The 4* Meta Will Kill This Game

Spoit

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

But now? If you want to round out those characters, you'd better be ready to pay through the nose. One consistent complaint I've had about this game basically from the start is how insubstantial a $5 purchase is. $5 gets me one character slot or 1.5 levels of a 3* character (less than one on a 4*). You know what $5 gets me in Smash Bros? Mewtwo on both consoles. If I only want the WiiU version, it's even cheaper. Okay, so I have to pay $60 for the base game, but hey, that gets me Smash Bros. What does 60 bucks get me here? Three covers on a 4*, or 6 on a 3*. And with the way things are now, you need to buy those covers, because even if you win every single event you enter with 1000+ points, it's going to take you months to finish the character. Because the pool is so dilute, that by the time your 4*s are actually worth using, the whales will have bought all the covers, finished them, and will be clogging up the top spots.

I think comparing the monetization scheme on a f2p game to something like Smash Bros isn't fair, since it's not a realistic comparison. The monetization schemes are completely different for the two games: it's like saying "why would I pay 300 dollars for an xbox when I can buy a deck of cards for a dollar, or walk outside for free?". A better comparison would be to other, successful f2p mobile games like Clash of Clans or something along those lines, in which case I'm guessing that MPQ is looking reasonable (which is ridiculous in of itself). That being said, when compared to something like Puzzle & Dragons (which has the best f2p monetization scheme I've seen), MPQ is definitely sorely lacking.

How about a comparison with other (marvel) F2P games then? you can get a whole character for the price of a single 3* cover in marvel heroes. Almost 2.5 of them if you go and buy a random hero box instead, when they have them.

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Professor X is not a trophy. He's phenomenally lethal.

I managed top ten in his release tournament and still only have two colors for him. He's a trophy until he's usable, and he's not remotely usable right now for anyone that isn't either a whale or has had insanely (or, more accurately, suspiciously) good luck.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

He is. Except, he is unusable by over 90% of the player base. Even people who won 3 covers and got the progression cover and opened 1 in a token still only have 5 of his 13 covers. He is "phenomenally lethal" only in the hands of those who dumped crazy resources on him. Wasn't your whole point that is the reason the 4* meta will kill the game?

Well... Yeah. Part of that point being that the person who pays for Professor X has a huge leg up on the guy who doesn't. That's the whole point - the whales have a huge advantage over the non-whales. I'd place him solidly within the top 5, and in terms of "best teammate for 4thor and XForce, he's also way up there, covering the last uncovered color and offering two very strong passive skills.

Unknown

In every F2P game ever made the whales have a huge advantage over the non whales. It's part of the game's design. Good F2P games allow Free players to be competitive by investing time over money, not winning the top spot usually but easily top 10, and I feel like that's where MPQ is at right now.

The 4* release schedule of 1 a month where it takes 6-10 months to cover them tho is still bad, widening that gap between free players and pay to win players. And it will only get worse as more 4*s hit the scene.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

In every F2P game ever made the whales have a huge advantage over the non whales. It's part of the game's design.

Umm... DotA2, Team Fortress 2, Path of Exile?

Unknown

TF2 didn't start out as free to play. Also if you pay for the extra kits don't you have an advantage over people who don't? Haven't played the others, but I imagine the whales have some kind of advantage. Unless the pay features are literally only cosmetic.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

TF2 didn't start out as free to play. Also if you pay for the extra kits don't you have an advantage over people who don't? Haven't played the others, but I imagine the whales have some kind of advantage. Unless the pay features are literally only cosmetic.

They're sidegrades and typically very well balanced. Also, PoE gets by on 100% cosmetics.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

TF2 didn't start out as free to play. Also if you pay for the extra kits don't you have an advantage over people who don't? Haven't played the others, but I imagine the whales have some kind of advantage. Unless the pay features are literally only cosmetic.

Buying every weapon in basic version from trading your own drops is akin to getting to 2* here or easier and as been said, all are sidegrade (most powerful loadouts still use vanilla/achievement gear). Small fries trade and get cosmetic stuff like weapon that count kills, whales are buying glowing hats. PoE and DotA2 are 100% cosmetic and both are one of biggest games in their genres. F2P games can be completely fair for both free players and whales, it just takes bit more works than slowing progression to 'just fun enough' then selling skips. I'm actually surprised they didn't touched that at all, just look at reaction when some covers changed, they could totally sell customisable hero covers and skins. Just no hats. Capes could pass.

