What happened to a casual puzzle quest game

freakygeek

My wife and I started playing this the day it came out as we were addicted to PQ1 and PQ2. My wife will no longer play the PVP events as she is sick of the xxx defeated you notifications and losing all of her progression points. She still played the PVE but is about to quit with the latest tournament. She has no strong 3 * characters as she is a casual player. When she went to the second level and was faced with level 250 maggia there was a huge decline in the fun factor. How to tank is not a discussion she wants to have. Then her two go to characters (Thor and Wolverine) got nuked (I mean nerfed) and fun factor dropped again. Then the boosts got moved to cost money and the fun factor goes down again. Yes, all the hard core players are getting HP grinding on the tournaments and placing high in the PVE events, but a casual gamer won't. I have some reasonably high level 3 *'s so my impact was far less than hers. I cannot imagine someone coming into this game now and not getting discouraged and leaving. The PVP is unforgiving to newbies (lighting rounds are pointless for those without leveled up 3* villians) and the PVE is now as well. I thought 'The Hunt' was great as it had levels anyone could play and levels for the hard core players as well. This new mode of totally destroying you on the very first match of a PVE level is demoralizing. I have been PVP grinding since the beginning so I have every character in the game but I don't know anyone else who does and when you hit levels that require a character that you don't have it is demoralizing as well. Yes, you can keep buying tokens for that even until you get the character you want but rolling for a 4* (Invisible Woman) is nigh impossible and I have found 9/10 you get the **** character (how many heroic tokens doled out a Daken?).

Maybe in addition to these premium pay to play PVP tournaments and hardcore PVE ginds there can be some basic PVE for the casual gamers? Low ISO, no required characters but casually fun. You don't need to offer up the latest and greatest awesome character as a reward. You don't even need to do ranked PVE necessarily, just something fun to progress through.

Unknown

The devs have already said that the scaling on the battles was not predicted according to their in house testing, and have to tweak the code so that it is more in line with the way they want it to work. Unfortunately, that takes some time to do, and isn't an instant band - aid type fix we all would like.

That being said, the changes to thor and wolvie were needed. Not only was it her go to team, but it was everyone else's, their best friend, mother, and dogs go to team as well. The changes were needed to diversify team composition. That doesn't make it any less fun, it just means that players will have to find what works for them, instead of God tier characters every time. Both of them are still viable picks, they just play slightly differently than before.

Looking into other team camp's now will take some time, but thus game wasn't built on the premise of max 3 characters and then you are done. If it was, I myself would have gotten rather bored quite quickly. Experimenting with different team ups is part of the fun of this game. So much variety exists, but it was overshadowed by how patently powerful those two were.

It will be a long journey, but all hope is not lost. They have even given players the option to sell them for a good chunk of iso, which would give a large boost to whoever you think you might like to buff up now.

Unknown

Skyedyne wrote:

The devs have already said that the scaling on the battles was not predicted according to their in house testing, and have to tweak the code so that it is more in line with the way they want it to work. Unfortunately, that takes some time to do, and isn't an instant band - aid type fix we all would like.

That being said, the changes to thor and wolvie were needed. Not only was it her go to team, but it was everyone else's, their best friend, mother, and dogs go to team as well. The changes were needed to diversify team composition. That doesn't make it any less fun, it just means that players will have to find what works for them, instead of God tier characters every time. Both of them are still viable picks, they just play slightly differently than before.

Looking into other team camp's now will take some time, but thus game wasn't built on the premise of max 3 characters and then you are done. If it was, I myself would have gotten rather bored quite quickly. Experimenting with different team ups is part of the fun of this game. So much variety exists, but it was overshadowed by how patently powerful those two were.

It will be a long journey, but all hope is not lost. They have even given players the option to sell them for a good chunk of iso, which would give a large boost to whoever you think you might like to buff up now.

It means a lot of us only had max characters on the nerf or to be nerfed list. It doesn't matter about diversity when we've out time and $$$ I to levelling covers and then they are made worthless. Sure, we can sell Thor and wolvie at a premium, it isn't nearly enough for us to fill that roster slot. We didn't get anything in return from Loki or storm c or rags.

She prolly had no one else above level 50. My personal roster was
Rags - 115
Thor - 85
Wolvie- 85
Magneto c - 80
Spidey - 75
Doctor doom 75
Ares 75

My whole top 5 got/ is getting wiped out in very close succession.
Also look back to the thick of thieves thread. Look how many hours some of us put in, how much ISO we lost boosting to keep our leads. Any1 who says we don't have a right to be incredibly pissed and say whatever we want about this horse **** is full of that themselves. You can't fk people over, not compensate them, and expect nothing.

