GothicKratos wrote: Colognoisseur wrote: Games which have succeeded long-term have always made sure that very top percentage is playing for something they think is cool. Even if D3 just had a tourney where they gave out a crown which went next to your name I think they would see people at the top end work for that. They already spend resources to get an ephemeral score that lasts the length of time a leaderboard remains visible. None of this is game breaking none of this is unbalancing. If a new player shows up and they want to know what makes a good player great and they see Jamie Madrox with a crown next to his name and they find out he is the "King of MPQ" they now know what the upper limit looks like. This is my point though. MPQ doesn't have that and maybe, just maybe, they don't want it to have that? MPQ isn't designed to be a competitive game, in my opinion. It's not Skullgirls, it's not Call of Duty, it's not Starcraft, it's not League of Legends. It's Candy Crush with Marvel properties.
Colognoisseur wrote: Games which have succeeded long-term have always made sure that very top percentage is playing for something they think is cool. Even if D3 just had a tourney where they gave out a crown which went next to your name I think they would see people at the top end work for that. They already spend resources to get an ephemeral score that lasts the length of time a leaderboard remains visible. None of this is game breaking none of this is unbalancing. If a new player shows up and they want to know what makes a good player great and they see Jamie Madrox with a crown next to his name and they find out he is the "King of MPQ" they now know what the upper limit looks like.
Trisul wrote: LoreNYC wrote: A general question that no one seems to ask but is in many of the comments is, "What is the goal of MPQ?" Can you beat it? no - so achievements? - no, Scores vanish after a few days. What's left? - Your roster- it's the only thing to show what you've accomplished Now when progression is removed where end goals (like 4*) are made into worthless trophies something will happen. Players will come to realize that although the core - albeit extremely simple - match system is fun for short stints, players will get bored with an unevolving gameplay. The goals they achieved will then be changed into something worthless. The whole purpose of play - to gain/earn/rise - is removed. What's left? Bejeweled with a Marvel logo The problem with the current meta point systems is they force tedious play style because the reward bands are stingy. Is this to stretch out these goals? Why do only 10 out of 1000 get the first 3 of 13 covers of a new character when maybe half of those people played more than enough to earn the rewards. I guess because the top 10 don't sleep? Is that really good game design? There's a rotten core and MPQ despite having well done effects and great art with a huge backlog of Marvel to pick from. If the devs would be willing to try other games and see why they work, why people enjoy them, what's enticing and keeps people coming back. They might fix the major flaws with MPQ. We don't want to play 50 hours in one pve for fun. It's tedious. It's terrible. 12 hour double subs is one of the worst aspects of the game and a terrible half-way at rehashing old content. Remove the grindy elements of the game. The gauntlet is great despite the rewards because it's play at your own pace. Deadpool Daily is fantastic because it's play at your own pace. Fix the core. Worry about characters later What's sad is, there's no incentive to fix things with any urgency if the money is already rolling in (which is what I suspect).
LoreNYC wrote: A general question that no one seems to ask but is in many of the comments is, "What is the goal of MPQ?" Can you beat it? no - so achievements? - no, Scores vanish after a few days. What's left? - Your roster- it's the only thing to show what you've accomplished Now when progression is removed where end goals (like 4*) are made into worthless trophies something will happen. Players will come to realize that although the core - albeit extremely simple - match system is fun for short stints, players will get bored with an unevolving gameplay. The goals they achieved will then be changed into something worthless. The whole purpose of play - to gain/earn/rise - is removed. What's left? Bejeweled with a Marvel logo The problem with the current meta point systems is they force tedious play style because the reward bands are stingy. Is this to stretch out these goals? Why do only 10 out of 1000 get the first 3 of 13 covers of a new character when maybe half of those people played more than enough to earn the rewards. I guess because the top 10 don't sleep? Is that really good game design? There's a rotten core and MPQ despite having well done effects and great art with a huge backlog of Marvel to pick from. If the devs would be willing to try other games and see why they work, why people enjoy them, what's enticing and keeps people coming back. They might fix the major flaws with MPQ. We don't want to play 50 hours in one pve for fun. It's tedious. It's terrible. 12 hour double subs is one of the worst aspects of the game and a terrible half-way at rehashing old content. Remove the grindy elements of the game. The gauntlet is great despite the rewards because it's play at your own pace. Deadpool Daily is fantastic because it's play at your own pace. Fix the core. Worry about characters later
Vhailorx wrote: One slightly different argument expressed by OP, Colog, and others is the that the nerfing of 4*s threatens the fundamental endgame progression (which has been to collect 4*s). This topic opens up a broader question about what MPQ is, what it should be, and which player-group should be prioritized.
