Another middle finger to the vets...

Unknown

So I'm at day 536, 52 roster slots, many two stars fully level'ed/covered since I played before 3* were the meta... And tons of 3* covered/leveled. Now all of a sudden we're making it easier to level up by reducing ISO costs and there will be no retroactive reimbursement for ANY of the ISO spent? How is that fair? With as big of an iso hole we're in, even if you gave us back the difference we're still gonna need more...

D3 is making it harder and harder to stick with em...

Someone please tell me they've heard otherwise...

DaveR4470

AFAIK nothing has been said, pro or con, about refunding the difference. They haven't even finalized the numbers on the change.

Punisher5784

We did not get compensated for the reduced roster slots so why would they compensate us for ISO?

It's annoying because they had no problem compensating players who bought alliance space before all alliances had 20, but maybe that was such a high cost that they decided not to do that again.

Regardless, you had the benefit of leveled up characters for over 500 days and I am sure you made your return on investment.

Arondite

Firebat86 wrote:

So I'm at day 536, 52 roster slots, many two stars fully level'ed/covered since I played before 3* were the meta... And tons of 3* covered/leveled. Now all of a sudden we're making it easier to level up by reducing ISO costs and there will be no retroactive reimbursement for ANY of the ISO spent? How is that fair? With as big of an iso hole we're in, even if you gave us back the difference we're still gonna need more...

D3 is making it harder and harder to stick with em...

Someone please tell me they've heard otherwise...

This is like, the only change that I feel complaining about is kind of silly.

Do you gripe or get mad when the price of a physical good goes down with age, particularly if it's one that you continually purchase in the future?

Imagine that tomorrow all video games go from ~65.95 for New Releases (3 Star Heroes) to 44.95 for New Releases (3 Star Heroes). More and less expensive games drop as well, but just as new releases are the cornerstone of the videogame market, 3 Stars appear to be the cornerstone of our game so we will focus on this.

You will directly benefit from this change if you continue to purchase these games going forward (read, if you continue to play MPQ). Sure, the same games will cost newer players less, but that also doesn't account for all the benefit you've already wrought from those games (heroes). Even if you hadn't gained any benefit from it, hey, you will going forward so it's all good, and it's not like it actually takes away from what you've already done. It's not like your heroes will suddenly be unleveled because of this.

The fact is, you bought the game (leveled your heroes) at the original price, so you felt the value was right for the payout before. If it's getting even better now, you certainly don't deserve a refund for that.

Seems to me you're too focused on relative progress to notice the boon to absolute progress this provides. I mean, this is essentially like being mad that DPD gives 3 stars / iso so easily when you had to work so hard to get them in the past.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

The fact is, you bought the game (leveled your heroes) at the original price, so you felt the value was right for the payout before. If it's getting even better now, you certainly don't deserve a refund for that.

+1 I was typing the same thing when you posted. The easier leveling for new players doesn't detract from the fun I've had playing my roster.

Arimis_Thorn

Firebat86 wrote:

So I'm at day 536, 52 roster slots, many two stars fully level'ed/covered since I played before 3* were the meta... And tons of 3* covered/leveled. Now all of a sudden we're making it easier to level up by reducing ISO costs and there will be no retroactive reimbursement for ANY of the ISO spent? How is that fair? With as big of an iso hole we're in, even if you gave us back the difference we're still gonna need more...

D3 is making it harder and harder to stick with em...

Someone please tell me they've heard otherwise...

It would certainly be a nice (albeit work intensive on their part) gesture, but I don't expect it to happen.

As to how is that fair? That goes something like this: Yes you spent more to get the same thing, but you got the benefit of it sooner and have been enjoying those benefits a lot longer. It's rather like those folks who wait in line to get the new Xbox or PlayStation on day 1. Then a year later, the console price gets dropped and a bunch of new customers get the exact same console for a good chunk less than you did. But you've been playing the best games on the shiny new system for a year.

This sort of thing happens all the time in games. Game economies stagnate and developers need to find new ways to breathe life into them, usually by making things more accessible to a larger number of people (and making things cheaper is often the way they do it).

So, is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. But it's kind of the status quo for Gaming in general.

babinro

100% support the devs choice to NOT refund players for spent ISO.

1) This change is being done as courtesy to the player base rather than a punishment. It makes the game more accessible for everyone and is being implemented in a way that doesn't show bias since levels are not being modified.

2) If players are so concerned about their ISO being devalued then why didn't they complain every single time more ISO was introduced to the game? Where's the refund requests for ddq's added influx of ISO? Or the 5000 ISO top 5 rewards?

Gaining more ISO is the same as spending less.
The net result is that it's easier to level characters.

They could have just as easily increased the flow of ISO to the game and players would have never complained. So why should you expect a refund now?

