The Comic book versions of...

Arondite

shade_tree wrote:

ShionSinX wrote:

shade_tree wrote:

Arondite wrote:

How is hulk going to lift it while being unworthy? Brute strength? When even cosmic entities and entities like Odin can't lift it with brute strength? Come on. come on.

Are you actually trying to apply logic to comic books?

Where did this come from? Saying that "not even Odin can so Hulk couldnt" has nothing to do with "logic" outside of their fictional universe.

To say that Odin can't do it so neither can Hulk is a basic sort of logic, doesn't matter the basis of the "facts" that form the logic. The problem is that Hulk is the strongest there is and only gets stronger as he gets more angry so "logically" at some point his anger would allow him to lift the hammer which contradicts the original "logic" involving Odin. That's why I asked if he was wanting to apply logic here and not just go with story lines instead; in which case, Hulk wins. Always.

Is this a joke post?

Zeus is slightly weaker than Odin in physical strenght and positively MERC'D an enraged Hulk in a straight out slugfest, commenting afterward that he restrained himself to a battle of punches because that was the type of combat Hulk uses.


Hulk wins? Always? Are you sure?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... al2001.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... al2001.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... al2001.jpg

And let's not overlook the fact that Thor was actually created as a character to be more powerful than the Hulk. That was his entire point.

So just let me know when Hulk hits someone so hard, it cracks a planet he's not even on.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... -32732.jpg

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

Is this a joke post?

The whole idea of "debating" who would win based on mythology or comics or "logic" is pretty funny. Thor used to be a god, now he's at best a demi-god because the American movie-going public would be offended otherwise, and Hulk loves Black Widow. What's the world coming to?

Arondite

shade_tree wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Is this a joke post?

The whole idea of "debating" who would win based on mythology or comics or "logic" is pretty funny. Thor used to be a god, now he's at best a demi-god because the American movie-going public would be offended otherwise, and Hulk loves Black Widow. What's the world coming to?

You're copping out and backpedaling.

This thread doesn't say anything about movies, so there's no need to mention them here. I said comic books, you said hulk wins, I proved you wrong. Next.

Unknown

I'm fun at parties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4_zFYnnn2Y

DaveR4470

Arondite wrote:

shade_tree wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Is this a joke post?

The whole idea of "debating" who would win based on mythology or comics or "logic" is pretty funny. Thor used to be a god, now he's at best a demi-god because the American movie-going public would be offended otherwise, and Hulk loves Black Widow. What's the world coming to?

You're copping out and backpedaling.

This thread doesn't say anything about movies, so there's no need to mention them here. I said comic books, you said hulk wins, I proved you wrong. Next.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

shade_tree wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Is this a joke post?

The whole idea of "debating" who would win based on mythology or comics or "logic" is pretty funny. Thor used to be a god, now he's at best a demi-god because the American movie-going public would be offended otherwise, and Hulk loves Black Widow. What's the world coming to?

You're copping out and backpedaling.

This thread doesn't say anything about movies, so there's no need to mention them here. I said comic books, you said hulk wins, I proved you wrong. Next.

Is this a joke post?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/62148/2398207-1816191-hulk_crush_hammer_super.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/1938956-3.jpg

https://comicbookrants.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/hero-envy-hulkvsthor.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/03d89ab3fe7b118238963319b30994e8/tumblr_mmswbjHqd41r1mr1po1_500.gif

Next.

Arondite

shade_tree wrote:

Arondite wrote:

shade_tree wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Is this a joke post?

The whole idea of "debating" who would win based on mythology or comics or "logic" is pretty funny. Thor used to be a god, now he's at best a demi-god because the American movie-going public would be offended otherwise, and Hulk loves Black Widow. What's the world coming to?

You're copping out and backpedaling.

This thread doesn't say anything about movies, so there's no need to mention them here. I said comic books, you said hulk wins, I proved you wrong. Next.

Is this a joke post?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/62148/2398207-1816191-hulk_crush_hammer_super.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/1938956-3.jpg

https://comicbookrants.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/hero-envy-hulkvsthor.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IYoaJanweZs/Tq5u5PYJvTI/AAAAAAAAAeo/n3TxelLohn4/s640/Hero-Envy-Hulk-VS-Thor02.JPG

Next.

I reference two instances of PIS and you go and dig them up as proof of your argument? I don't think a comic book discussion has ever made me laugh quite so hard.

PIS stands for "Plot Induced Stupidity", which simply means the writer makes a character do something for a win that simply isn't possible, or makes one fighter that completely outclasses another job out like a loser (like all the times Spiderman has defeated the Hulk).

