Sad times again...

Phillipes

I have written this numerous times, Im going to write it again, developers are incompetent, vithout vision, game is not improving at all, practicly fom several months. No, adding new character every week is NOT an improvement. (But Im giving you credit for selectable time slices.)

They want vets leaving the game (if vets leave, who will be cursing on this forum? )

Fighting maxed teams just after seed teams...
Fighting 3 seed teams... And forth match against 290 Hulk... So sad and cruel.

Again and again, they dictate us, when we need to play, because playing against maxed teams with your maxed teams (unbeatable without maxed teams ofc) is draining healtpacks super fast...Absolute necessity for MASSIVE out game communication, making non-agression pacts with other alliances, being part of top - alliances truce, just to decrease of being hit be others, intentionaly loosing to ohter members just help them to increase chance to reach 1000 ...

Developers, do you know that people are maybe 90 % time outside this game, coordinating, recruiting, doing everything just to decrease the negative impact you are constantly making with your changes? You have there one from you - IceIX, ask him !!

I don´t know any game who punishes you as you progress, and I´m gamer for 20 years.
It is irony to have end - game PVP roster and not to abe ble to reach end - game PVP scores...

If you really want to leave MMR like this, then give us possiblity to to downgrade characters ! I would downgrade my X-force and others to level 94 and I want to crush 2* teams, as before ! That was the reason why I have grinded so hard and so long for it !
Why the heck did I maxed my X-force? To fight others X-forces from beginning? Do you think this is normal? Kamala Khan PVP was normal again - IT WAS AS IT SHOULD BE !!!

Developers: simply tell us you want us to leave this game, that you don´t want us here, and I´m certaing I won´t be only one who will comly.

NighteyesGrisu

At the risk of being curcified here: what do you expect? Is beating up 2* teams until you reach 500p or more considered more fun by you? Exactly what kind of teams do you expect to be matched up against?

Furthermore, I think you overstate the out of game communication for the vast majority of the players. I'd say non-aggression pacts and the like are really only relevant to a tiny fraction of all players.

The current PVP is a bit more hassle than normal not because of matchmaking but becuase it's the hulk who is always annoying to fight against and because he's super-buffed, witch makes matches long. So that really has more to do with the featured character than with the matchmaking itself (as well as the immense boost the featured character gets nowadays, personally I found 230 to be better)

Unknown

I think you miss the point though. Changing the matchmaking was probably always on the cards, but it's the timing of that change and the botched implementation of that change that is causing the issues. It's like the NFL changing to 10 points for a TD and 20 yards for a 1st down in week 3 of a season, then reverting back in the next week and then changing to 150 yard pitches the following week. If there is sound logic behind the changes, then it is well hidden behind the amateur implementation and communication!

MarvelMan

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

At the risk of being curcified here: what do you expect? Is beating up 2* teams until you reach 500p or more considered more fun by you? Exactly what kind of teams do you expect to be matched up against?

Hopefully this doesnt come across too much like Im crucifying you, just trying to explain.

I dont like getting matched against 290/166(Hood)/270XF from my second match (or fourth if I clear ALL seeds). Particularly if not everyone gets those even matches from that point. This current version of MM is especially ridiculous given we are all fighting for the same quality rewards. If you dont have the time/resources (or just plain ability) to rectify that, the game WILL die. DPDQ was a great add, but that was the last real content (new chars DO NOT COUNT) and the PVP climb was stale LONG ago. So to make it worse, for everyone, either requires serious blinders or massive incompetence.

I dont exactly consider beating 2* teams over and over fun, but it sure as heck beats having to fight maxed 4* teams EVERY MATCH. It requires I use my top team for every fight, at least with 2* matches there is some fun as I can play alternative 3* teams to test synergy of just muck around.

