Isn't PvE gonna be awful, with more health on scaled foes?

TLCstormz

I mean.........can you imagine fighting a level 300 Bullseye, with EVEN MORE health? Or cMags? Or Falcon? Squirrel Girl is only in Simulator and Gauntlet, so nevermind her.

And what about the other Dark Avengers getting their health buffed? Moonstone and Rags. Lord.

Also, lol @ them PURPOSELY not giving 2* Storm more health. So shady.

I know that most of you "vets" only play PvP, but aren't there some serious concerns for PvE, as well? Especially with the crazy scaling everyone currently has?

Arondite

What's worse is that the scaled versions will be gaining more health en volum than their regular counterparts.

Baddkitty

They don't want you to win! That would let you earn what you could otherwise PAY FOR ! They want money. plain and simple.

Think of it like an arcade game. They're intentionally programmed super hard, to suck all those quarters from you. WHy make an easy game that wouldn't make any money because kids would beat it too fast. This isn't a $60 AAA console title lol. Oh wait...we do beat those fast. Oh that's right, they've already gotten their $ up front. suckers!

OnesOwnGrief

Bullseye got a slight buff, Ares and Daken remain unchanged. Juggernaut and Venom also unchanged. Moonstone is easily countered. I think you're fine.

DFiPL

Baddkitty wrote:

They don't want you to win! That would let you earn what you could otherwise PAY FOR ! They want money. plain and simple.

Think of it like an arcade game. They're intentionally programmed super hard, to suck all those quarters from you. WHy make an easy game that wouldn't make any money because kids would beat it too fast. This isn't a $60 AAA console title lol. Oh wait...we do beat those fast. Oh that's right, they've already gotten their $ up front. suckers!

The irony is I probably would have paid $60 for a Marvel Puzzle Quest single-player game with a bunch of the comics story arcs built in to give them room for all of the different characters to show up.

I mean, I've owned the original Puzzle Quest on at least four different formats (PSP, DS, PC, Wii) and played holy hell out of those.

Marvel + Puzzle Quest with a single player campaign as deep as the original Puzzle Quest? Oh just take my wallet.

MarvelDestiny

Yeah, scaling has sucked recently. I can understand d3 trying to gain more profit but mmr/scaling is not the way. The only players they will see money from are the ultra hardcore players that enjoy banging their heads against the wall for the rush of winning occasionally, everybody else will either quit or transition to uber-casual play. If the game stays this difficult and only gets more difficult as players progress, d3 will lose even the hardcore players sooner rather than later.

I just don't see how d3 (or sega when they take over) will be profitable and how mpq will survive by driving away business.

Phumade

DFiPL wrote:

Baddkitty wrote:

They don't want you to win! That would let you earn what you could otherwise PAY FOR ! They want money. plain and simple.

Think of it like an arcade game. They're intentionally programmed super hard, to suck all those quarters from you. WHy make an easy game that wouldn't make any money because kids would beat it too fast. This isn't a $60 AAA console title lol. Oh wait...we do beat those fast. Oh that's right, they've already gotten their $ up front. suckers!

The irony is I probably would have paid $60 for a Marvel Puzzle Quest single-player game with a bunch of the comics story arcs built in to give them room for all of the different characters to show up.

I mean, I've owned the original Puzzle Quest on at least four different formats (PSP, DS, PC, Wii) and played holy hell out of those.

Marvel + Puzzle Quest with a single player campaign as deep as the original Puzzle Quest? Oh just take my wallet.

My Alliance was just talking about this. I own PQ I, PQ II , and Galactix on Xbox 360 and I really miss the deeper campaign and miniquests. I really liked the changing gravity and I miss the mini missions. I though it really changed the dynamics of the game.

simonsez

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Bullseye got a slight buff, Ares and Daken remain unchanged. Juggernaut and Venom also unchanged. Moonstone is easily countered. I think you're fine.

Yes, except my means for dealing with them will no longer exist.

