4* transition?

wymtime

Heartburn wrote:

is it just me or are the 4* missing the match damage to back up their ranking, king pin highest is 81 professor x 82, 4thor 82 , with 3* having 79 in their highest. going from 1*~25 to 2* ~ 50 to 3* ~79, 4* should be around 100-125 in their max color.

You bring up a great question and the Devs have said in the past they don't want 4* to be that much more powerful than 3*. There fear is that if 4* did that much more match damage 4* players would completly lock 3* players out of progression. So they gave 4* a little more power and match damage but not that much more so players with strong 3* could still compete.

I am not saying I agree or disagree. I would like to see 4* have a little more advantage, and a clear path to get my roster to 4* land. As of right now I personally feel like I am not able to build my 4* becuase I can't stop in the middle of the work day to play MPQ to try and shield hop to 1000 points. I play a lot and actually really like my Job. I do feel I should be able to actually focus on my job ano have the ability to earn 4* characters. Silly me for wanting to provide for my family.

Unknown

Pulled a Kingpin cover from a heroic token last night. Should have been excited. Instead, I thought, "It might take longer for me to get the other 11 covers I would need to max this character than the lifespan of the game that features him."

Seriously, developers. I want to hear about this. I'll stop bumping this thread if the issue is resolved in the May Q and A, but this is a potentially important part of the game that currently doesn't exist.

simonsez

This really isn't worth stressing anymore, the way they're buffing 3*s in every event now. Hell, if my colossus, of all characters, is doing more damage this week than my 5red HB, it really highlights that 4*s aren't worth the HP, ISO, or aggravation.

Unknown

4* characters being useless is another discussion, or at least another part of this discussion. The only accomplishment in this game is acquiring characters. Having a robust 3* roster means you don't need to keep collecting 3* characters indefinitely. As the game stands, if there is no 4* progression, a lot of vets are finished (in the sense that there's nothing else meaningful to do). So regardless of whether or not those characters are useful in the current PvP meta (and I'll admit that they aren't particularly so), I'd like to know whether or not there's going to be anything else for me to legitimately work toward in this game. Because if it's just 3* characters ad infinitum, I apparently finished this game sometime last year.

westnyy2

I would also love to see a dev response. The recent changes have completely nerfed the fun factor in this game for me. I am basically dangling in the wind at this point. Yes I have more 3 star character to level, but none which are a top priority. The fun for me was the 4 star transition and staying ahead of the curve.

I rarely aim to finish 1st in any event. I like a late climb with maybe a hop or two depending on where I am. Now I simply climb to 800 and call it a day. Of course that is if I decide to play the event at all. I understand wanting to keep the game at a level where new players can bridge the gap fairly quick to become competitive but what do you have for us loyal players? It's almost a shame on us feel for staying. I hope the devs read this thread. I also hope you can look up my account and see how much money I have put into this game along the way. Sadly, that figure will no longer increase as I have sunk my last dollar into MPQ. There are other games out there and I have started playing several. This is not goodbye but please give the vets a reason to play.

simonsez

Moon 17 wrote:

Having a robust 3* roster means you don't need to keep collecting 3* characters indefinitely. As the game stands, if there is no 4* progression, a lot of vets are finished

No, the vets with a full 3* roster can get at least three 4*s a week, because they'll have no problem hitting 1k in PvP.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

No, the vets with a full 3* roster can get at least three 4*s a week, because they'll have no problem hitting 1k in PvP.

Maybe? Not in my experience. Or, to perhaps be more accurate, not reliably. Health buffs + boosted 3* characters + boost reductions means that you can't shield hop for more than 1 fight without getting hit. And since shields are on 8 hour clocks now, there's no guarantee that you're going to make reliable upward progress above 900 points. Remember that everyone can see you, no matter how small their scores are, and they'll start biting you while you wade through your incredibly slow fight.

Anyway, I won't pretend that I've tested extensively, but the last two attempts I made at 1000 were failures...and fairly expensive ones at that. The 1000 point progressions was the most reliable way to cover 4*s, but as of the last few alterations to the game it's not so reliable anymore.

Which is, you know, a big part of the reason this thread exists.

xellessanova

I actually haven't been able to hit 1000 at all this season when I used to do so regularly. I topped out at a heartbreaking 999 pts in Hulkbuster PVP WHEN I had an alliance member skip 200 opponents in 6 minutes (2000 ISO!) deliberately trying to lose to me and he just couldn't find me.

1. Everyone forced to shield at over 600 points or else they lose -20 to -30 points per defensive loss
2. Opponents provide 30 points per hop instead of 40-50
3. Playing 1 match vs Boosted characters takes roughly 6 minutes, can only play 1 match safely (and sometimes not even that)
4. Playing 2 matches (11 minutes) means at least 1 hit coming in
5. Shielding 3-8-3-8 costs 450 hero points for shields, assuming start at 650 18 hours out and +45 to +50 points per hop = 840

In Smash Back I ended up doing 3-8-3-8-3-8-3 for 875 hp and 999, which in retrospect was a really bad deal. It doesn't make sense.

