) Gold reward covers may include a 3-star, 4-star, or Hero Points. If the 3-star is a duplicate, it can be sold for Iso-8, but it at least gives the player the opportunity to customize more. (I would love to play with different 3-star builds, but there's no opportunity since the covers are so rare.)
- Not sure what you mean by gold covers, as many think that heroic ones are gold, which is not true. But if you think of them, no, they should still continue to give 2*, you cant really expect to be given every 3* cover for free, otherwise fighting for those covers both in pvp and pve would be pointless.0 -
Disagree, this isn't a democracy. People work for their rewards. #obama.0
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Sounds like you just want handouts... disagree with everything except 4-star Saturdays, which would be great. It's nigh impossible to get a 4-star character to be useful, meanwhile they're clogging up my expensive slots because I can't bring myself to get rid of them. Case-in-point I've had a single blue Invisible Woman who I never used until this storyline because she was required, at which point I was very glad to have her around; probably a major reason I'm likely finishing in the top 10 for the event in a few hours. They should still be rare to get, and I think one 4-star per week that requires that you already have one is still quite rare, but it'll at least be something to look forward to.0
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For clarification, this was only a proposal and an invitation to a discussion, which I think has been started and good things that I hadn't originally thought of addressed.
Of note. No, I do not want handouts. I've logged 440 days of play and all continuous. I've gotten all my 1 and 2 star characters exactly where I want them, but I don't touch them because why use them if you've got a better 3-star alternative?
But I am also frustrated with the alliance system. Until recently, I had been plodding along with one of those middle of the road alliances that didn't net me much other than a few extra Iso-8 per event. I played for progression rewards. Recently, I joined the message boards and actively sought out a higher end alliance during the Ultron event. Despite playing more hours per day, I could barely keep up because I just didn't have the time between life and work. Despite achieving all progression points, plus 10-20,000 points over, I was unceremoniously and without warning, bumped from this alliance because I only got 244 points in the PVP for that one round (I had hit 300, but got hit with attacks overnight). This was 2 hours before my event expired, so I missed the alliance reward for the PVE that I contributed in (and for the record, I was a middling score in that alliance).
I've since found an alliance that seems to be a little more closer knit and have been very happy there in my past few days.
But please correct me if I am wrong, but there are only three ways of getting a 4-star character.
1) A reward from an event, usually placing 1 or 2.
2) From a random drop (increased if you buy a 10-pack, though I've won several 10-packs during events and have had on more than one occasion not even one 3-star drop).
3) The SHIELD Resupply.
So that leaves me in a predicament. I can spend money on buying HP to level my existing 4-stars (which doesn't help me at all for cover colors that I don't already have), or I can join the top alliance. But that is a Catch-22 since a top alliance wouldn't take me given that I work and don't have the deep high level roster that others have, which is ok. I wouldn't want someone dragging my alliance down either.
What that leaves is just dumb luck for progressing, which doesn't represent hard work. It represents odds and statistics.
I do enjoy the game. I have spent money on the game to support the company and developers because I believe in rewarding those responsible for the game for a good job. Maybe what I am looking for is not so much equality, but opportunity.0 -
pheregas wrote:But please correct me if I am wrong, but there are only three ways of getting a 4-star character.
1) A reward from an event, usually placing 1 or 2.
2) From a random drop (increased if you buy a 10-pack, though I've won several 10-packs during events and have had on more than one occasion not even one 3-star drop).
3) The SHIELD Resupply.
1) Or as T50 in intro PVE, similar for PVP
2) To clarify, these are TOKEN pulls, not drops (like after a match)
You missed:
4) Progression reward for PVE/PVP
5) Season alliance reward0 -
This thread seems to be fond of lists.
I like #3 a lot and 2 and 4 kind of flow from 3 but I disagree with them. No roster cost for 2* and 1* would be a great step forward in roster cost redistribution. Still, no reason to give away the farm, allow players to grow organically from prologue to 2*s to PvE and PvP. Even if the 1*->2* transition is short and sweet it allows players to get a feel for the game.
As for 4* Saturday, I think my feelings on the subject are pretty clear from the last two times it's been suggested. There still aren't enough 4* characters for this to be viable. Instead, I would suggest the daily progress rewards be reworked and retroactively rewarded so that the newest 4* is about 30 days out. At a certain point the daily rewards start giving you a 4* every 30 days, if those covers were useful it would be a great benefit, but since they released so many so fast currently IMHB is on day 800+ or something. If they were 30 days out from his release then the "1%" get a small edge in building 4*s, but the average player will get a steady stream of 4* covers starting at day 149 with XF.0 -
To clarify my position on 3) above, I dont think they should be free. I think they should be cheap. Essentially trivial amounts, such as $5 would get you all the 1* and most of the 2*. Then ramp up, followed by reasonable (like NOT 900HP) costs for every available char. Secondary versions? Yeah, those should cost a decent amount (still less than a 3* cover though, which are over priced themselves).0
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The ability to custom pick a color when getting a certain cover would be nice. Or maybe having the option of spending hero points to reclassify a color. That way, when I get my 6th black cover for Blade (which has happened twice now), I can convert it to purple or green.0
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pheregas wrote:The ability to custom pick a color when getting a certain cover would be nice. Or maybe having the option of spending hero points to reclassify a color. That way, when I get my 6th black cover for Blade (which has happened twice now), I can convert it to purple or green.