Its a climb that starts at the base every time, no matter how well I did previously, so I expect fights to get progressively more difficult as I accumulate points. I get the same freakin match type at 25pts that I get at 1025pts....and would have to grind 40+ matches of them over and over. Lower teams should drop out of contention/queue as I pass their equilibrium levels. Id love to see something like dropping 1*s around 100, nonmaxed 2*s at 250 or so, then maxed 2*s at 350, nonmaxed 3*s at 450 with maxed 3*s through 650 before open season based on points above that. Those are all somewhat random thresholds, but there needs to be something along those lines. I get that its "fair" because we all see the same types of matches (do we?) but its just not fun and there is no sense of playing to achieve anything.

I get that they want to ease the pain for new players, particularly those going 2* to 3*, but at what cost? The entire game? There has to be a better way to ease it than ruin PVP for everyone, especially since PVE is a grindfest that burns people out.

KrazyKeylime

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

At the risk of being curcified here: what do you expect? Is beating up 2* teams until you reach 500p or more considered more fun by you? Exactly what kind of teams do you expect to be matched up against?

Furthermore, I think you overstate the out of game communication for the vast majority of the players. I'd say non-aggression pacts and the like are really only relevant to a tiny fraction of all players.

The current PVP is a bit more hassle than normal not because of matchmaking but becuase it's the hulk who is always annoying to fight against and because he's super-buffed, witch makes matches long. So that really has more to do with the featured character than with the matchmaking itself (as well as the immense boost the featured character gets nowadays, personally I found 230 to be better)

the problem is that the rewards where kept too high, but they couldn't realistically bring them down as the 2* could easily push to get them from their new safe zone. The 2* were a necessary step to get high enough, without being drained too much so they can attempt for the 1000 point reward. this soft split need to be flushed out into a full split. it need to be isolated tiers for appropriate rewards. i had fun playing the hulk event and marched up to 660 points and 1st place while most hung around 300. the key was 4* wolverine's SS make almost all hits for green that lead into xforces and finishing off with hulks red for 4k or my newly maxed 5/5/3 Luke cage's righteous upper cut, so fun end with that move like a forumite suggested. i would destroy hulk after dealing with the other two characters with 3-4 extra regular matchs, to get the ap required if i hadn't done so already, then proceeded to destroy 19K hulk to nothing in one turn. but at the top i found that i didn't want the rewards IW or DD reward( maxed) for 1st or the stupid elektra at 1000 so i sit unshielded in the first slice welcoming a challenge dishing out points most likely at 300 points about now.

Mithic

The problem I am seeing is that I am a transition player, no characters above 94 using the level 70 loaner hulk. Right after my seeds, and hitting 100 points, I am only seeing teams of 200+ Hulk/130-166 3*s. Something is wrong with the Hulk PVPs MMR. I am usually able to get to 300-400 points per event, I don't care if I am fighting against teams of 94s that I'm equal to, in order to climb the rankings. But finishing 3 fights and now not able to progress anywhere in the event is frustrating.

Unknown

When I had a 2* roster I didn't want to be protected from the xforce wall, I wanted to be better and beat it. If I felt I was being protected, I'm not sure I would have wanted to advance as the feeling of getting better is the reason I play all games. In my life I'm not competitive, in games I'm very competitive, I always thought that was the point of league systems and if I wanted to match three in a cosy environment then Id just play Candy Crush.

Mithic

MarCr wrote:

When I had a 2* roster I didn't want to be protected from the xforce wall, I wanted to be better and beat it. If I felt I was being protected, I'm not sure I would have wanted to advance as the feeling of getting better is the reason I play all games. In my life I'm not competitive, in games I'm very competitive, I always thought that was the point of league systems and if I wanted to match three in a cosy environment then Id just play Candy Crush.

The point of MMR should be to progress through people around your rank first, then up into people that are slightly above you, and finally to people that are much higher. I actually found that was the progression through the IM40 event, and Kamala Khan PVP event. However this Hulk PVP event has been trash. There is absolutely no way I can take a 70 hulk, and 2 2* 94s against any of the current nodes I have, even after skipping quite a few. I am looking at 200-290 hulks, 130-166 characters. The hulk alone boost makes it impossible to play. Its sad that this will affect my overall season reward as well since I am still only previously earning 300-400 on each event, I needed each of these events if I wanted a chance at the 10pack before the end of the season.

