Isn't PvE gonna be awful, with more health on scaled foes?

SnowcaTT

DFiPL wrote:

Phumade wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

Baddkitty wrote:

They don't want you to win! That would let you earn what you could otherwise PAY FOR ! They want money. plain and simple.

Think of it like an arcade game. They're intentionally programmed super hard, to suck all those quarters from you. WHy make an easy game that wouldn't make any money because kids would beat it too fast. This isn't a $60 AAA console title lol. Oh wait...we do beat those fast. Oh that's right, they've already gotten their $ up front. suckers!

The irony is I probably would have paid $60 for a Marvel Puzzle Quest single-player game with a bunch of the comics story arcs built in to give them room for all of the different characters to show up.

I mean, I've owned the original Puzzle Quest on at least four different formats (PSP, DS, PC, Wii) and played holy hell out of those.

Marvel + Puzzle Quest with a single player campaign as deep as the original Puzzle Quest? Oh just take my wallet.

My Alliance was just talking about this. I own PQ I, PQ II , and Galactix on Xbox 360 and I really miss the deeper campaign and miniquests. I really liked the changing gravity and I miss the mini missions. I though it really changed the dynamics of the game.

PQ II was okay. Galactix (Galactrix? I don't remember) I didn't care for.

PQ I I still see in my dreams when I sleep. Marry that game with Marvel and let me play it solo without being forced into competition with others and I may never play anything else.

I would totally pay $60 for a "full" Marvel puzzle quest. Like these posters, I have discs (!) for all the old games, played on PSP and PC. PQ2 kept crashing on my cloud saves, Galactrix I liked but it was a different format, but I agree PQ1 was just everything I wish I could find from these games.

On topic - yes, PVE is going to be awful with more health. I'm one of those vets that has basically quit PVE, I have only one character beyond 166 - a 250 X-force which apparently is going to only crush my scaling in PVE, and not give me any advantages because he is going to be worse than my 3* characters. Actually, I'm probably going to be "forced" to sell him to compete in PVE - may as well since it sounds like he won't let me compete in PVP either.

rednailz

Quebbster wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Yes, except my means for dealing with them will no longer exist.

I'm a little curious about what your "means of dealing with them" were. The only thing I can come up with is X-force since the other changes really aren't that bad (and on rarely used characters to boot). Am I missing something or is it a case of "throw X-force at every single node"? If the latter... if you depend solely on a single character maybe it's time to learn some new tricks?
I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm just curious about what your mindset is. I am well aware that I may have overlooked something. I frequently do.

How else do you deal with a level 300+ ares, bullseye, and whomever else?

Quebbster

simonsez wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

The effect on grinding is applied across the board though - when everyone can grind less you don't need to grind as much to maintain your position.

First, you're neglecting to consider the p2w crowd. What you really mean is, when everyone can grind less for free, PvE becomes way more p2w. It's bad enough that PvP makes you spend hundreds on shields to get a good score. I don't want PvE to turn into something similar.

I don't have a problem with that. I am completely F2P, but I do acknowledge that money needs to come from somewhere. Other people giving money to the game makers mean I don't have to. I have plenty of characters to play with already, and I can always get a top 50 finish in PvE and top 25 in PvP when I want to. If someone wants to pay for a better position and I don't, why should that be a problem?

simonsez wrote:

Second, it is NOT applied across the board. There are plenty of people who have a maxed Patch/Hulk who don't see lv395 nodes. Like I said, wiping completely is a real possibility at that level. Someone else might be seeing levels under 300. Far less danger there. This exemplifies why PvE scaling is so poorly implemented. If I'm going to hulk bomb a node, and someone else is going to hulk bomb a node, we should be looking at the same difficulty. I shouldn't be penalized for having some 4*s on my roster, and because last PvE I grinded really hard and got a top 5. Neither is relevant to what we're both attempting to do.

I agree that the system is flawed. Still, someone beating difficult nodes that you wipe on will see their difficulty rising, so sooner or later you will be on an equal footing.

Quebbster

rednailz wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Yes, except my means for dealing with them will no longer exist.

I'm a little curious about what your "means of dealing with them" were. The only thing I can come up with is X-force since the other changes really aren't that bad (and on rarely used characters to boot). Am I missing something or is it a case of "throw X-force at every single node"? If the latter... if you depend solely on a single character maybe it's time to learn some new tricks?
I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm just curious about what your mindset is. I am well aware that I may have overlooked something. I frequently do.

How else do you deal with a level 300+ ares, bullseye, and whomever else?

As already mentioned, likely Captain Marvel, Human Torch and Daken. Photonic Blast, Fireball, Inferno... Usually works well.

veneretio

TLCstormz wrote:

Also, lol @ them PURPOSELY not giving 2* Storm more health. So shady.

Ya, I don't know what happened... if some dev lost a top 10 because of some random lucky 2* team or what... but they've got this hate on for all things 2* land. Heaven forbid 2* players have any chance at doing anything, ever.

Scoregasms

simonsez wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

The effect on grinding is applied across the board though - when everyone can grind less you don't need to grind as much to maintain your position.

First, you're neglecting to consider the p2w crowd. What you really mean is, when everyone can grind less for free, PvE becomes way more p2w. It's bad enough that PvP makes you spend hundreds on shields to get a good score. I don't want PvE to turn into something similar.