DFiPL

Phumade wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

Baddkitty wrote:

They don't want you to win! That would let you earn what you could otherwise PAY FOR ! They want money. plain and simple.

Think of it like an arcade game. They're intentionally programmed super hard, to suck all those quarters from you. WHy make an easy game that wouldn't make any money because kids would beat it too fast. This isn't a $60 AAA console title lol. Oh wait...we do beat those fast. Oh that's right, they've already gotten their $ up front. suckers!

The irony is I probably would have paid $60 for a Marvel Puzzle Quest single-player game with a bunch of the comics story arcs built in to give them room for all of the different characters to show up.

I mean, I've owned the original Puzzle Quest on at least four different formats (PSP, DS, PC, Wii) and played holy hell out of those.

Marvel + Puzzle Quest with a single player campaign as deep as the original Puzzle Quest? Oh just take my wallet.

My Alliance was just talking about this. I own PQ I, PQ II , and Galactix on Xbox 360 and I really miss the deeper campaign and miniquests. I really liked the changing gravity and I miss the mini missions. I though it really changed the dynamics of the game.

PQ II was okay. Galactix (Galactrix? I don't remember) I didn't care for.

PQ I I still see in my dreams when I sleep. Marry that game with Marvel and let me play it solo without being forced into competition with others and I may never play anything else.

Quebbster

simonsez wrote:

Yes, except my means for dealing with them will no longer exist.

I'm a little curious about what your "means of dealing with them" were. The only thing I can come up with is X-force since the other changes really aren't that bad (and on rarely used characters to boot). Am I missing something or is it a case of "throw X-force at every single node"? If the latter... if you depend solely on a single character maybe it's time to learn some new tricks?
I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm just curious about what your mindset is. I am well aware that I may have overlooked something. I frequently do.

simonsez

Quebbster wrote:

if you depend solely on a single character maybe it's time to learn some new tricks?

There's no "trick" to beating a lv395 Ares that is being fed green or yellow by one or two goons. You either have to stun him quickly, or start chaining abilities quickly. That would mean something like boosting blue/pink+6 and having mnmag/GT keep him stunned, or boosting +6 with some combination of XForce with Cmag/IF/Hood to start chaining abilities on the 2nd or 3rd turn, or doing something like Magstique... in other words, everything they've nerfed lately.

The devs seem to now want every battle to be a long, back-and-forth slog. That's not going to work against overscaled opponents and/or goon feeders. I do NOT want to hear that scaling will go down. I've heard that song and dance too many time to believe it. Scaling has always been a one-way street. I'm not going to believe it will be different until I see it.

Lee T

I'm a bit concerned about DDQ. I sometimes get through by the skin of my teeth, so I'm not sure the few 2* HP boosts will compensate for the longer games against boosted 3* for the cover node.

Quebbster

simonsez wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

if you depend solely on a single character maybe it's time to learn some new tricks?

There's no "trick" to beating a lv395 Ares that is being fed green or yellow by one or two goons. You either have to stun him quickly, or start chaining abilities quickly. That would mean something like boosting blue/pink+6 and having mnmag/GT keep him stunned, or boosting +6 with some combination of XForce with Cmag/IF/Hood to start chaining abilities on the 2nd or 3rd turn, or doing something like Magstique... in other words, everything they've nerfed lately.

The devs seem to now want every battle to be a long, back-and-forth slog. That's not going to work against overscaled opponents and/or goon feeders. I do NOT want to hear that scaling will go down. I've heard that song and dance too many time to believe it. Scaling has always been a one-way street. I'm not going to believe it will be different until I see it.

I have at least two different tricks for particularly difficult PvE nodes: Hulkbombing and Captain Marvel/Human Torch. And then there's my all-star all-purpose team of X-force, Classic Daken and Deadpool.
I use X-force a lot and I am not sure how I will adapt to the new weaker iteration. On the other hand, I definitely see why the devs don't want one guy head and shoulders above everyone else, particularly not when that guy is a true healer.
As for scaling... my experience is that it goes a bit back and forth depending on how well I do. Again, YMMV.