Unknown

Mithic wrote:

The point of MMR should be to progress through people around your rank first, then up into people that are slightly above you, and finally to people that are much higher. I actually found that was the progression through the IM40 event, and Kamala Khan PVP event. However this Hulk PVP event has been trash. There is absolutely no way I can take a 70 hulk, and 2 2* 94s against any of the current nodes I have, even after skipping quite a few. I am looking at 200-290 hulks, 130-166 characters. The hulk alone boost makes it impossible to play. Its sad that this will affect my overall season reward as well since I am still only previously earning 300-400 on each event, I needed each of these events if I wanted a chance at the 10pack before the end of the season.

Ive dropped out of my alliance and Ive given up on caring about my season score. Im just bleating on here until GTA V comes out next week and I can forget about this sorry episode of my life.

Cymmina

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

At the risk of being curcified here: what do you expect? Is beating up 2* teams until you reach 500p or more considered more fun by you? Exactly what kind of teams do you expect to be matched up against?

They could have improved the scoring against the seed teams. You blasted through a seed team in 10 turns? You get 150 points instead of 25. You get through all 3 seed teams and you're already sitting at 500 and can go play against someone your own size. At no point does a 3* team need to go stomping on a 2* or 1* team. The exact numbers here aren't important, just the concept.

MarvelMan

Cymmina wrote:

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

At the risk of being curcified here: what do you expect? Is beating up 2* teams until you reach 500p or more considered more fun by you? Exactly what kind of teams do you expect to be matched up against?

They could have improved the scoring against the seed teams. You blasted through a seed team in 10 turns? You get 150 points instead of 25. You get through all 3 seed teams and you're already sitting at 500 and can go play against someone your own size. At no point does a 3* team need to go stomping on a 2* or 1* team. The exact numbers here aren't important, just the concept.

There is definitely fun to be had beating a 2* team with Dr Oc, Beast and Moonstone (oh, that Moonstone!).



But maybe it doesnt have its place in PVP. SHIELD training isnt really a training venue since its tied to Seasons and includes point loss.

NighteyesGrisu

MarvelMan wrote:

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

At the risk of being curcified here: what do you expect? Is beating up 2* teams until you reach 500p or more considered more fun by you? Exactly what kind of teams do you expect to be matched up against?

Hopefully this doesnt come across too much like Im crucifying you, just trying to explain.

you can crucify me anytime

I dont like getting matched against 290/166(Hood)/270XF from my second match (or fourth if I clear ALL seeds). Particularly if not everyone gets those even matches from that point. This current version of MM is especially ridiculous given we are all fighting for the same quality rewards. If you dont have the time/resources (or just plain ability) to rectify that, the game WILL die. DPDQ was a great add, but that was the last real content (new chars DO NOT COUNT) and the PVP climb was stale LONG ago. So to make it worse, for everyone, either requires serious blinders or massive incompetence.

Maybe our different opinion comes from different experiences. While I have met several 290/270/166 teams by now, I haven't had to go up against a hoody yet...mostly XF an some sidekick...while that certainly was harder than the usual ares/obw stuff it's certainly doable and I got way more points for them than I usually do for 2" teams.
Now it's still harder than before, I agree, especially since you get attacks back, but it's something that IMO is tweakable and not fundamentally broken. I guess most of my disagreement with the OP wasn't really about the comment itself but the negativity that has become like background noise in this forum. Reading it you could think MPQ is utter **** when it really isn't.

Its a climb that starts at the base every time, no matter how well I did previously, so I expect fights to get progressively more difficult as I accumulate points. I get the same freakin match type at 25pts that I get at 1025pts....and would have to grind 40+ matches of them over and over. Lower teams should drop out of contention/queue as I pass their equilibrium levels. Id love to see something like dropping 1*s around 100, nonmaxed 2*s at 250 or so, then maxed 2*s at 350, nonmaxed 3*s at 450 with maxed 3*s through 650 before open season based on points above that. Those are all somewhat random thresholds, but there needs to be something along those lines. I get that its "fair" because we all see the same types of matches (do we?) but its just not fun and there is no sense of playing to achieve anything.