Unknown

Skyedyne wrote:

The devs have already said that the scaling on the battles was not predicted according to their in house testing, and have to tweak the code so that it is more in line with the way they want it to work. Unfortunately, that takes some time to do, and isn't an instant band - aid type fix we all would like.

That being said, the changes to thor and wolvie were needed. Not only was it her go to team, but it was everyone else's, their best friend, mother, and dogs go to team as well. The changes were needed to diversify team composition. That doesn't make it any less fun, it just means that players will have to find what works for them, instead of God tier characters every time. Both of them are still viable picks, they just play slightly differently than before.

Looking into other team camp's now will take some time, but thus game wasn't built on the premise of max 3 characters and then you are done. If it was, I myself would have gotten rather bored quite quickly. Experimenting with different team ups is part of the fun of this game. So much variety exists, but it was overshadowed by how patently powerful those two were.

It will be a long journey, but all hope is not lost. They have even given players the option to sell them for a good chunk of iso, which would give a large boost to whoever you think you might like to buff up now.

This is something I really hate about these forums. Anytime someone come in with a well-written thoughtful criticism, there's always some hardcore guy who has to come in and tell you how wrong you are (even if it's particularly nice, like this one).

Well OP, I agree with you. With PvP and PvE tournaments both kinda unattainable for the casuals, there's really not much to do. I think your idea about introducing some mid-level content with mid-level rewards is really inspired. There's a big gap between the Prologue pve missions and the tournaments. Filling that gap is a good way to keep the non-hardcore interested.

And to Skyedyne: experimenting with other teams is really difficult when you can't rank high enough to get the rewards to build another team. Flavor of the month now is a combination of Punisher, Hulk, Patch and OBW. If you don't have enough covers for those guys to be useful, you're pretty much back to being completely uncompetitive and hoping for a 3* from a Standard Token (good luck!).

NotYou13

Has the possibility of separating progression rewards from the event rating ever been explored? One seemingly simple way of giving something to both casual and hardcore players is to separate the progression rewards out. This could allow the casuals to build progression without the randomness of other people knocking them down while still leaving the ranking rewards for the more hardcore. Thoughts?

Unknown

I've only been playing this game for about three weeks. My highest level character is 2* 69 Ares. From my short amount of time playing, I get the impression the devs balance entirely around the hardcore. The reason for this must be that is where the money is. Every single change that has come out has been about forcing people to spend money to stay at the top of leaderboards. There have been 0 changes to improve little used 1 or 2 * characters, which is what I imagine the vast majority of the playerbase is using, but they probably aren't spending money. I mean, if you are going to nerf two 2* characters, shouldn't you buff two at the same time?

Unknown

Stillhart wrote:

Skyedyne wrote:

The devs have already said that the scaling on the battles was not predicted according to their in house testing, and have to tweak the code so that it is more in line with the way they want it to work. Unfortunately, that takes some time to do, and isn't an instant band - aid type fix we all would like.

That being said, the changes to thor and wolvie were needed. Not only was it her go to team, but it was everyone else's, their best friend, mother, and dogs go to team as well. The changes were needed to diversify team composition. That doesn't make it any less fun, it just means that players will have to find what works for them, instead of God tier characters every time. Both of them are still viable picks, they just play slightly differently than before.

Looking into other team camp's now will take some time, but thus game wasn't built on the premise of max 3 characters and then you are done. If it was, I myself would have gotten rather bored quite quickly. Experimenting with different team ups is part of the fun of this game. So much variety exists, but it was overshadowed by how patently powerful those two were.

It will be a long journey, but all hope is not lost. They have even given players the option to sell them for a good chunk of iso, which would give a large boost to whoever you think you might like to buff up now.

This is something I really hate about these forums. Anytime someone come in with a well-written thoughtful criticism, there's always some hardcore guy who has to come in and tell you how wrong you are (even if it's particularly nice, like this one).

Well OP, I agree with you. With PvP and PvE tournaments both kinda unattainable for the casuals, there's really not much to do. I think your idea about introducing some mid-level content with mid-level rewards is really inspired. There's a big gap between the Prologue pve missions and the tournaments. Filling that gap is a good way to keep the non-hardcore interested.

And to Skyedyne: experimenting with other teams is really difficult when you can't rank high enough to get the rewards to build another team. Flavor of the month now is a combination of Punisher, Hulk, Patch and OBW. If you don't have enough covers for those guys to be useful, you're pretty much back to being completely uncompetitive and hoping for a 3* from a Standard Token (good luck!).

Find the point where I said they were wrong? I just pointed out they are looking at it from only their perspective and not from the perspective of all the people who got fkd over.