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

TF2 didn't start out as free to play. Also if you pay for the extra kits don't you have an advantage over people who don't? Haven't played the others, but I imagine the whales have some kind of advantage. Unless the pay features are literally only cosmetic.

They're sidegrades and typically very well balanced. Also, PoE gets by on 100% cosmetics.

I haven't played TF2 in a while but when I was playing a lot of the so-called "sidegrades" were clearly better, and a lot of them (Bonk bat, anyone?) followed the "supremely overpowered followed by a nerf a month or two later" pattern that should be familiar to MPQ players

mohio

Sorry I'm being too lazy to go back and quote the guy saying they should offer 4* rewards in "normal" events instead of pumping out new ones all the time. I totally agree! and was thinking about this a while ago. I figured they would make a lot of people happy not to have to grind for a new 4* and also make some more of those happy by offering more ways to get xforce covers, or prof x covers, etc. I think if they keep the same structure as they have currently except every other 4* PvE is for an old one instead of a new one, that would help a lot. Thus, basically once a month there are PvE rewards for 4* - half of those should be new and half should be older 4* instead. Maybe even more often than that, but I suspect the 2-3* folk would get upset by any more often than that since PvE is their bread and butter and taking away more 3* from them would not make them happy.

dfields3710

I have 3 4*characters used to have 4. I have xforce at three covers. I got two covers for just $20! Personally I agree with the complaints but I came to understand that paying for covers will always help you faster than getting free ones( though I haven't got one nick fury yet). I don't really care for Wilson Fisk (I like starlord better). My complaint that MPQ are rushing things. Even though there are a alot of marvel characters. They are only a handful of useful and likable ones. I think they need slow down and fix things in the game rather than adding more characters.

I would rather face a cheap character with low-mid cascades than face a cheap character with mid-high cascades leading to more of there powers being used leading to my team getting annihilated.

But back to the topic at hand. I know people who spend money on MPQ. They are far better than me because they spend actual money! Im progressing slower because I dont. I may spend $25 every blue moon because i want to. Common sense would tell you buyers or free-vets will be farther because of they spend money or they have played MPQ for a long time. Now for the prices I agree is too much for the covers you get.

If you're not going to pay for a little help, get over it! But all the other complaints I agree with.

Unknown

Part of the complaint is even if you wanted to spend money on covers you can't unless you already have that cover. You can not buy Nick Fury covers right now. And since they don't run the 4* PvPs a second time (as of yet), you also can't buy Nick Fury cover packs where he is a whoping 3.2% draw rate, so a 42 pack has a 75% chance of at least 1 Nick Fury cover. Instead you are stuck with heroic packs where he is a mere 0.4% draw rate, so a 42 pack has a lovely 15.5% chance of having at least one Nick Fury in it*. That would mean you need 4 42 packs to even have a 50/50 shot at at least one Nick Fury. THAT price is outrageous.

How do you fix that? You rerun a PvE event with Nick Fury as the prize. Then the PvE after that one at least has boosted Nick Fury pulls for token buyers as well. (But don't buy tokens. Seriously, just don't.)

Players build characters mostly off of prizes, with random tokens thrown in. How then, are players to build 4* characters, when the prize is only handed out once and then you are forced to goto PvP progression and placement of season for covers?

*

100% - (1-0.4%)^42 = 15.5%
(total odds) - (odds to not pull Nick Fury)^number of pulls = odds to pull at least one Fury

Unknown

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I don't see how any of this is a problem. 4 stars as they are do not give people a substantially huge advantage and hitting the 1K progression reward is not difficult. It's just a matter on how well you coordinate, how well you shield, and a little bit of timing.

I've officially dropped out of my main alliance some months ago and have had no problems progressing in the pvps in which I decide to compete for covers. I was inactive when Cyclops and Iron Fists dropped and do far they are the only two 3* characters in missing. I'm also missing Xavier and Star Lord but I don't feel limited for having them. Even with this current release of Kingpin, I ask you one question, does it really matter? Outside of the upcoming PvE after Thick As Thieves, when will he ever be essential for nodes? The other 4 star characters have seldom been required since they were released.

