Thanks for A Fun PVP!

Unknown

Joined the QS PVP in the 1:00 EST slice with 60 minutes to play, was expecting to see the usual gimmee 70 points but had some maxed teams up first, skipped them, found good matches, and ended up scoring 350 points for a top 25 win.

The problems experienced in the last few PVPs were gone - winnable (although more difficult) matches with minimal skipping, points ranging from 25 - 40 rather than sub-20, and enough variety in opponents that it was possible to rotate in some less-powerful chars and not just play the A-team. The only major difference compared to how it was before the recent MMR and character changes was the overall reduction in scoring rate - used to be able to hit 550 in an hour of solid play but the matches take longer.

This PVP was much better: I'm glad that D3 is listening to the complaints here and tweaking.

Unknown

Just posting a reply to bump this back up, but I think it's funny in a sad way that ANY negative post to this forum, even the LCD ones whinging about "AI cheating", get multiple replies in agreement but a positive topic thanking the devs for doing something right can just drop off the front page.

An unhappy customer is just so much more likely to vent than a happy one, I guess.

cyineedsn

Um. Aren't you kind of glossing over a negative that is in your own post? By your own admission, (I assume this is due to all the health buffs), what used to take an hour to score 550 points now only nets 350 points. And....you are happy with this?

Unknown

I did better in the QS event, too. I've never (I think) scored top 50 in a PvP but I did in this one. I'm used to losing 100 points or more in the last hour (I don't usually buy shields as I want to spend the HP on roster slots) and I only lost 21 this time which let me finish up top.

It was also the first time I've scored over 600 points in a PvP.

udonomefoo

Well, I'd think the lack of a response is because no one knows whether they did listen and make changes since they haven't posted anything in a week and a half. Far as I can tell, nothing has changed. You maybe got lucky and faced easier matches because there weren't many people in your bracket with higher rosters. Congrats on the high placement.

Unknown

The last QS event seemed a lot closer to pre-shield cooldown PVPs. I climbed to 600 a day before relatively easy and decided to stop for the day. Coming back 4 hours before the event, I had lost 250, so figured I'd just try for the 650 token and see if I could get to 800. Fighting past 625 was a little too vicious and I decided shielding wasn't worth the token or T50 vs T100, so settled down taking a few matches to ensure I'd stay t100.

For myself, having the health buffs means I don't need to be as defensively minded during the matches. I can go for the quicker win, allowing a few more hits. The health buff has actually resulted in a faster play style for me, though I know I'm not the norm.

MarvelMan

To start positive: congrats on the placement!


Then to play devils advocate as well as point some things out:
1) You only ended up with 350 points when you previously would have had 550....is that better? Its less ISO, and probably more spent on boosts since the match ups were more even.
2) Your higher placement....it came at someones expense. My take is that with people clustering closer together due to fewer matches, it creates a more luck intensive environment. Like you were lucky not to show in someones queue that would have wanted to hit you, you were lucky to finish your matches when you did, you were lucky to get the opponents you saw, etc. Is that better? I doubt it. People like to feel in control of their placement.
3) Not seeing seed teams deprives you of the easy iso from them, as well as the points. Is that better? No.
4) The rewards are "meh" because they have been given out in DPDQ, a recent PVP as well as the just passed PVP.....so people werent really interested. Makes it tough to accurately gauge how it really was.
5) There hasnt been much red post recently, so its entirely possible there were NO changes....and you just have confirmation bias. Or they could have tweaked things......and said nothing about it. During a season. On a PVP with a new char. And that would be good how?
6) Since you saw decent teams the entire time, did you use your A team for every battle? If yes, where is the diversity in what people use they are trying to promote?

So, I like that you came on to say something positive. I truly do. But there is a lot that can be taken from your experience, very little of it good.

Arimis_Thorn

I've been consistently scoring higher placement-wise, but across the board lower progression-wise.

Unknown

The points raised by MarvelMan above likely contributed to your high placement.

I myself scored a 1st place with 650 points about 5 rounds ago. I won and a load of covers that nobody else wanted

I think you just have to be lucky in joining one of the last groups.
Groups that contain fewer & newer players so you get hit, likely never + win attacks.

That was the first time I'd hit 1st after growing my roster.