Malcrof

Lee T wrote:

I'm a bit concerned about DDQ. I sometimes get through by the skin of my teeth, so I'm not sure the few 2* HP boosts will compensate for the longer games against boosted 3* for the cover node.

DDQ is where i think the extra hp will help us transitioners.. soo many times those gorram "turn to smoke" guys.. I do not have a stunner in my ddq line up (i bring OBW to help heal and with timers), the extra hp give me extra time to take those tiles out, also, the extra HP will give me more time to stockpile AP.

Yes, it is going to get harder, and fights will take longer, but that means the times between heals will also FEEL shorter, AND this will help in PVE scaling nodes.. you can't mow through the same node 40 times in 10 minutes, so other than goon nodes, less "deadly" ones.

simonsez

Quebbster wrote:

I have at least two different tricks for particularly difficult PvE nodes: Hulkbombing and Captain Marvel/Human Torch.

Yes, you might be able to Hulk bomb these nodes, but even with all the strike tiles, there's still a good chance you won't whittle down >20k of health points before you get hit with a massive attack. And even if you do get through it, these strategies are "one and done". Doesn't help folks who like to grind for high ranks, unless they want to start buying a ton of health packs.

woopie

Easiest fix would be for them to reset personal scaling in PVE since they eliminated the 2 characters that could most reliably handle the 3x395 nodes. They won't do it though

Quebbster

simonsez wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

I have at least two different tricks for particularly difficult PvE nodes: Hulkbombing and Captain Marvel/Human Torch.

Yes, you might be able to Hulk bomb these nodes, but even with all the strike tiles, there's still a good chance you won't whittle down >20k of health points before you get hit with a massive attack. And even if you do get through it, these strategies are "one and done". Doesn't help folks who like to grind for high ranks, unless they want to start buying a ton of health packs.

The effect on grinding is applied across the board though - when everyone can grind less you don't need to grind as much to maintain your position.
Hulkbombing usually requires me to use one healthpack afterwards, on Hulk. Captain Marvel/Human Torch/Daken bounce back surprisingly quickly. If you spread it out a bit in the ending grind healing times will help you too. It's not something I bust out all the time, but I have no problem making it work.

simonsez

Quebbster wrote:

The effect on grinding is applied across the board though - when everyone can grind less you don't need to grind as much to maintain your position.

First, you're neglecting to consider the p2w crowd. What you really mean is, when everyone can grind less for free, PvE becomes way more p2w. It's bad enough that PvP makes you spend hundreds on shields to get a good score. I don't want PvE to turn into something similar.

Second, it is NOT applied across the board. There are plenty of people who have a maxed Patch/Hulk who don't see lv395 nodes. Like I said, wiping completely is a real possibility at that level. Someone else might be seeing levels under 300. Far less danger there. This exemplifies why PvE scaling is so poorly implemented. If I'm going to hulk bomb a node, and someone else is going to hulk bomb a node, we should be looking at the same difficulty. I shouldn't be penalized for having some 4*s on my roster, and because last PvE I grinded really hard and got a top 5. Neither is relevant to what we're both attempting to do.

GrimSkald

Malcrof wrote:

Lee T wrote:

I'm a bit concerned about DDQ. I sometimes get through by the skin of my teeth, so I'm not sure the few 2* HP boosts will compensate for the longer games against boosted 3* for the cover node.

DDQ is where i think the extra hp will help us transitioners.. soo many times those gorram "turn to smoke" guys.. I do not have a stunner in my ddq line up (i bring OBW to help heal and with timers), the extra hp give me extra time to take those tiles out, also, the extra HP will give me more time to stockpile AP.

Yes, it is going to get harder, and fights will take longer, but that means the times between heals will also FEEL shorter, AND this will help in PVE scaling nodes.. you can't mow through the same node 40 times in 10 minutes, so other than goon nodes, less "deadly" ones.