Unknown

Banin wrote:

I've only been playing this game for about three weeks. My highest level character is 2* 69 Ares. From my short amount of time playing, I get the impression the devs balance entirely around the hardcore. The reason for this must be that is where the money is. Every single change that has come out has been about forcing people to spend money to stay at the top of leaderboards. There have been 0 changes to improve little used 1 or 2 * characters, which is what I imagine the vast majority of the playerbase is using, but they probably aren't spending money. I mean, if you are going to nerf two 2* characters, shouldn't you buff two at the same time?

Well to turn a profit you have to make money. Obviously there is a fine line that they have to tread - but 1 -2* characters I imagine are to get your feet wet. They are also free. You can eventually grind your way to much better rewards, but it will take time. Why would they buff characters that are free? Then people would have 0 urge to chase after better heroes.

The reason the 2* characters were nerfed was because they were stronger than a lot of 3* characters - which basically made it pointless to even go after them. It also devalued 3* heroes which were much harder or exclusive if you weren't paying for them.

Honestly, I'm a little torn as I can understand - but I've been gaming a long time and you really have to adjust to whatever changes come down the pipe line.

This game offers a ton of play time for realistically not needing to spend any money - especially compared to other games like puzzle dragons etc.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Find the point where I said they were wrong? I just pointed out they are looking at it from only their perspective and not from the perspective of all the people who got fkd over.

My post wasn't directed at you. As far as I can tell, we agree completely.

Unknown

Stillhart wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Find the point where I said they were wrong? I just pointed out they are looking at it from only their perspective and not from the perspective of all the people who got fkd over.

My post wasn't directed at you. As far as I can tell, we agree completely.

Gotcha. I had the immediate response so I just assumed. My main issue is the way things are done more than what things are done. Boosts prices may have been fine after a 10 day "bugged" tourney ended, not in the middle. Wolvie and Thor nerfs were needed, not during an avengers only tourney, Pve event where wolvie is buffed and both were required, and a wolvie pvp coming the next day. Finally as mentioned without proper compensation.


I'll probably stop ranting about this **** after the Pve event is over. Lmao


Edit: just read that shield prices doubled in a paid entry event midway also. That takes my point even further. Not sure how true this 1 is yet. I changed my mind about entering after they **** 2/3 of my worthy avengers.

Unknown

they raised prices, but the prices are back down to normal now.

Not sure if that was an oversight or accident.

Unknown

noobpotato wrote:

they raised prices, but the prices are back down to normal now.

Not sure if that was an oversight or accident.

Personally I find the existence of shields for HP in general as a money grab. Because there are shields, you HAVE to use them to be competitive. That's pure P2W and not cool. I get that they were put in to solve a problem, but the implementation just created a new problem.

My point? Pricing doesn't matter, they're **** in general.

Unknown

Well you don't have to use them...

If you eventually grind out an insane team that nobody can catch.
But I totally see what you're getting at. In the end they have to leverage these ways to make money it's an ugly balance.

I can usually grind my way to first or 2nd and shield up for 24 hours - usually recoup about half what I spent in HP and still end top 5.

Unknown

I finished in top 45 without using a shield, and that's about all I need from a tournament that offers no 3* I need. I mean, why spend 50 HP just so that I can sell 3 covers back instead of 1? Might as well let someone else have it.

Now, if there's a cover I want, then I got to play more and shield more, but that seems totally fair. Fighting for #1 is pretty tough, but only 1 out of 500 guys can be #1, so why shouldn't it be tough?

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

I finished in top 45 without using a shield, and that's about all I need from a tournament that offers no 3* I need. I mean, why spend 50 HP just so that I can sell 3 covers back instead of 1? Might as well let someone else have it.

Now, if there's a cover I want, then I got to play more and shield more, but that seems totally fair. Fighting for #1 is pretty tough, but only 1 out of 500 guys can be #1, so why shouldn't it be tough?

I can (could) get top 50ish with no shields before as well, and I agree it should be tough to get to the top spots. The problem is that to get those top spots you have to grind it out AND shield. Shielding costs HP (read: real money), which means that you literally HAVE TO pay to win the tournaments.

This wouldn't be so bad if the reward distribution made more sense. Here's an actionable suggestion: Make the top tier rewards be straight ISO+HP...like LOTS of ISO. Make the mid-tier rewards be covers. This means the folks in the middle have the covers to succeed but still need grind ISO to level up to the top tiers. The folks at the top get **** tons of ISO so they can get their 3* and 4* teams leveled higher. It's still a rich-get-richer kind of thing, but it means the mid-tier players aren't dependent on the RNG (the cover lottery) to even hope to progress.

Unknown

Stillhart wrote:

Phantron wrote:

I finished in top 45 without using a shield, and that's about all I need from a tournament that offers no 3* I need. I mean, why spend 50 HP just so that I can sell 3 covers back instead of 1? Might as well let someone else have it.