I agree, but we should also acknowledge that providing that automatically is very difficult because characters that are of equal strenght on paper (beast and hood, or xf and iw for example) really aren't. So providing progressively harder fights isn't exactly easy. Because of that the best way to go forward probably would be a two tier system as some here already suggested. Though even that won't be as easy to implement as it sounds at first.

MarvelMan

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

you can crucify me anytime

Glad you arent taking it personally!

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

Maybe our different opinion comes from different experiences. While I have met several 290/270/166 teams by now, I haven't had to go up against a hoody yet...mostly XF an some sidekick...while that certainly was harder than the usual ares/obw stuff it's certainly doable and I got way more points for them than I usually do for 2" teams.

There is definitely a difference in our experiences. Makes me wonder why. My matches started as max 3*/4* and were 24-28 points...the good news is that after the first three I accepted Ive started to see non-maxed 3*s...but they are worth 22-24 points. Skip after skip. After skip. After skip. Took 8 skips to find one worth more than 25pts...it was 26, which took me into max 3* and/or max 4* land. But at least I see the occasional 30 pointer!

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

I agree, but we should also acknowledge that providing that automatically is very difficult because characters that are of equal strenght on paper (beast and hood, or xf and iw for example) really aren't. So providing progressively harder fights isn't exactly easy. Because of that the best way to go forward probably would be a two tier system as some here already suggested. Though even that won't be as easy to implement as it sounds at first.

Fighting up through 2*s, into non-maxed 3*s then maxed 3*s was not perfect, but it was worlds better than this. Ive been one of the ones advocating the tiered system, plus simultaneous PVPs to help with variety. One suggestion that I saw put forward, and then improved on by Phantron, was to "gift" a base point total of ~50% of what you scored last PVP with a cap of ~500. Add in a place to truly play around (like SHIELD was supposed to be) and test stuff out and Id be totally on board. I just see no need to climb to 1k every PVP using the same team the entire time. It was bad enough I had to do that from 700 to 1k before...now its the whole time.

FaustianDeal

I tried to read through the other responses, and I think the argument I didn't see made has to do with balancing the risk reward - which is a nuance that I didn't see mentioned. I don't have a problem competing with equivalent rosters, but shouldn't some accommodation be made for that relative difference in risk? A 2* roster is (or maybe the correct phrase here is "should be") competing to win 3* covers and the ISO needed to finish them. A 3* roster is typically competing to win covers and ISO for a 4* character. This makes logical sense, but the reward structure doesn't bear that out.

Most games recognize this by adjusting the frequency of rare/legendary item drops to match the difficulty level of the dungeon/map/level - which is also tuned to be appropriate for a certain class of player. The early players can wander into the harder dungeons and might accidentally pick up a legendary item, but they are more likely to get killed by the weakest creature that dungeon has in the very first room. Meanwhile veteran players can go back to easy dungeons and run them in their sleep, but all you will win is plain leather boots and rusty short swords. MPQ could arguably do the same thing, though it would take some thought.

If 2* teams going head to head are competing for the same prizes as the 3* teams that are also power-matched against each other; what was the value in transitioning to become a 3* player? So you could fight tougher opponents for the same prizes? PVE events are sharded; most of us know this. There is usually a 'veteran' and a 'beginner' bracket loading at the same time in your slice. Why these brackets have identical prize pools is a complete mystery.

Shard PVE, fine. Shard PVP, fine. But don't have the same prizes in for every difficulty/skill level.

Arondite

Phillipes wrote:

I have written this numerous times, Im going to write it again, developers are incompetent, vithout vision, game is not improving at all, practicly fom several months. No, adding new character every week is NOT an improvement. (But Im giving you credit for selectable time slices.)

They want vets leaving the game (if vets leave, who will be cursing on this forum? )

Fighting maxed teams just after seed teams...
Fighting 3 seed teams... And forth match against 290 Hulk... So sad and cruel.

Again and again, they dictate us, when we need to play, because playing against maxed teams with your maxed teams (unbeatable without maxed teams ofc) is draining healtpacks super fast...Absolute necessity for MASSIVE out game communication, making non-agression pacts with other alliances, being part of top - alliances truce, just to decrease of being hit be others, intentionaly loosing to ohter members just help them to increase chance to reach 1000 ...