My go-to team for "The Big Enchillada" is Blade/Falcon/Spider Man (yes, no tinykitty, Spider Man.) Blade and Falcon level maxxed, Spider Man at 3/5/5 level 139 (but this worked fine at 127, I leveled him recently.) Blade generates strike tiles, Spider Man generates protect tiles while feeding Blade's attack tiles, and the Falcon buffs all the tiles and deals with the goons. If I can, I try to end the last goon with Blade's black so I can get a leg up on the actual characters, but sometimes I can't and that's where the buffed protect tiles come into play. When I get to the final set of real characters I stun lock them with the 15-30 blue AP I've been gathering the whole time and finish them off pretty quickly since the board is generally full of strike and attack tiles.

I've sometimes taken real damage, mostly on Blade, but it hasn't failed me once. Sure, I've got a solid 3* roster and this isn't really hard for a 3* roster, but what I'm saying is that the slow, building characters may work better than the quick ones, and experimenting may get you very far. The Falcon is amazing for pretty much any of the swarm nodes - he deals with goons and he allows you to build your game.

woopie

simonsez wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

The effect on grinding is applied across the board though - when everyone can grind less you don't need to grind as much to maintain your position.

First, you're neglecting to consider the p2w crowd. What you really mean is, when everyone can grind less for free, PvE becomes way more p2w. It's bad enough that PvP makes you spend hundreds on shields to get a good score. I don't want PvE to turn into something similar.

Second, it is NOT applied across the board. There are plenty of people who have a maxed Patch/Hulk who don't see lv395 nodes. Like I said, wiping completely is a real possibility at that level. Someone else might be seeing levels under 300. Far less danger there. This exemplifies why PvE scaling is so poorly implemented. If I'm going to hulk bomb a node, and someone else is going to hulk bomb a node, we should be looking at the same difficulty. I shouldn't be penalized for having some 4*s on my roster, and because last PvE I grinded really hard and got a top 5. Neither is relevant to what we're both attempting to do.

Plus at that level, 1 bad cascade can lead to an Ares G or Y that will basically wipe any character in 1 shot. At least the matches are quick

Malcrof

GrimSkald wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Lee T wrote:

I'm a bit concerned about DDQ. I sometimes get through by the skin of my teeth, so I'm not sure the few 2* HP boosts will compensate for the longer games against boosted 3* for the cover node.

DDQ is where i think the extra hp will help us transitioners.. soo many times those gorram "turn to smoke" guys.. I do not have a stunner in my ddq line up (i bring OBW to help heal and with timers), the extra hp give me extra time to take those tiles out, also, the extra HP will give me more time to stockpile AP.

Yes, it is going to get harder, and fights will take longer, but that means the times between heals will also FEEL shorter, AND this will help in PVE scaling nodes.. you can't mow through the same node 40 times in 10 minutes, so other than goon nodes, less "deadly" ones.

My go-to team for "The Big Enchillada" is Blade/Falcon/Spider Man (yes, no tinykitty, Spider Man.) Blade and Falcon level maxxed, Spider Man at 3/5/5 level 139 (but this worked fine at 127, I leveled him recently.) Blade generates strike tiles, Spider Man generates protect tiles while feeding Blade's attack tiles, and the Falcon buffs all the tiles and deals with the goons. If I can, I try to end the last goon with Blade's black so I can get a leg up on the actual characters, but sometimes I can't and that's where the buffed protect tiles come into play. When I get to the final set of real characters I stun lock them with the 15-30 blue AP I've been gathering the whole time and finish them off pretty quickly since the board is generally full of strike and attack tiles.

I've sometimes taken real damage, mostly on Blade, but it hasn't failed me once. Sure, I've got a solid 3* roster and this isn't really hard for a 3* roster, but what I'm saying is that the slow, building characters may work better than the quick ones, and experimenting may get you very far. The Falcon is amazing for pretty much any of the swarm nodes - he deals with goons and he allows you to build your game.

That sounds like an awesome team for a marathon! I need some covers for blade and falcon though, only 2 covers each for both