Now, if there's a cover I want, then I got to play more and shield more, but that seems totally fair. Fighting for #1 is pretty tough, but only 1 out of 500 guys can be #1, so why shouldn't it be tough?

I can (could) get top 50ish with no shields before as well, and I agree it should be tough to get to the top spots. The problem is that to get those top spots you have to grind it out AND shield. Shielding costs HP (read: real money), which means that you literally HAVE TO pay to win the tournaments.

This wouldn't be so bad if the reward distribution made more sense. Here's an actionable suggestion: Make the top tier rewards be straight ISO+HP...like LOTS of ISO. Make the mid-tier rewards be covers. This means the folks in the middle have the covers to succeed but still need grind ISO to level up to the top tiers. The folks at the top get **** tons of ISO so they can get their 3* and 4* teams leveled higher. It's still a rich-get-richer kind of thing, but it means the mid-tier players aren't dependent on the RNG (the cover lottery) to even hope to progress.

This would be correct - except you can win HP from missions/pve/pvp . selling covers etc.

So no you don't have to pay.

Unknown

noobpotato wrote:

This would be correct - except you can win HP from missions/pve/pvp . selling covers etc.

So no you don't have to pay.

The HP from missions is finite. HP from PvE is now only given out to the top 5 winners in subs (2.5%). HP from PvP... well you have to rank pretty high to get it and to rank pretty high you need to shield, which costs HP...

Also, how do you get HP from selling covers? I've been playing for months and never seen it... I'm guessing you must get it from selling 3* or 4* covers, and I've go nowhere near enough to sell them.

Unknown

noobpotato wrote:

Stillhart wrote:

Phantron wrote:

I finished in top 45 without using a shield, and that's about all I need from a tournament that offers no 3* I need. I mean, why spend 50 HP just so that I can sell 3 covers back instead of 1? Might as well let someone else have it.

Now, if there's a cover I want, then I got to play more and shield more, but that seems totally fair. Fighting for #1 is pretty tough, but only 1 out of 500 guys can be #1, so why shouldn't it be tough?

I can (could) get top 50ish with no shields before as well, and I agree it should be tough to get to the top spots. The problem is that to get those top spots you have to grind it out AND shield. Shielding costs HP (read: real money), which means that you literally HAVE TO pay to win the tournaments.

This wouldn't be so bad if the reward distribution made more sense. Here's an actionable suggestion: Make the top tier rewards be straight ISO+HP...like LOTS of ISO. Make the mid-tier rewards be covers. This means the folks in the middle have the covers to succeed but still need grind ISO to level up to the top tiers. The folks at the top get **** tons of ISO so they can get their 3* and 4* teams leveled higher. It's still a rich-get-richer kind of thing, but it means the mid-tier players aren't dependent on the RNG (the cover lottery) to even hope to progress.

This would be correct - except you can win HP from missions/pve/pvp . selling covers etc.

So no you don't have to pay.

I've never gotten HP from playing/winning anything pvp. PVE yes, but that was before the expensive boosts. I've only gotten 1 cover that gave me HP, The Hood. I got an extra one from gambling a 1 star card pack and got 25 HP. I probably got one of those after trading in 80 1 star cards in one go. A boost costs me 100 HP. That boost won't even let me get a leg up on much of the competition since whatever points i get i lose right away.

You are right though, you don't have to pay. But don't expect to exceed a lowly ranking in the game. This game is much like life. You need money to make money. This is not a game, it is an investment.

Unknown

That is kind if funny that a boost cost 4x more hp than we get from selling a 3* cover. Haha!

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

That is kind if funny that a boost cost 4x more hp than we get from selling a 3* cover. Haha!

Yeah, this game is the dark souls of any puzzle game. If you're not hardcore, get out. That seems to be the message the devs are saying. I have literally held almost 200 1 star cards because i knew they weren't going to give me anything useful. Always with the venom, the 1 star black widow, the 1 star storm, the useless hawkeye. hawkeye is maxxed out but I have not put any iso into him because that dude is just too weak. I have a fully maxxed out bag man that has no iso in him because, really, what can he do? All his powers cost 15+ and none of them do any damage. They also don't lock down. Why is he 3 star? A fully maxxed out bagman doesn't stand a chance with a maxxed out anything else. I don't even want to sell him because i'm afraid if I do, they'll boost him. Then I'm screwed.

Sue storm is also in that useless category. same with the first ironman that came out. Piddly damage, piddly life, piddly defensive attributes.

Unknown

More of the 1 star only tournaments they had a while back would help this I think. Maybe make them a regular weekly event like lightning rounds.