You can already spend HP to "reclassify" a cover. Simply buy whatever color you actually wanted. In fact you don't even need a cover to reclassify.
Maybe a HP discount if you have a cover in the queue to "convert".0 -
"Socialism, MPQ and You"
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OP,
You posted in your follow up that you don't have the time to give to the game in order to achieve the goals that you aspire to (good alliance, higher scores, better rewards), right? Would it be more accurate to say that you "choose" to spend your time on other activities or with someone other than MPQ? By "choosing" to forego the required time and effort, you thereby "choose" to forego the benefits of said aspirations. You should not be entitled to a 4 star character just by showing up on a daily basis. 4 star characters are not the participation trophy of MPQ...and should never be. These "rare" characters should be hard to attain and based on hard work or by a price to be had.
When I was an undergrad...married with a couple kids, full course load, and a part time job...and I didn't have the time to study for a test and then failed...do I deserve an A because I went to class like everybody else? H to the N...I don't. I "chose" to have a family, a job, quality time with my family, etc. I didn't put the necessary time and effort in to deserve that A. Such it is with MPQ. If you don't have the time, you better have some money. If you don't have the money, you better make time.
I have been playing MPQ for over 500 days. I have gone through periods of crazy amounts of time invested into the game to playing the bare minimum for the daily reward (way before Deadpool's Daily.) I was in the most casual alliance you could ever be in (my son and I). I could barely hit 300 in PVP. I decided one day that I wanted to score higher and get a stronger roster, so the first thing I did was I put more of my spare time into the game. Lots of time. Lunch hour, late nights before bed, while making dinner...whatever it took. I was able to get a more competitive roster and able to score 500 in PVP consistently. This made me an enticing target for a t100 alliance, which I joined and was able to get even stronger. And then I was able to join a better alliance, 5DeadlyToxins, which has been a huge boost to my roster because...get this...they all put in the TIME to make our alliance great. You have to put forth the effort to achieve your lofty goals. 30 minutes to an hour a day won't get you far...only to be asking for another participation trophy just for showing up and eating oranges.
The opportunity is there.
I know this isn't geared toward your suggested changes, but you were the one who presented your case the way you did, blasting the 1% and talking about fairness and equality. Life isn't fair, MPQ isn't fair. You don't like it...make a change. Invest more time in the game, pay a few bucks to get there.
Off soapbox...0 -
Just to build on my man Husty's post. .. in MPQ, if you want to build strong rosters and do well in events, you basically have to either spend the time to grind in pve events to place high and get those cover rewards, or blow $$$ on 42 cover packs and hope you get the covers you need. Since I'm not rich, I chose to spend the time to grind. For a enemy of the state pve event, with a new HulkBuster cover release, I was spending at least 3 hours per sub for this event. That's a lot of time, no? The time spend grinding in mpq meant I couldn't do other things, like going to the theater to watch Avengers Age of Ultron movie. It's a question of making choices of how you spend your time (or money).
I totally disagree with the suggestion of offering 4* covers in DDQ, because I view 4* as special class of characters (despite the nerfs) and they should be difficult to get. D3 is giving 4* covers in the daily shield supply (that's how I finally got the missing green Dino cover), and occasionally you'll get lucky with getting a 4* cover from a token (like me getting Star Lord red from a DA heroic token this week). The point is that there are other ways to get 4* covers, and DDQ should not be a way to distribute them.0 -
puppychow wrote:I view 4* as special class of characters (despite the nerfs) and they should be difficult to get. D3 is giving 4* covers in the daily shield supply (that's how I finally got the missing green Dino cover), and occasionally you'll get lucky with getting a 4* cover from a token (like me getting Star Lord red from a DA heroic token this week). The point is that there are other ways to get 4* covers, and DDQ should not be a way to distribute them.
There is a difference between difficult and almost impossible. Even playing optimally, with the correctly covered/leveled chars, it is a very long term prospect and will only get worse as we see more 4*s. Maybe not DPDQ, but there should be something similar to cut down the time for a F2P person who collects every available (progression/quest/season) reward to a reasonable length (3 months?)0
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