EOTS:The Gorgon level...Red AP Generation for Wolverine?!

HustyReaps

Am I missing something? I had Wolverine get 4 Admantium Slashes off on my behind! I watched his AP generator the whole time. He would all of a sudden have 12 even when the computer matched a simple match 3, not even a red match, and without any cascades happening. His first slash happened on the third turn without sufficient red matches to allow it to happen. Anybody else have this happen?

JVReal

Goons (non-board moving characters) generate AP every turn since they cannot move the board. If Wolverine is with 2 goons that use Red attacks, he will get +2 red AP from each of them each turn including whatever Wolverine matches. It does typically result in Adimantium slashes every 3 turns or so.

Unknown

Having '"fun" yet?

easy...marc

Malcrof

JVReal wrote:

Goons (non-board moving characters) generate AP every turn since they cannot move the board. If Wolverine is with 2 goons that use Red attacks, he will get +2 red AP from each of them each turn including whatever Wolverine matches. It does typically result in Adimantium slashes every 3 turns or so.

Now the question, kill goons asap or off wolvie asap.. goon countdowns can do as much as the slash.. which is better?

JVReal

Malcrof wrote:

JVReal wrote:

Goons (non-board moving characters) generate AP every turn since they cannot move the board. If Wolverine is with 2 goons that use Red attacks, he will get +2 red AP from each of them each turn including whatever Wolverine matches. It does typically result in Adimantium slashes every 3 turns or so.

Now the question, kill goons asap or off wolvie asap.. goon countdowns can do as much as the slash.. which is better?

With Wolverine, I down him first since he can move the board, and hits harder and faster than the goons.

With other characters I take down at least 1 goon first if their health is lower to slow the Free AP, and sometimes the ai moves the board and helps clear some of the cd tiles the goons generate. Example: Doom and his doombots. I will typically take down the lowest health doombot to slow down feeding his ap, because Summon Demons hurts.

Unknown

Target Wolverine first, anger-bomb with Hulk, harvest green, sniper with GSBW.

JVReal

shade_tree wrote:

Target Wolverine first, anger-bomb with Hulk, harvest green, sniper with GSBW.

Except that if he didn't know about goon AP generation, he's likely a newer player and may not have Hulk and GSBW or not have them covered well. I still only have Hulk with 1 black cover

Probably looking for 2* roster advice.

simonsez

HustyReaps wrote:

Am I missing something? I had Wolverine get 4 Admantium Slashes off on my behind!

Damn, I'm jealous... I wish my scaling was such that I could last long enough to take 4 of them...

Unknown

JVReal wrote:

shade_tree wrote:

Target Wolverine first, anger-bomb with Hulk, harvest green, sniper with GSBW.

Except that if he didn't know about goon AP generation, he's likely a newer player and may not have Hulk and GSBW or not have them covered well. I still only have Hulk with 1 black cover

Probably looking for 2* roster advice.

He joined the forum in Jan 2014 so I figured the OP was a vet...

HustyReaps

I've been playing for a long time...500+ days...and I have noticed things like this before, but I didn't realize Konran generated 2 red AP per turn. It didn't show it in the AP counter after each turn, either. I know some goons generate AP.

optimus2861

Yeah, I'm sick of having my heroes nuked by the new higher-HP Wolvie and Gorgon. As soon as I hit the 50HP progression, I'm done with this event. If you don't have Falcon, I honestly don't know how you deal with the sheer volume of special tiles these ninjas spam out. Cap is a godsend in the survival nodes, because he gets his shields rolling and even gets his yellow off, but in a straight 3-on-3 fight he's too slow. Ditto GSBW; by the time you hit 18+ green, you're either dead or in dire need of health packs.

Unknown

Falcon doesn't help really. Redwing too slow. She Hulk helps a little with . Mostly tho it's just take to the face until you win. Yea it sucks but that's how Hand Ninja operate.

Pylgrim

djsquillz wrote:

Having '"fun" yet?

easy...marc

Yep! There is a thrill to race wolvie or otherwise deny or slow his access at AS. That's basically the definition of fun and why one plays games: to be challenged and experience the satisfaction of overcoming those challenges.

Perhaps you'd prefer if his red read: Adamantium Slash. 30 Wolvie places a 99 countdown tile on a tile of his opponent's choice. If for some reason, it manages to go off, Wolvie clumsily scratches towards your general direction dealing a whooping 1 damage to the target and 10000 to himself. And and the goons, instead generating red, actually consume red without doing nothing. And and when you finish the battle, you are rewarded with 13 covers of the colours of your choice of the 4* character of your choice and a million iso.

Punisher5784

JVReal wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

JVReal wrote:

Goons (non-board moving characters) generate AP every turn since they cannot move the board. If Wolverine is with 2 goons that use Red attacks, he will get +2 red AP from each of them each turn including whatever Wolverine matches. It does typically result in Adimantium slashes every 3 turns or so.

Now the question, kill goons asap or off wolvie asap.. goon countdowns can do as much as the slash.. which is better?

With Wolverine, I down him first since he can move the board, and hits harder and faster than the goons.

With other characters I take down at least 1 goon first if their health is lower to slow the Free AP, and sometimes the ai moves the board and helps clear some of the cd tiles the goons generate. Example: Doom and his doombots. I will typically take down the lowest health doombot to slow down feeding his ap, because Summon Demons hurts.

Sometimes I leave Wolverine last because he'll match the CDs for me.

Unknown

In the 1 villian + 2 goon combo it's almost invariably better to down the villian first unless the goons are Doombots, who have especially low HPs and in that case it depends on who you're fighting and you're using too. You should of course stun the 1 guy who can move the board too, and usually his goons will use up the AP while the villian is stunned which should make things easier for you.