ZootSax

Since the KK PVP I saw my first (non-seed) roster below level 85 this event...and, ironically, it far and away gave the most points (42--every other match was in the 17-32 range, with very few above the 22-24 range). It also seemed like I finally started losing less points for being smashed by maxed 3-star teams (I never lost more than 8 points from an attack--I never exceeded 312 points, for reference--in previous events, I would typically lose 12-18 each defensive loss, while maxing my progression in the 300-425 range). Otherwise, I noticed no difference in MMR from previous events, with 95% of my matchups being maxed Ares/Daken/Thor/MNMags/CStorm plus a loaner. Perhaps the lower number of 2-star characters makes it harder to not face the same 5-6 level 94 characters repeatedly. Who knows? Still, I'll agree it was a net-positive change from the past few events. I'll just be happy if I can make the 3,000 progression this season which seems much more likely than it did a week ago.

snlf25

I'm enjoying the same situation in the Simulator to a degree, OP. I'm cleaning up with minimal effort because nobody cares about the progression reward 3* Iron Man (Canned Beast), which sucks, and most everybody has the Lazy Cap placement prize. I've been playing to bank iso and earn Simulator tokens. I've sold my 2* cap and started a second 3* since there are so many of his covers up for grabs right now. My strategy has paid off in spades too because I won a Nick Fury from one of the simulator tokens the same day I won a Lazy Thor green from a Taco Token. I won my 5th yellow LThor from DDP today and he is now 3/5/5. I won a Cyclops from the taco token today. That is why I am willing to grind for event tokens. If I'd given up I would have missed out. The possibilities of winning something good from an event Token are very high comparatively.

Vhailorx

I also noticed that the quicksilver PVP was much easier than those events run with the revised new MMR instituted on 4/13.

I typically join events with 48-24 hours left and play up to the equilibrium point. Then in the last 3-16 hours I will make a final climb, shield hopping if I want higher scores. In the first several revised MMR events I was consistently being hit anytime I crossed 400, and was sometimes getting retaliated above 270. In blue shift I was able to climb to climb from 300 to 800 in the last 5 hours of the event (finishing my climb with about 2.5 hours left) without getting attacked once.

I don't think MMR changed at all on the back end because I was getting similar opponents (maybe a tiny bit easier, but not much). Instead I think the difference stemmed from a couple of factors: (1) most importantly, the rewards for this event were quite undesirable as mystique is a mid tier character introduced almost 6 months ago; (2) I switched from my cover maxed but under leveled xforce to a max luke cage, which I think discouraged attacks; (3) MMR is sorting itself out so that any odd artifacts created by switching systems have started to get smoothed over with accurate performance data; and (4) players are adapting to the new mmr system, figuring what is a "good" and "bad" opponent to target.

I would be curious to hear if 2* and early 3* players also had an easier time with this event.

snlf25

I attributed that to BagSilver being BagSilver and nobody wanting to play with him. He slows play down too much and I will never use him as he is now. The Mystique event wont be a good one to judge anythig from either with LazyCap as the prize most wont be pushing very hard. Wait until Cage or Fist or Cyclops are the placement prizes and then we will get a real idea of what kind of hell the system will be.

Pylgrim

shade_tree wrote:

Joined the QS PVP in the 1:00 EST slice with 60 minutes to play, was expecting to see the usual gimmee 70 points but had some maxed teams up first, skipped them, found good matches, and ended up scoring 350 points for a top 25 win.

The problems experienced in the last few PVPs were gone - winnable (although more difficult) matches with minimal skipping, points ranging from 25 - 40 rather than sub-20, and enough variety in opponents that it was possible to rotate in some less-powerful chars and not just play the A-team. The only major difference compared to how it was before the recent MMR and character changes was the overall reduction in scoring rate - used to be able to hit 550 in an hour of solid play but the matches take longer.

This PVP was much better: I'm glad that D3 is listening to the complaints here and tweaking.

They have been tweaking all the time, not only as a result of "complaints". There is a goal and getting there sadly necessitates lots of trial and error because the experiences of millions of players cannot be properly replicated during playtesting with a few people. We just need to remember this instead creating ten threads about how the devs are either Machiavellian villains or incompetent **** every time a new PVP starts and it doesn't adjust to what people think it should be.

The devs need feedback but I wish we could reduce the amount of angry **** while doing so.

Unknown

MarvelMan wrote:

To start positive: congrats on the placement!