Second, it is NOT applied across the board. There are plenty of people who have a maxed Patch/Hulk who don't see lv395 nodes. Like I said, wiping completely is a real possibility at that level. Someone else might be seeing levels under 300. Far less danger there. This exemplifies why PvE scaling is so poorly implemented. If I'm going to hulk bomb a node, and someone else is going to hulk bomb a node, we should be looking at the same difficulty. I shouldn't be penalized for having some 4*s on my roster, and because last PvE I grinded really hard and got a top 5. Neither is relevant to what we're both attempting to do.

Hmm, I have to ask, Quebbster, are you regularly seeing 300+ Deadly Nodes and are able to Hulkbomb you're way through them successfully? I'll be honest, the combos you propose while good ones, feels akin to bringing a knife to a gun fight unfortunately. I can see this working in an all goon node since you have a bit more board control, but with villain/hero nodes and a hyper-scaled Ares/Venom/etc to boot, this just doesn't work reliably enough. Throw in an AP Feeder and forget about it, board control goes out the window when they can spam abilities every few turns without making matches.

We just need to be sure we're comparing the same experiences, for folks who unfortunately have leveled 4* and are seeing scaling based on pre-nerf conditions, there aren't many viable alternatives that doesn't include getting very lucky with the initial board and hopefully having a goon use an ability instead of a hero/villian. Sure, we get a bit more health now, but I was getting one-shot by major overkills anyway, but it's not like they increased the damage output for other characters by a significant margin to compensate for the nerfs to very specific characters (I just see overall damage being leveled out in an overall downward trend).

There's a flaw to PVE and this notion of roster diversity, sure, folks can have a huge stable of max characters, but unfortunately, only a handful of characters are able to take the scaling of deadly nodes when they are at that point. This was "OK" pre-nerf since we had those tools available to deal with them. To Simonsez point, those that say scaling will go down eventually just seems like a myth to me. Sure, community scaling may go down a bit, but that doesn't impact your personal scaling. I've been trying to lower my personal scaling for the past 2 weeks now by not using my best characters in an effort to lower my scaling with the intent to have more fun being able to use more characters.

Unfortunately, this has not shown any progress at all yet, the only thing that's happened is that I am now scaled out of nodes unless I use my A-Team (XFW/4hor), which I haven't, which has resulted in my placement in PVE's to plummet. Which I was prepared for, I just didn't know the moment I started my month long experiment, Demiurge would go on a new character binge of epic proportions (sheesh, lol).

To be clear, if one's PVE scaling is based on a roster of 3* characters, then there is a lot more flexibility, but if it's based on 4* characters, it's a lot more difficult to field a viable team based on damage output of those nodes.

Coming from someone who has nerfed himself intentionally by using lower level characters with current scaling still in place, I can tell you some folks may be in for a rough patch. Being able to take down a hyper scaled node is usually predicated on making it a 3 vs 2 as quickly as possible, if that's now much more difficult, it is going to be lot tougher for some. Having said that, the majority of the player base who aren't regularly playing PVE with 4* will probably see this is a huge buff overall, which may be the overall intent, but even if it's a minority of players, Demiurge should do something about the PVE scaling and deleting characters you worked hard for to "fix" it seems like a terrible solution.

simonsez

Quebbster wrote:

I have plenty of characters to play with already, and I can always get a top 50 finish in PvE and top 25 in PvP when I want to. If someone wants to pay for a better position and I don't, why should that be a problem?

It's only a problem in that for over a year, PvE was the area of the game where effort and motivation was all you needed to excel. 8hr refreshes was the first nail in that coffin, and this will probably be the final.

Quebbster wrote:

I agree that the system is flawed. Still, someone beating difficult nodes that you wipe on will see their difficulty rising, so sooner or later you will be on an equal footing.

I've already established that this is not true. I have an alliance mate who beats me (barely! ) in every PvE, but his scaling is significantly lower than mine, either via roster, the way he plays, the zodiac sign he was born under, whatever... but we are nowhere close to being on equal footing.

rednailz

Quebbster wrote:

rednailz wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Yes, except my means for dealing with them will no longer exist.

I'm a little curious about what your "means of dealing with them" were. The only thing I can come up with is X-force since the other changes really aren't that bad (and on rarely used characters to boot). Am I missing something or is it a case of "throw X-force at every single node"? If the latter... if you depend solely on a single character maybe it's time to learn some new tricks?
I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm just curious about what your mindset is. I am well aware that I may have overlooked something. I frequently do.

How else do you deal with a level 300+ ares, bullseye, and whomever else?

As already mentioned, likely Captain Marvel, Human Torch and Daken. Photonic Blast, Fireball, Inferno... Usually works well.

Yeha, that's an awesome stradegy, HT will last for about 1 ares green or 1 ares yellow hit. he's extermely squishy. Maybe after the changes to health.

Unknown

what scaling? didnt they made an account that played for 5 min without no issues? lol

I think this is kind of a dead debate

They took out the best 4*
They nerfed the best 2* tools you had (stun lock with Mags and Storm)
They took out the ap boosts and gave more health to everyone

The goal is clear, they want you to have longer fights, more impossible rounds, and that when you see you cleared your nodes in pve but you are top 150 you react by buying health packs, more shields and well, if you end near top 150 you can always buy packs with 0.00001% of chance of a cover, or you can just spend hp to level your characters

Or who knows, you can run behind the next awesome character that will be nerfed in a week or month, pay for him and use him until its worthless lol

The only decision here is to enjoy the game and accept what you can do or just pay for more, they are behind money after all, not delivering a fair and balanced game which you can choose to support

snlf25

Or choice 3, just play DDQ and spread the word far and wide to everybody who will listen not to spend any money until they start playing fair with us.