In the Gorgon + Wolverine + Konron node it is better to stun the Konron because stunning him stops the 2 red/black AP a turn while stunning either Gorgon or Wolverine does nothing so far as their ability to move the board is concerned.

Unknown

HustyReaps wrote:

I've been playing for a long time...500+ days...and I have noticed things like this before, but I didn't realize Konran generated 2 red AP per turn. It didn't show it in the AP counter after each turn, either. I know some goons generate AP.

*All* goons passively generate AP. (The Ultron bots are sort of but not really an exception because all of their abilities are passives; see below.)

In general, a goon will generate either 1 or 2 AP of the same color as each of their active abilities.* They used to generate AP in the same colors as their passive abilities as well, but this was dropped recently--ISO-8 Brotherhood goons were generating a ton of black AP that had no active outlet.

*Edit: This is not random; it depends on which goon you are talking about. A given type always has the same AP generation per turn.

HustyReaps

Thanks, Vairelome for the clarification. I guess that I don't usually notice it at lower goon levels because I usually take the active opponent out before he can fire off an ability. I was using different boosted characters on the level, which had larger AP needs, so I was caught off guard when he slashed me to death.

grunth13

Pylgrim wrote:

djsquillz wrote:

Having '"fun" yet?

easy...marc

Yep! There is a thrill to race wolvie or otherwise deny or slow his access at AS. That's basically the definition of fun and why one plays games: to be challenged and experience the satisfaction of overcoming those challenges.

Perhaps you'd prefer if his red read: Adamantium Slash. 30 Wolvie places a 99 countdown tile on a tile of his opponent's choice. If for some reason, it manages to go off, Wolvie clumsily scratches towards your general direction dealing a whooping 1 damage to the target and 10000 to himself. And and the goons, instead generating red, actually consume red without doing nothing. And and when you finish the battle, you are rewarded with 13 covers of the colours of your choice of the 4* character of your choice and a million iso.

So it really doesn't matter if you have 3 characters that move or just 1 because either scenario means you get a turn. Now, it really sucks hard when Hood is matched with Maggia, and Wolvie is matched with ninjas and CMags is matched with someone that generates his blue and red and Doom is matched with his bots. They all have high ap one shot powers that are intentionally kept that way so that it doesn't happen very often, but that is not what happens because those characters are generating ap, the goons are generating ap and then multiple one shot powers are coming out every 2-3 turns. It would be nice if the goons/ninja/whoever was matched with someone that didn't use their own colors. That would be fair. Then the character can generate their own ap for their abilities just like us. The whole reason for goons/ninja/bots/etc to self generate ap is because they can't move the board. This is fine but I still don't like that the board has 3 reds that I need to get an ability to go off but they are all in the 3 separate corners while the goons/ninjas/bots/etc are generating the exact ap they need. Now this is mitigated by the fact that their abilities have cd so you can match them off. Also, most turns we generate just 3 ap. The goons EACH generate 3+ ap, so if you are facing multiples, they are ready to fire off an ability by the second turn sometimes. I have said it before and will say it again...the goons/ninjas/bots/etc should generate a percentage of the colors that are on the board. If this was the case, they could lower the cd number or get rid of it all together, since then we could try to deny the color like we do in pvp or other characters. Also, some goons generate 3 countdown with the countdown starting at 3. So unless the board is flush with those colors, you are definitely getting hit. How many times have you had 5-6 countdown tiles which are all about to go off in the next 2 turns and you haven't even fired one ability because the board has been completely naked of the colors you need. That is not skill, that is just plain luck.

TheViceroy

She Hulk's Green is surprisingly useful here if it's available to you.
Goons generally only generate AP two total colors per goon (except those a-hole ones that use Caltrops), and if you have 5 Green, you drop BOTH of these colors to 0!
Well, the colors it chooses to drop to 0 are random, so if the non-goon opponent makes matches in other colors the chance is there for her Green to pick one of those, but it's still been VERY helpful so far.

In her essential nodes, it's been her, Lazy Cap, & Falcon for me.
Who would have thought She Hulk's Green would actually be useful/good?

Unknown

Those feeding goons also have red powers, and sometimes you'll get lucky and they'll spend all the red AP on an easy-to-match Strength in Numbers or Meteor Hammer CD. I wonder if their decision to use those powers is effected by who you target first, but I've never noticed any conclusive evidence of this.

Oh well, you can't win them all, and you can take comfort in the fact that the other players in your bracket can't win them all either. It's a tough node even for the expert players.

Malcrof

Grum9ski wrote:

Those feeding goons also have red powers, and sometimes you'll get lucky and they'll spend all the red AP on an easy-to-match Strength in Numbers or Meteor Hammer CD. I wonder if their decision to use those powers is effected by who you target first, but I've never noticed any conclusive evidence of this.

Oh well, you can't win them all, and you can take comfort in the fact that the other players in your bracket can't win them all either. It's a tough node even for the expert players.

I was just wondering about this in PVP, it does appear whoever i bring out front to attack, is who the AI tries to get tiles for.

For example, if a 2* Storm is there, i brought her to the front, and given all the options, she went for blue every time, even though SW and GSBW (who i was fighting) had no use for them, and all 3 had green abilities.

I have also noticed the AI tends to go for matches that benefit the featured character quite a bit in PVP. When nothing for the front character is available. since i was fighting a loaner SW, she did not have a blue ability, so when blue was not available, it always went for purple if there was one.

Oddly, all 3 if you have at least 1 of each cover have green abilities, the AI ignored green for the most part.