Vhailorx wrote: I do think that the devs have not yet sorted out what 4*s are supposed to be. Is the gap between 3* land and 4* land supposed to be as big as that be 1* and 2*s, or 2* and 3*s? If so, then it seems to me that 4* thor and Xforce were about right. A top 3* team could be designed to beat a thorverine team, but there was always substantial risk of a devastating enemy cascade or unfavorable board. That risk meant that 3*s couldn't really compete in pvp (which mandates speed and reliable victory). At the same time, all of the other (pre-Xavier) 4*s were clearly too weak for that standard. They were just more expensive 3*s that were way way harder to get and thus generally not worth the effort (a bit too early to tell with xavier).
Vhailorx wrote: If, on the other hand, the 4*s were always meant to play just slightly above the level of the best 3*s, then things are totally messed up. most 4*s are actually weaker than the best 3*s, and two 4*s dominate the field. and since dominating the field is basically required to get more 4* covers at anything like a reasonable rate, it was a classic positive feedback loop where the only way to get the top rewards to already have the top rewards. Personally, I don't see how it is possible for the devs to create and maintain a 4* tier that is just a little bit above, but still playable with 3*s. Given the speedy development cycle, there will always be outlier characters, and they will destroy any attempt to carefully calibrate two tiers that close to each other. And in the long run, introducing new endgame content is the only way to keep veterans interested. So it seems to me that 4* land really should be separated from 3* land by a big gap. That will give the devs room to maneuver with character design so that they won't immediately wreck the progression structure if they release an outlier like Iron Fist or Lazy Thor (and then 5*s can be introduced for a new trophy class as the final reward)
puppychow wrote: LoreNYC wrote: The problem with the current meta point systems is they force tedious play style because the reward bands are stingy. Is this to stretch out these goals? Why do only 10 out of 1000 get the first 3 of 13 covers of a new character when maybe half of those people played more than enough to earn the rewards. I guess because the top 10 don't sleep? Is that really good game design? There's a rotten core and MPQ despite having well done effects and great art with a huge backlog of Marvel to pick from. If the devs would be willing to try other games and see why they work, why people enjoy them, what's enticing and keeps people coming back. They might fix the major flaws with MPQ. We don't want to play 50 hours in one pve for fun. It's tedious. It's terrible. 12 hour double subs is one of the worst aspects of the game and a terrible half-way at rehashing old content. Remove the grindy elements of the game. The gauntlet is great despite the rewards because it's play at your own pace. Deadpool Daily is fantastic because it's play at your own pace. While you raise an excellent point re: reward band, I think the answer is quite simple. First, by making the first 3 covers so exclusive, the exclusivity encourages players to grind, and perhaps in the process buy health packs to keep up with the pace. If you're a player who is JUST out of top 10 and out of heal packs to continue your grind, the pressure to buy the packs and continue on is tremendous because the alternative means you wasted all that time grinding for the third cover that you won't be able to get. Second, the exclusivity of newly released covers create pressure on the player base to BUY cover packs, and hope they'll get the new cover. So while the reward scheme is indeed terrible for the player base, D3 knows what it's doing and their goal is to convince players to pay for health packs and cover packs.
LoreNYC wrote: The problem with the current meta point systems is they force tedious play style because the reward bands are stingy. Is this to stretch out these goals? Why do only 10 out of 1000 get the first 3 of 13 covers of a new character when maybe half of those people played more than enough to earn the rewards. I guess because the top 10 don't sleep? Is that really good game design? There's a rotten core and MPQ despite having well done effects and great art with a huge backlog of Marvel to pick from. If the devs would be willing to try other games and see why they work, why people enjoy them, what's enticing and keeps people coming back. They might fix the major flaws with MPQ. We don't want to play 50 hours in one pve for fun. It's tedious. It's terrible. 12 hour double subs is one of the worst aspects of the game and a terrible half-way at rehashing old content. Remove the grindy elements of the game. The gauntlet is great despite the rewards because it's play at your own pace. Deadpool Daily is fantastic because it's play at your own pace.
Vhailorx wrote: OP's thread proclaimed that it wasn't just another thread complaining about increased personal difficulty with the recent changes.
camichan wrote: GothicKratos wrote: Fiscally speaking, isn't that the best way to go about it? To cater to the average player. I think a lot of people forget this is a mobile game and it's catering to mobile game players. The top percentile of the player pool is automatically the minority, and to think that you'll be pandered to is probably a little naive? Now, I'm not saying that your complaints are invalid, I am however saying that you're probably thinking a bit above the box. It's a good question. Someone posted this link a week or so ago in another thread (sorry I can't give credit because I cannot remember who originally posted it):http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/26/only- ... exclusive/ Not sure whether this is correct, and even if it's correct if it applies to MPQ, but I also think it suggests its at least debatable whether top players thinking/feeling the way they do is naive.