3) Giving D3 a hard time for making the game easier for all players will only serve to DISCOURAGE this action in the future. Giving out mass refunds for things like this ISO change or the Alliance 20 player cap means reduced profits to D3 at least in the short term. Give them a break. Let them feel as though they can make universal player friendly changes without having to 'pay' for it.

Unknown

babinro wrote:

100% support the devs choice to NOT refund players for spent ISO.

1) This change is being done as courtesy to the player base rather than a punishment. It makes the game more accessible for everyone and is being implemented in a way that doesn't show bias since levels are not being modified.

2) If players are so concerned about their ISO being devalued then why didn't they complain every single time more ISO was introduced to the game? Where's the refund requests for ddq's added influx of ISO? Or the 5000 ISO top 5 rewards?

Gaining more ISO is the same as spending less.
The net result is that it's easier to level characters.

They could have just as easily increased the flow of ISO to the game and players would have never complained. So why should you expect a refund now?

3) Giving D3 a hard time for making the game easier for all players will only serve to DISCOURAGE this action in the future. Giving out mass refunds for things like this ISO change or the Alliance 20 player cap means reduced profits to D3 at least in the short term. Give them a break. Let them feel as though they can make universal player friendly changes without having to 'pay' for it.

How is D3 "paying" for anything? How is it fair that because someone waited to level someone or started after you, their ISO goes further than yours? Lets take all the new characters. KK or KP for example who are part of the new meta, and there's been tons of ppl who have pumped their hard earned ISO in to them. They max the character out, but now, all that ISO isn't worth near as much because the price is lowering...? Again explain how this is fair? ISO is an in game currency EARNED by playing the game. Sure you can buy ISO packs, but it sure chaps my **** that because I've played for a lot longer I get to pay more to get the same thing in the end.

As for they should just increase the flow of ISO: Let's do it. That doesn't screw ANYONE over.

Also, as for me feeling the payout before because I had maxed 3*'s etc? LOL!! If crazy inflated PVE nodes and a nice wall of 4*'s is a payout then I think I need my head looked at...

NighteyesGrisu

...and the notebook I bought last month is now on sale and costs 20% less....the world is unfair.

Arondite

Firebat86 wrote:

As for they should just increase the flow of ISO: Let's do it. That doesn't screw ANYONE over.

Neither does this, stop crying.

OnesOwnGrief

Steam sale after buying a new game...
Game going free for PS Plus less than 2 weeks after purchase...
Price drop on... oh wait, you can get the difference back within 15 days usually with receipt at retail.
Dominos Pizza doing 50% off online orders the day after you order from them...

Mostly examples of being burned that you can do nothing about...

esoxnepa

Punisher5784 wrote:

We did not get compensated for the reduced roster slots so why would they compensate us for ISO?

It's annoying because they had no problem compensating players who bought alliance space before all alliances had 20, but maybe that was such a high cost that they decided not to do that again.

Regardless, you had the benefit of leveled up characters for over 500 days and I am sure you made your return on investment.

Buying slots for Alliances was not a cost born by all players. It was an optional cost, where there was expected long term benefit. It was also a cost where many players gave up a significant competitive advantage by spending their HP on Alliance Slots, while other could spend it on shields, covers, and packs. Many casual alliances that expanded hadn't yet seen the return on those investments by the time the change was made, totally negating the sacrifice.

FaustianDeal

Arondite wrote:

Imagine that tomorrow all video games go from ~65.95 for New Releases (3 Star Heroes) to 44.95 for New Releases (3 Star Heroes). More and less expensive games drop as well, but just as new releases are the cornerstone of the videogame market, 3 Stars appear to be the cornerstone of our game so we will focus on this.

You will directly benefit from this change if you continue to purchase these games going forward (read, if you continue to play MPQ). Sure, the same games will cost newer players less, but that also doesn't account for all the benefit you've already wrought from those games (heroes). Even if you hadn't gained any benefit from it, hey, you will going forward so it's all good, and it's not like it actually takes away from what you've already done. It's not like your heroes will suddenly be unleveled because of this.

The fact is, you bought the game (leveled your heroes) at the original price, so you felt the value was right for the payout before. If it's getting even better now, you certainly don't deserve a refund for that.

Seems to me you're too focused on relative progress to notice the boon to absolute progress this provides. I mean, this is essentially like being mad that DPD gives 3 stars / iso so easily when you had to work so hard to get them in the past.

Sure, but how many times have you bought a 2nd copy of this game at the lower price and then turned around and immediately returned it using the receipt from the first time you bought it?

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the desire for a refund (I'm still undecided); I'm just saying that not all physical metaphors cleanly carry over.

