Proposed Skip Tax change

Arimis_Thorn

If an enemy team is more than 200 total levels over the last team that you used to win, there is no skip tax.

Seems like everyone is running into maxed teams once they clear the seed teams. I'm a 2-3* transitioner, have yet to break 500 points in a post-MMR change PVP event, and yet I'm still running into a hell of a lot of 290/270/270. I don't have any 3*'s at lvl 166 yet, so those teams are several hundred cumulative levels higher.

When the deck is that heavily stacked, how about we just get a pass on that skip tax? I'd much prefer I didn't see those teams at all, and given that I haven't broken 500 points in an event, I thought that meant that I wouldn't. Apparently I'm not understanding the MMR changes as they were explained.

snlf25

If I pay iso to skip somebody I should at the very least never see that team in that event again.

Mikaveus

The best solution is to improve the match-making algorithm so you don't have to skip so often to begin with. I like your idea though.

Phumade

snlf25 wrote:

If I pay iso to skip somebody I should at the very least never see that team in that event again.

I only skip because the high level teams are worth so little early in the climb, By the end, I need those max level teams to be around 800 to 900 pts. This is bad idea, because it limits the economy at the end of the pvp. I almost wish there was a away to que people who are shielded. Points are so hard to find in the last 3hrs of a pvp.

Unknown

Phumade wrote:

snlf25 wrote:

If I pay iso to skip somebody I should at the very least never see that team in that event again.

I only skip because the high level teams are worth so little early in the climb, By the end, I need those max level teams to be around 800 to 900 pts. This is bad idea, because it limits the economy at the end of the pvp. I almost wish there was a away to que people who are shielded. Points are so hard to find in the last 3hrs of a pvp.

Maybe not "ever again" but most certainly not "very next match". From what I understand the match algorithm returns 5 results. Can we not at least make sure the second 5 does not contain any from the first 5? 10 skips later and I probably forgot that guys name anyway.

bknfoodie

The problem with unlimited skips is that people won't ever fight anyone higher than them. They put the skip tax in play because they felt people were skipping more than playing.

Seriously, stop bargaining. The problem is the MMR. They fix that and the skip tax is fine. Would you rather have broken MMR forever with no skip tax. Or fixed MMR with skip tax?

Arimis_Thorn

bknfoodie wrote:

The problem with unlimited skips is that people won't ever fight anyone higher than them. They put the skip tax in play because they felt people were skipping more than playing.

Seriously, stop bargaining. The problem is the MMR. They fix that and the skip tax is fine. Would you rather have broken MMR forever with no skip tax. Or fixed MMR with skip tax?

Of course I'd rather they fix the MMR, but changes like that require data collected over time to make an informed decision. My suggestion is admittedly a band-aid. And I don't think people would skip everyone higher, jut those teams that are absurdly out of their league, hence the +200 levels threshold.

It likely won't happen, but just trying to improve the experience.

MaskedMan

Removing the skip tax doesn't really help at higher levels. You just get different 290, 270, 270 teams. Well you might get some 166s thrown in but at the end of the day facing 166 Thor and Hulk if you don't have 166's isn't much of an improvement.

Unknown

bknfoodie wrote:

The problem with unlimited skips is that people won't ever fight anyone higher than them. They put the skip tax in play because they felt people were skipping more than playing.

Seriously, stop bargaining. The problem is the MMR. They fix that and the skip tax is fine. Would you rather have broken MMR forever with no skip tax. Or fixed MMR with skip tax?

They have shown that they are incapable of fixing MMR to everyone's liking thus far, so why not fix the skip tax in the meantime? It's easier and improves user experience. But alas, anything player-friendly with no revenue attached to it is always an afterthought for these devs (respec, delete TU, shield cooldown timer), so it's no surprise that players are feeling bitter as they cycle through the same nodes over and over.

Unknown

For me it would be fine if they just remove skip cost if you already have skipped that target before. Very often I just cycle between 3 or 4 same targets paying every time to get a new target but still getting the one from before.
Proposed this already in January, but no comment from devs so far viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22529
Guess they like it the way it is.

Xenoberyll

I'd be happy if i just didn't have to skip the same people over and over.

simonsez

bknfoodie wrote:

The problem with unlimited skips is that people won't ever fight anyone higher than them.

Why should you have to? As long as whatever-passes-for-matchmaking offers me someone as an acceptable matchup, why should there be constraints on picking the matchup I prefer? It's not as if there's an exploit at work here, and by skipping you can find a matchup they really didn't want you to have.

Malcrof

simonsez wrote:

bknfoodie wrote:

The problem with unlimited skips is that people won't ever fight anyone higher than them.

Why should you have to? As long as whatever-passes-for-matchmaking offers me someone as an acceptable matchup, why should there be constraints on picking the matchup I prefer? It's not as if there's an exploit at work here, and by skipping you can find a matchup they really didn't want you to have.

Why should you have to? It is a competition, that's why! I probably did a total of 80 skips last night, just to get a couple of fights and get my Kamala cover.. but since the event had started, i got to 500 points, got a cover i needed for one of my core players i am transitioning (5th purple for doom), and with that cover, i was able to take a couple teams i had previously skipped. They countered me and beat me, but that is how it works! If it was nothing but fight after fight of winnable.. then it really takes the competitive portion away.

The risk of losing is one you have to take sometimes, especially with a reward of 43 or so from the fight, which got me to 60th place, so i could shield and go to bed. (got my cover this morning). One more cover and Kamala is about to get pumped to all hell (yellow cover at 3000 points will put her at 3/2/4 for me).

I agree about the skip charge though, lost over 1k iso doing skips to get the cover, but better than paying 1250hp to get it.

Square

The skips are ridiculous ever since the shards started. As you approach 1,000, most of your skips get you opponents worth 3 points. It's pretty insane that that is all you can be offered. Then you get the person you skipped twice already a few minutes ago. The game can't offer opponents, so why are they charging ISO to get nothing? The only solution right now is coordinating skips with a team.

This is a broken feature in the game at the moment.

simonsez

Malcrof wrote:

I probably did a total of 80 skips last night, just to get a couple of fights

So then you DO agree that putting constraints on skipping would be silly. It was a little hard to tell. The whole post read a little like, "You guys shouldn't skip so much, but it's ok when I do it"

Unknown

Square wrote:

Then you get the person you skipped twice already a few minutes ago.

A few minutes ago? I wish! Sometimes I get the exact same team right after the skip!

What's the usefulness in skipping if I get the same 3-5 opponents? Is it possible that at any given time in the whole damn bracket there are just 3-5 opponents that I can fight? And I'm not talking about high-level placement. As soon as I get to 500-600 points the same names keep cycling endlessly. To add insult to injury, none of them is above 23 points. I don't want to fight people below me, I want to fight people above me! At least, for tinikitty sake, out of 1000 people in a bracket DON'T GIVE ME THE SAME FIVE. FREAKING. OPPONENTS.

RWTDBurn

A skip tax needs to be based on more than just the level differences and needs to have a point value minimum as well. When you are at/near the top of bracket, It's easy to spend hundreds of ISO skipping targets worth less than 10 points. Since the MMR change, I've easy spent over 1000 ISO skipping matches that were under a 5 point value. There is no way anyone in their right mind would take a battle remotely close to being this low in value knowing that each battle you might lose while you are fighting for 3 points will be worth 40+.