GothicKratos wrote: Fiscally speaking, isn't that the best way to go about it? To cater to the average player. I think a lot of people forget this is a mobile game and it's catering to mobile game players. The top percentile of the player pool is automatically the minority, and to think that you'll be pandered to is probably a little naive? Now, I'm not saying that your complaints are invalid, I am however saying that you're probably thinking a bit above the box.
puppychow wrote: While you raise an excellent point re: reward band, I think the answer is quite simple. First, by making the first 3 covers so exclusive, the exclusivity encourages players to grind, and perhaps in the process buy health packs to keep up with the pace. If you're a player who is JUST out of top 10 and out of heal packs to continue your grind, the pressure to buy the packs and continue on is tremendous because the alternative means you wasted all that time grinding for the third cover that you won't be able to get. Second, the exclusivity of newly released covers create pressure on the player base to BUY cover packs, and hope they'll get the new cover. So while the reward scheme is indeed terrible for the player base, D3 knows what it's doing and their goal is to convince players to pay for health packs and cover packs.
kensterr wrote: My alliance mates are already trying out other Marvel games instead of trying to give suggestions that will be ignored by Demiurge.
Colognoisseur wrote: I think it is this lack of progression where the devs have a blind spot. They don't get how important it is to have something cool to strive for. If there aren't cool things to play for it all eventually seems pointless. If they aren't going to give us overpowered characters then they need to give something else to the very best players to achieve. I keep saying this but it is because the devs don't play the game at that level that they don't understand this. They design the game to their average roster and their average ability at the game. How I wish they'd just talk to their mods before implementing their next "fun" idea. They just might save themselves from themselves.
shade_tree wrote: dkffiv wrote: The problem is you can't be in a top 100 alliance with that style of play. The bonus cover per event is really nice and the legendary cover at the end of the season (used to be) enticing. A brief perusal of the alliance recruiting page reveals that 600 points per PVP will get you into at least a couple Top 100 PVP alliances. When I get completely burned out on PVE and being a Top 100 PVE alliance commander, I'll likely join a PVP-only alliance, late-start every event, and move even further into retirement. Oh, and just to reply to grunth's post, I have maybe four covers for Thora / Starlord / Elektra / Fury and my XF is 5/5/2 and lvl 180. But yes, my 3*s are solid. Sorry for all the OT posting.
dkffiv wrote: The problem is you can't be in a top 100 alliance with that style of play. The bonus cover per event is really nice and the legendary cover at the end of the season (used to be) enticing.
Phillipes wrote: shade_tree wrote: dkffiv wrote: The problem is you can't be in a top 100 alliance with that style of play. The bonus cover per event is really nice and the legendary cover at the end of the season (used to be) enticing. A brief perusal of the alliance recruiting page reveals that 600 points per PVP will get you into at least a couple Top 100 PVP alliances. When I get completely burned out on PVE and being a Top 100 PVE alliance commander, I'll likely join a PVP-only alliance, late-start every event, and move even further into retirement. Oh, and just to reply to grunth's post, I have maybe four covers for Thora / Starlord / Elektra / Fury and my XF is 5/5/2 and lvl 180. But yes, my 3*s are solid. Sorry for all the OT posting. That absouletely isn´t true. And if it is, there are 5 - 6 members who hits 1000+ point regulary. It was true maybe in season 5. Don´t post about things you clearly don´t have any clue.
Pylgrim wrote: I dunno, I actually had an easier time after the buffs, reaching my first 1k since the change to the shields. Yeah, dudes have super lots of HP, but my man Patch put out strike tiles so powerful that it was like cutting through wet paper. And his own beastly HP paired with ridiculous amounts of regeneration, soaked up as many Sunders as the AI threw at my face with HP leftover to laugh at Onslaught.
gobstopper wrote: Pylgrim wrote: I dunno, I actually had an easier time after the buffs, reaching my first 1k since the change to the shields. Yeah, dudes have super lots of HP, but my man Patch put out strike tiles so powerful that it was like cutting through wet paper. And his own beastly HP paired with ridiculous amounts of regeneration, soaked up as many Sunders as the AI threw at my face with HP leftover to laugh at Onslaught. Your MMR must really be in the dumps if you're using Ares as an example of how powerful Patch is buffed. In other words, despite Ares' palpable strength when buffed, you should still be facing nothing but maxed buffed 3*s / XF / occasional Goddess once you hit 700+.