I have had Patch fully leveled for *months*, and ridden him like a rented mule for much of that time. Have I "gotten my money's worth" out of my leveled Patch, yes. No question. He has repaid every point of ISO I put into him. But the 15 levels I just put into Quicksilver? The first 15? The ones they are talking about reducing the cost of? Nope. That ISO investment won't have started paying off before those levels are made cheaper. Does that mean some kind of sliding scale for refunds is called for? Maybe, but that turns into a slippery slope where people just outside the inflection point have hurt feelings.

To avoid this; I see them coming down in one of 2 answers
1 - no refunds. period
2 - some token refund for *every* character a player has leveled beyond a certain point. (Not knowing what the new ISO costs are its impossible to say what this is.)

As an example, they could say: every player gets
1000 ISO for every character they have leveled above 50
2000 ISO for every character leveled over 75
5000 ISO for every character leveled over 100
(Assuming those numbers "make sense" in terms of being some reasonable amount less than the reduced cost to reach those levels)

They have come down strongly in the "no refunds" camp for ISO. But they were originally very strongly in the "no refunds" for rosters slots camp, and then they changed their minds. This strong "no refunds" stance is (hopefully) just a negotiating tactic. They are anchoring at 'zero refunds' so that an eventual compromise that is anything less than "full amount" is viewed as a win by the player.

Arondite

FaustianDeal wrote:

Sure, but how many times have you bought a 2nd copy of this game at the lower price and then turned around and immediately returned it using the receipt from the first time you bought it?

Uhh, literally Tiny Kitty never, as that is disgustingly amoral.

Arondite

aesthetocyst wrote:

Arondite wrote:

FaustianDeal wrote:

Sure, but how many times have you bought a 2nd copy of this game at the lower price and then turned around and immediately returned it using the receipt from the first time you bought it?

Uhh, literally Tiny Kitty never, as that is disgustingly amoral.

How is that "amoral"? You made two purchases of a physical good. Have documentation of both. You return the good in new condition per the store's return policy. Many retailers price match against themselves, protecting their own customer against price drops. You know, "price guarantees".

And if your return was within the price guarantee (usually limited by date of purchase), you wouldn't need to go through all this trouble, If it's outside the price guarantee you either have no business returning the item or for the original price rather than the new price, or you have no business dealing with a company with whose policies you disagree.

Don't bust out the price guarantee **** on me, when you and I both know these guarantees usually cover 15-90 days and the description above wouldn't be necessary at all to invoke said guarantee.

Unknown

I am fine with the no refund. However, where the vets do get screwed is by the fact that the bulk of the iso reductions will fall on the early levels. If it was a consistent 20% (or 50% - it's negotiable) drop in cost at every level, then there would be a solid benefit for both the veterans and the newbies.

Unknown

OK but in the beginning there were like 3 heroes and every token dropped a gold card so you had like all the covers for every hero practically raining down right?


Well maybe not quite that extreme, but the point is; the ISO you used to get was less spread over so many different characters.

So let's imagine the dilemma for people just now starting the game, with this expanded portfolio of heroes.

New guys be like: "lolwut?"

The fact is ISO (&HP) prices are actually are "too damn high" it's extremely prohibitive to start collecting the plethora of covers now available.

In this regard I can therefore justify & believe it's healthy for the game to give "Jonny noobin" a break.

Dauthi

Firebat86 wrote:

How is D3 "paying" for anything? How is it fair that because someone waited to level someone or started after you, their ISO goes further than yours? Lets take all the new characters. KK or KP for example who are part of the new meta, and there's been tons of ppl who have pumped their hard earned ISO in to them. They max the character out, but now, all that ISO isn't worth near as much because the price is lowering...?

I leveled my KK to 120, do I feel cheated? No, because I dominated in her pvp and scored much higher than those who didn't have her leveled. It's the same for all the characters, I got the value through earning rewards by playing them. It was worth it even if it cost me some iso in the future.

Personally I am grateful they notified us so early (probably close to when the decision was final), if they had waited until last minute then everyone would have something to complain about.

Mawtful

If you honestly believe that, OP, you should delete your account and start again.

ShadowX1984

It's worth noting that new players are critical to any game. Without them the game dies of attrition, and especially in this game we need them to fill out the foundation of our PVE and PVP slices. As vets we should be happy for any changes that make the game more welcoming to new players and easier for them to get into the PVP and PVE events.

Unknown

I dont know... feeling is mixed here. While it really seems that no compensation at all is bad, those 'vets' only got everything they have because they pumped their roster with ISO.

So everytime you got 1k progression and top5 or better on PvP was due to the ISO you spent. If they give you the difference, how about also taking some covers back? Or give you ISO back and distribute 4* covers for everyone?