Developers, do you know that people are maybe 90 % time outside this game, coordinating, recruiting, doing everything just to decrease the negative impact you are constantly making with your changes? You have there one from you - IceIX, ask him !!

I don´t know any game who punishes you as you progress, and I´m gamer for 20 years.
It is irony to have end - game PVP roster and not to abe ble to reach end - game PVP scores...

If you really want to leave MMR like this, then give us possiblity to to downgrade characters ! I would downgrade my X-force and others to level 94 and I want to crush 2* teams, as before ! That was the reason why I have grinded so hard and so long for it !
Why the heck did I maxed my X-force? To fight others X-forces from beginning? Do you think this is normal? Kamala Khan PVP was normal again - IT WAS AS IT SHOULD BE !!!

Developers: simply tell us you want us to leave this game, that you don´t want us here, and I´m certaing I won´t be only one who will comly.

Don't worry, they'll release the Vision in 3 weeks
:^)

shatland

sorry, after that first "vithout" i couldn't help but read the rest of your rant with count chocula's voice.

slidecage

ephyzephy wrote:

I think you miss the point though. Changing the matchmaking was probably always on the cards, but it's the timing of that change and the botched implementation of that change that is causing the issues. It's like the NFL changing to 10 points for a TD and 20 yards for a 1st down in week 3 of a season, then reverting back in the next week and then changing to 150 yard pitches the following week. If there is sound logic behind the changes, then it is well hidden behind the amateur implementation and communication!

i complain about this when they did boosted people at the end of the last season and people said i was just crying about it and had no right to ****. when it helped the major players but now when something effect them its time to change it all or everyone should leave.

MaskedMan

I tend to agree the new changes both in PvP and in PvE are crazy. I guess they assume everyone has a maxed out team since you can pick up 3*'s from Deadpool now but even if that WERE true getting the ISO takes forever. Unless of course you just buy everything but then why play? Buying should supplement play not replace it.

Like the poster I have 3 166s and 2 in 150s. I can fight like 6 battles in Hulk PvP before my team is wiped out and I have no one who stands a chance left. I have this huge line up of characters I CAN'T PLAY. The only time I ever got to get them out was at the beginning of PvPs and in the low PvEs.

Now of course they have eliminated both. What is someone with 2 star characters supposed to do with them exactly when the latest event STARTS with 157 mobs and goes up from there?

Personally I could care less about PvP as a play mode. I just want to PLAY.

Is it so bad to have an event that gradually goes up and each fight is harder than the last forcing everyone to see how long they can last? Then even 1* teams can play. If they feel obligated to make the game harder than that set a turn counter and give extra rewards for a quick kill but increase difficulty faster. Actually that last is nice as it allows players to play how they want also i.e. put 166s in the first fights and difficulty will ramp up FAST, play your low characters and work up to higher ones and you have an evenings entertainment.

Sadly I had a feeling this was coming though. The Deadpool daily is the kind of thing game designers put in on a failing product. "Quick give away everything we held back before and maybe we can keep them paying a while longer". Giving away the store is standard behavior when things are going badly. Now I feel like I'm trapped on the island of Dr. Moreau with some madman mercilessly experimenting on me.

Not sure how long I can last here I have already starting checking out other games. Problem is I actually like playing this game, well I would if I could...

TheOncomingStorm

Deleted by me.

http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27320

Bwanis

Couldn't agree more with original poster. I encourage everyone who is unhappy with the state of the game to go to the App Store are rate the game accordingly. I'm on my way there now to post an honest review and give it 1 star. Maybe they'll listen to that voice as they are clearly not listening to players posting in the forums

Ludaa

/tinfoil hat

The game is too good! They never expected people to stick around on a mobile match-3 game for a year or more. Now the developed rosters, which are more self-sustaining, have reached a population that is creating a barrier to entry for new players! So, they have two options. Develop separate content for vets, or take a baton to their knees! The truth is out there...