Then to play devils advocate as well as point some things out:
1) You only ended up with 350 points when you previously would have had 550....is that better? Its less ISO, and probably more spent on boosts since the match ups were more even.
2) Your higher placement....it came at someones expense. My take is that with people clustering closer together due to fewer matches, it creates a more luck intensive environment. Like you were lucky not to show in someones queue that would have wanted to hit you, you were lucky to finish your matches when you did, you were lucky to get the opponents you saw, etc. Is that better? I doubt it. People like to feel in control of their placement.
3) Not seeing seed teams deprives you of the easy iso from them, as well as the points. Is that better? No.
4) The rewards are "meh" because they have been given out in DPDQ, a recent PVP as well as the just passed PVP.....so people werent really interested. Makes it tough to accurately gauge how it really was.
5) There hasnt been much red post recently, so its entirely possible there were NO changes....and you just have confirmation bias. Or they could have tweaked things......and said nothing about it. During a season. On a PVP with a new char. And that would be good how?
6) Since you saw decent teams the entire time, did you use your A team for every battle? If yes, where is the diversity in what people use they are trying to promote?

So, I like that you came on to say something positive. I truly do. But there is a lot that can be taken from your experience, very little of it good.

1. No boosts used (as usual), ISO rewards lower with fewer wins. Points don't matter to me, only placement - the Season 10-pack is not worth the effort so there's no reason to pile up points and my alliance doesn't have a minimum PVP score.
2. As a late-starter, my placement is totally in my control. There is no such thing as luck.
3. Having no seed teams actually boosted my final score - rather than spending time on just 70 points I was able to get 100+ from the first three matches. Will be skipping seed teams from now on if the current MMR format remains in place.
4. Rewards weren't *meh* for those wishing to re-purpose their Mystique post-PX nerf of MNMags. I saw no evidence that scores were lower or fewer people were playing.
5. Confirmation bias requires that the observer wants to find something specific in the data - that's not the case here.
6. Didn't have to use A team and didn't have to buy health packs, was able to rotate some lower-level chars into the matches.

Actually, most of it was quite good but your confirmation bias is keeping you from seeing it.

Unknown

Vhailorx wrote:

(3) MMR is sorting itself out so that any odd artifacts created by switching systems have started to get smoothed over with accurate performance data...

This is entirely possible and my improved experience might just be that the system is working out the kinks.

I really just wanted to post something that wasn't a complaint or a rage quit to let the devs know that while some (very vocal) vets are unhappy some of us are giving them time and figuring out how to adjust to the changes.

Unknown

I definitely noticed the same improvements, about to snag my 10 token pack which I thought would be unreachable after those initial changes.

MarvelMan

shade_tree wrote:

2. As a late-starter, my placement is totally in my control. There is no such thing as luck.
3. Having no seed teams actually boosted my final score - rather than spending time on just 70 points I was able to get 100+ from the first three matches. Will be skipping seed teams from now on if the current MMR format remains in place.
4. Rewards weren't *meh* for those wishing to re-purpose their Mystique post-PX nerf of MNMags. I saw no evidence that scores were lower or fewer people were playing.
5. Confirmation bias requires that the observer wants to find something specific in the data - that's not the case here.
6. Didn't have to use A team and didn't have to buy health packs, was able to rotate some lower-level chars into the matches.

Actually, most of it was quite good but your confirmation bias is keeping you from seeing it.

2) There is DEFINITELY "luck". Like I indicated, "luck" controls who sees you and what matches you get. And with fewer matches played, it has a larger effect on you.
3) Might just be me, but I can rip out those first three seed teams faster than I can the next two matches. Those three get me to 70 points, which means they are the equivalent of ~35 point "normal" matches. And no chance of retals.
4) Pretty much still "meh." Yes, they let me repurpose Mystaque as well, but aside from her PVP are you really going to use her? Even if a few of us have big plans for her (I dont) if the community sees the rewards as carp, the push in general isnt as hard so not as tall a mountain to climb.
5) You seem to want to find that there were MM changes. The devs have been very good about telling us about those.....and they have said nothing. Logic would suggest they allow several PVPs to go by in order to have a larger data pool before they make additional adjustments.
6) Interesting. Mind telling us which teams you used? Im curious because I get hit almost from the start these days, even using Thoress/Thor with XF at sub 100 pts....so any team that can cause a few people to skip (and it seems you managed that, although it could just be low score at the end of an event) is gold.

I dont disagree that good that has come out of it. I just think that a broader view of the changes, and context for one experience, is needed.