Unknown

It seems like they have fixed the 'half ability damage gain per level' for 4* which makes 4* slightly more viable. I'm not sure what's going on because it seems like from 70-270 they still follow same thing (you go 4X in level but ability damage is only double in this range) but checking my maxed 4*s, they're getting more than the expected 16% ability damage for a ~33% (270->350-360) at the boosted levels. This makes them not strictly inferior after level boosts though I'm not sure if they're better either.

simonsez

Moon 17 wrote:

Maybe? Not in my experience. Or, to perhaps be more accurate, not reliably.

Are you in any of the joint battle chats? If not, if would probably help a lot. Not saying this to make you feel bad, but I can't recall ever seeing an instance where someone in there was trying to make 1k and fell short. Even if someone is legitimately having trouble, there are at least half a dozen people at any given time willing to boost him past the hump.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Are you in any of the joint battle chats? If not, if would probably help a lot. Not saying this to make you feel bad, but I can't recall ever seeing an instance where someone in there was trying to make 1k and fell short. Even if someone is legitimately having trouble, there are at least half a dozen people at any given time willing to boost him past the hump.

That's fair, and I'll freely admit that I'm not. But is that a designed necessity of breaking 1k in PvP? I can't imagine that to be the case. I would humbly submit that, in order for a progression to be a real progression, it would need to be obtainable through exclusively in-game resources. Like, if I'm assumed to be spending x amount of HP on shields in order to make it--no problem. If I'm assumed to be communicating through external channels with other players so that we can collude in order to achieve individual prizes--that's a problem; the standard is not correctly set.

simonsez

Moon 17 wrote:

But is that a designed necessity of breaking 1k in PvP?

I don't think anyone would argue that collusion is necessary; it's just obviously helpful if you don't have to worry about retaliations.

sinnerjfl

simonsez wrote:

Are you in any of the joint battle chats? If not, if would probably help a lot. Not saying this to make you feel bad, but I can't recall ever seeing an instance where someone in there was trying to make 1k and fell short. Even if someone is legitimately having trouble, there are at least half a dozen people at any given time willing to boost him past the hump.

Can you provide the specific info on those battle chats? I know it's on Line and all (which I don't use but might... getting annoyed with trying to hit 1000)

simonsez

sinnerjfl wrote:

Can you provide the specific info on those battle chats? I know it's on Line and all (which I don't use but might... getting annoyed with trying to hit 1000)

It's basically just a large chat room where folks announce their shield status, and it's up to each person to keep track of who's in the room and to only hit them when they're shielded. If a high-point person announces a hop, you queue them up and hit them after they reshield. A good target for you, reduced sniping for them, and no retal against you. Everybody wins.

wymtime

Moon 17 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Are you in any of the joint battle chats? If not, if would probably help a lot. Not saying this to make you feel bad, but I can't recall ever seeing an instance where someone in there was trying to make 1k and fell short. Even if someone is legitimately having trouble, there are at least half a dozen people at any given time willing to boost him past the hump.

That's fair, and I'll freely admit that I'm not. But is that a designed necessity of breaking 1k in PvP? I can't imagine that to be the case. I would humbly submit that, in order for a progression to be a real progression, it would need to be obtainable through exclusively in-game resources. Like, if I'm assumed to be spending x amount of HP on shields in order to make it--no problem. If I'm assumed to be communicating through external channels with other players so that we can collude in order to achieve individual prizes--that's a problem; the standard is not correctly set.

I would say hitting 1000 points is not so much about outside communications as it is about being able to play and hop at certain times of the day. If you can hit an 8,3,8 shield hop or a 3,8,3 hop you can probably hit 1000 points. The issue is right now this is the only real way to cover 4* characters right now and if you like me have a job you care about hitting the correct timing is brutal. You need to start you big pushes 17 hrs before the end of PVP if you are going to hop to 1000. I have seen some people hit 1000 in one push with buying health packs instead. Either way you are paying HP for the 4* cover, bu it is cheaper than spending 2500.
My issue is the time for hopping since I can't just step away from work at certain times to shield hop so I would either need to use a 24hr shield or buy a bunch of health packs while a bunch of players are playing and sniping me towards the end of PVP.
I am really hoping in the Q&A they have some answers as they said this should be easier than the 2-3* transition.

ballingbees

wymtime wrote:

I am really hoping in the Q&A they have some answers as they said this should be easier than the 2-3* transition.

I'm starting to think that when they said this, they meant it as much as when they said a new character every other week.

puppychow

simonsez wrote:

Moon 17 wrote:

Maybe? Not in my experience. Or, to perhaps be more accurate, not reliably.

Are you in any of the joint battle chats? If not, if would probably help a lot. Not saying this to make you feel bad, but I can't recall ever seeing an instance where someone in there was trying to make 1k and fell short. Even if someone is legitimately having trouble, there are at least half a dozen people at any given time willing to boost him past the hump.

You're missing the point. Even if you and your buds are in the same shard, there is still a chance that your friends won't find you and give you points via retreats. Even if someone is not shielded, it's not certain that you will be able to find him via skipping. It's really weird, sometimes, how the matchups end up looping over the same handful of teams over and over.

simonsez

puppychow wrote:

It's really weird, sometimes, how the matchups end up looping over the same handful of teams over and over.

Yes, it is weird that would happen to you, because I've never NOT been able to find someone who announces a hop.