(snip)

If anyone feels like there's too many releases and that you're getting left behind or burnt out. Take a break. You won't care after that first month and you've missed about 3 characters. This is just a game and if you find the character releases to frequent then you should probably take a second look at how much this game matters to you. I had to do it, you probably should too.

Amen, brother. I dropped out of my alliance and merc when I decide I want to play for covers, first for my old alliance if they need it, and then for others that I've become friendly with. I'm soooo much happier and less burnt out, but I can definitely still compete at high levels. I've gotten at least one cover for each new 3* character, but I accept that I won't be progressing much further into the 4* meta beyond the Fury, X-Force, and 4or I already have built. The truth is, after 515 days (and about $150), I know the lifespan of this game for me is no where near long enough to build any more 4 stars from scratch. The way things are going they're just not worth it. I plan to slowly stroll down from the summit, losing altitude a bit at a time. The whole boosted 3*s thing will make that descent even slower. I may wake up one day and no longer be competitive, but you hit it on the head. I'm surprised to find that after a month, that doesn't bother me one bit.

Druss

My concern with the 4* is that it destroys the rest of your roster.

With the new matchmaking, because I have XF everything is scaled to that fact - at below 100 points in PvP I'm seeing solid 249/270/270's.

Shall I throw Psylocke & Punisher at that? - even if I did win, the retaliation would happen before I've even collected my 70 iso!

Therefore I'm forced to use XF & next battle .... forced to use XF etc. - This is the death of the game imo.

Surely a PvP should flow in a start easier get gradually harder sort of way.

The way the 4* land stands now there is no path to getting the 4*'s for a 3* roster (except $$) & no point to getting them anyway, as you are now only going to be playing X-boring vs X-boring every match.

Given the above, what's the point of introducing Kamala (or any other character for that matter) - the 3* peeps wont be able to use her to climb to 4* land & the 4* guys are only using X-F anyway!

Unknown

Druss wrote:

Surely a PvP should flow in a start easier get gradually harder sort of way.

Why? Why should your 270 XF be allowed to beat up on 94s and 166s to climb up points? Are you saying if you saw other targets you WOULDN'T use your XF because you wouldn't be "forced" to? Because I don't believe that.

Unknown

The game is already on life support.

SnowcaTT

Lerysh wrote:

Druss wrote:

Surely a PvP should flow in a start easier get gradually harder sort of way.

Why? Why should your 270 XF be allowed to beat up on 94s and 166s to climb up points? Are you saying if you saw other targets you WOULDN'T use your XF because you wouldn't be "forced" to? Because I don't believe that.

The reason I leveled many to 127 and 140 was to play them on the way, that's just tough enough to use against 2* and 3* transitioners. I used those characters all the time on the climb, it made for a fun diversity. Trying different teams. Sure, the -last- battle was always XF/hood; but the ones before that certainly weren't.

Now every single match -must- be XF, because if it isn't I'll see instant retaliation. Probably will see that anyway (less boosts means a bit less likely), if I dare *gasp* get above 300 points before the last day.

ronin_san

Xenoberyll wrote:

Endgame is just completing your collection, there's nearly no progress other than that.

YEP

Unknown

I don't disagree with OP, but here's a fun fact, if they decide to buff multiple characters in pvp every week, like they did at the end of the previous season, 4* will become instantly redundant.

I had zero reasons to use my 270 xforce in those two pvp's, he was eaaasily outclassed by the buffed 3*. Fury's a 4* and he was buffed too? Yep, only 400k iso to max him and he would've been useful. For one week. Then he'd be exactly useless. Again. And he's arguably the second best 4*.

The current MMR situation means all the 4* owning whales will clash with each other right after seed teams anyway, there's exactly one 4* who is unquestionably great for pvp anyway.

My problem is not so much the overabundance of 4*, I can live with slowly collecting them from pvp progs, however long that takes (except right now it's actually near impossible), it is the fact that they are not very useful and provide a horrible return on investment in terms of iso expenditure, time and god forbid actually buying covers with cash.

As far as this game's iap's being horrible value for money, what else is new? I agree, this game's iap's are horrible value for money, buying 4* covers with cash isn't a wise investment, but whales be whaling, I guess.

simonsez

Lerysh wrote:

Why? Why should your 270 XF be allowed to beat up on 94s and 166s to climb up points?

If there's no longer any benefit at all to getting good characters, I've lost focus on what the point of this game is.