Unknown

MarvelMan wrote:

2) There is DEFINITELY "luck". Like I indicated, "luck" controls who sees you and what matches you get. And with fewer matches played, it has a larger effect on you.
3) Might just be me, but I can rip out those first three seed teams faster than I can the next two matches. Those three get me to 70 points, which means they are the equivalent of ~35 point "normal" matches. And no chance of retals.
4) Pretty much still "meh." Yes, they let me repurpose Mystaque as well, but aside from her PVP are you really going to use her? Even if a few of us have big plans for her (I dont) if the community sees the rewards as carp, the push in general isnt as hard so not as tall a mountain to climb.
5) You seem to want to find that there were MM changes. The devs have been very good about telling us about those.....and they have said nothing. Logic would suggest they allow several PVPs to go by in order to have a larger data pool before they make additional adjustments.
6) Interesting. Mind telling us which teams you used? Im curious because I get hit almost from the start these days, even using Thoress/Thor with XF at sub 100 pts....so any team that can cause a few people to skip (and it seems you managed that, although it could just be low score at the end of an event) is gold.

2. No, there is no such thing as luck in MPQ (or in anything else) - it's just superstition that people use to explain something they don't understand or feel they can't control.
3. No retals in late-starting so that's not a consideration, only scoring quickly and consistently. If they put the seeds back in, I'll probably take them but it might be worth skipping a few to get to larger matches. I'll have to try it both ways to decide.
4. Yes, Mystique with 3/5/5 is a P/Bk feeder and her black does 5K dmg, so she'll see a lot of use in early PVP matches and in PVE. The AI plays her quite aggressively on defense, too.
5. I don't want to find a reason to think that they made a change - I was just reporting that this PVP was actually fun compared to the last few. Prior to the changes I was hitting Top 5 on every PVP where I wanted the covers, Top 10 if not, and then suddenly could barely get Top 100. This PVP allowed me to use my regular strategy and get Top 25 and if I'd started five minutes sooner and finished the last fight in time I would have hit Top 10.
6. Hulk/Patch, Fathor/Blade, Cyclops/DD, etc. Nothing special, just big enough to make most people skip in that last hour. Late-starting is a different style of play.

optimus2861

Vhailorx wrote:

I would be curious to hear if 2* and early 3* players also had an easier time with this event.

I am such a player, and I have absolutely despised these MMR changes. My season score, which hit 4000 in the previous two seasons, now won't even reach 3000. Getting to 300 in any PVP now is an absolute slog (I barely cleared 200 in Quicksilver's). I joined Mystique's PVP this morning, in a pretty fresh bracket, and not one seed team appeared. All three opponents were near level 94, one had a 122 Mystique. Can I win the fights? Yeah. Will I eat health packs afterward? Yeah.

And let's not start on Shield Simulator. That's an utter disaster. Slog it out with another triple-94 team for 70 ISO and junk progression awards? No freaking thanks. My score which used to top 800 is now stuck at 300.

This is not fun. There are only so many combinations of viable 2* teams and I need those same chars for PVE and DDQ. I only have a couple of usable 3* guys so far.

I felt like I was finally making progress and it has been viciously clawed back from me. Going from 4000 to 2500 in a season is just plain discouraging, especially since my roster didn't get weaker; an algorithm got changed.

MarvelMan

shade_tree wrote:

2. No, there is no such thing as luck in MPQ (or in anything else) - it's just superstition that people use to explain something they don't understand or feel they can't control.
3. No retals in late-starting so that's not a consideration, only scoring quickly and consistently. If they put the seeds back in, I'll probably take them but it might be worth skipping a few to get to larger matches. I'll have to try it both ways to decide.
4. Yes, Mystique with 3/5/5 is a P/Bk feeder and her black does 5K dmg, so she'll see a lot of use in early PVP matches and in PVE. The AI plays her quite aggressively on defense, too.
5. I don't want to find a reason to think that they made a change - I was just reporting that this PVP was actually fun compared to the last few. Prior to the changes I was hitting Top 5 on every PVP where I wanted the covers, Top 10 if not, and then suddenly could barely get Top 100. This PVP allowed me to use my regular strategy and get Top 25 and if I'd started five minutes sooner and finished the last fight in time I would have hit Top 10.
6. Hulk/Patch, Fathor/Blade, Cyclops/DD, etc. Nothing special, just big enough to make most people skip in that last hour. Late-starting is a different style of play.

2) There is most definitely luck. They randomize the op pulls, both for and against you. Therefore not getting drawn from the hat, and having good draws yourself, IS luck. As someone who starts late you are also more affected by that as having to skip multiple times slows you down. As does getting hit by other late(r) starters.
5) You're implying they made changes between the ones where you couldnt get T100 vs almost making T10. They have not said they did, there is no reason to think they did. So why would this PVP be any more "fun" than those previous, unless its an anomaly based on nothing they did....like less than good rewards/lack of interest. Hint: both bad for the game.