Of course Hulk can't crush Mjolnir. It's made of Uru. The actual Cosmics can't crush Uru, much less Hulk. That's a ridiculous moment and a golden example of PIS - not a usable feat.

And lifting the hammer has already been discussed - hitting Thor with his hammer by brute-strengthing it is a literal impossibility, therefore that's a non-feat.

If we were taking PIS scans and including them, I could show you the multiple times Hulk has lost to low level fighters like Spiderman and Wolverine to prove my point, but that's ridiculous because even though there were instances of a writer having a hard-on for Spidey/Wolvey, everyone and their dog knows those guys can't Touch Hulk.

Come on, now. Be serious.

Arondite

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There are about 40x as many showings of Thor beating Hulk - and they all fall logically within canon. For Hulk's few victories, they are made even fewer by the fact that over half of them can't be taken seriously, such as the scan you showed of Hulk crushing freaking Uru with freaking one palm. I can't stress enough that that is not a feat that can be taken seriously in the Marvel Universe.

Frankly, Hulks only thing is that he's strong. Thor has multi-planet busting attacks such as the Anti-Force, the Godblast, World-Wide Lightning (even without Mjolnir), energy absorption and magnification, etc. And to top off all his versatility and powers, he's every bit as physically strong as Hulk is.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... 18bff9.jpg

So in a straight out punch-to-punch fight we're looking at a 50/50 split. But this isnt' a punch out, it's a fight. Thor has flight - they fight on his terms. Thor has BFR - Hulk can't fight in the sun (Thor can). Thor has faster than Light-Speed movement - Hulk has been shown (numerous times) to be unable to deal with street-level speed-blitzers. Thor has the God Blast, for god's sakes, which would kill a hungry Galactus, by Galactus' own admission!


Also, Thor can
1- Slow Time
2- Speed Time
3- Stop Time
4- Steal / Sap Youth
5- Reverse / Deny / Rewrite Reality
6 - Time Travel (Past)
7 - Time Travel (Future)
Source: Journey Into Mystery number 85, 102, 110, and 122 and Thor number 164, 282, 178, 198, and 199

But don't worry - Hulk can punch things.

Morals on, it's like 60/40 Thor's way.
Morals off or Bloodlusted, it's a 100/0 Stomp in Thor's favor.

OnesOwnGrief

You two are seriously arguing comic books? You must be new at this. The winner is obviously whoever is written to win. Doesn't matter as to what reason or how, if that **** is on paper then it's a done deal unless someone retcons it. That is the only logic that applies here. In a fictional battle, the winner is whoever you want to win. Hell, even back to the OPs post, even Hawkeye can win because what does a moral viewpoint have to do with who wins a fight. The only time this matters is Punisher vs Cap because he just won't fight Cap.

Tannen

You're aware that the thor v hulk debate has been going on for as long as those characters have existed, right?

If it's any consolation, I read that Stan Lee once said in an interview that he'd consider Thor the winner. I consider this about as definitive as it comes.

Other than that, the current writers change who would win based on their own favourite/plot dependancy.

For example, The Hulk from WW Hulk kicked the **** out of black bolt (retconned, he was a skrull) and fought sentry to a standstill. He manages to defeat all the heroes that he encounters by a hefty margin, all the while chanting "The angrier Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets." Is there a limit to the power that he can gain this way, or is it a plot device to make the story better? -- I suspect the latter; it would have made a pretty poor story if super angry hulk came back to earth and then was defeated before he'd even entered earth's atmosphere.

Other considerations... How much of Odinson's power is now gone as he is no longer worthy of lifting Mjolnir? Could current Thor beat Hulk or would she have issues as Odinson has his own set of powers, besides what is granted by Mjolnir?

How long is a piece of string?

Cheers.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

Come on, now. Be serious.

Why? This is a silly "debate" that you clearly just want to "win" by taking the strongest, although most boring, character.

Malcrof

Arondite wrote:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... 18bff9.jpg

Namor FTW!

I have to say, this thread brings me back to my high school days, sitting around playing D&D and arguing over comic books (it was the 80's, we didn't have much else to do) .. thank you everyone for the fun of this thread!

Arondite

shade_tree wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Come on, now. Be serious.

Why? This is a silly "debate" that you clearly just want to "win" by taking the strongest, although most boring, character.

If you think it's silly, don't participate. No one required you to waste your time here.

I find it fun and serious.

As for wanting to win, I don't care for Thor any particular way. If I could hand pick a winner, it'd be Tony. But the fact is morals off, Thor rofl-stomps the rest of them. That's not wanting anything, it's just the cold hard facts.