ISO - the biggest reason for lack of roster diversity

Unknown

Currently I have 26 roster spots. 11 of which are 3 star characters and very soon a 12th one will be added in.

Of those 12, only three are at a decent level. IM40, Grey Widow and Spidey. All around 90.

The average reward in a standard PVP battle is 105 ISO. Soon to be 127. For these examples I will use the new, more generous reward structure.

In order to level any three star character to level 85, I need to fight and win 447 battles, without boosts.

In order to level that three star character from level 85 to max level, I need to fight and win an additional 913 battles without boosts.

Generally speaking, battles against stronger opponents can usually take 3 to 5 minutes depending on buffs and other circumstances. Maybe even longer if you are not using boosts. There is also some time wasted in the UI lining up your next battles. So 4 minutes per battle might even be a low end estimate.


So it theoretically takes about 90 hours and thirty minutes to level up one 3 star character by PVP rewards alone. Even if you factor in the rewards you are getting from the progression rewards of a PVP tourney ( currently about 3000 per), that only reduces it to 76 hours of play time.

If you play 4 hours a day, that means about 19 days of playing to max level a three star character.

--- /// ---

So,I don't know how nerfing certain characters will promote roster diversity when the scarcity of ISO is so severe that it makes leveling up a three star character (into a formidable ally) a huge mountain to climb.

Unknown

I think you put yourself at a big disadvantage just using pvp rewards as a measuring stick here. Now that they have pve events running alongside pvp events, the first completion, 100, and 500 iso rewards can also be factored in. Not to mention the iso gained from progression and event rewards, and selling off of no longer needed covers, I would even go so far as to say to level a 3 star to max would be a third of the time your predicting, without doing any hard math myself.

Unknown

Skyedyne wrote:

I think you put yourself at a big disadvantage just using pvp rewards as a measuring stick here. Now that they have pve events running alongside pvp events, the first completion, 100, and 500 iso rewards can also be factored in. Not to mention the iso gained from progression and event rewards, and selling off of no longer needed covers, I would even go so far as to say to level a 3 star to max would be a third of the time your predicting, without doing any hard math myself.

I think you mean the 20, 20, 20 and 20 ISO rewards. Oh, also the 20 ISO rewards.

Unknown

there are currently 21 pve missions with [500iso rewards/tokens(100iso sell)/100iso/boost (700iso)+ (20 iso x non reward wins (4.33) 86.66)]+ first time clear(100 or 200) /( you would have to play to get every reward on avg 8.33 turns) =
100 clear bonus =106.44iso
200 clear bonus=118.44iso
give or take a few if you are selling 2*

avg value for first clear =275 or 375 (100isobonus/200iso)
avg value for each clear if you got the boost first round (until you get iso)=135

value for a beginner 500iso+/token (500iso)/100iso/boots(200iso) + 86,66+ (100 /or 200) / 8.33 = 168/180 iso


times to clear
1+4/3+4/2+4/1=8.33 turns

Unknown

Skyedyne wrote:

I think you put yourself at a big disadvantage just using pvp rewards as a measuring stick here. Now that they have pve events running alongside pvp events, the first completion, 100, and 500 iso rewards can also be factored in. Not to mention the iso gained from progression and event rewards, and selling off of no longer needed covers, I would even go so far as to say to level a 3 star to max would be a third of the time your predicting, without doing any hard math myself.

I play PVP + PVE and I guess at least 2h a day. Dividing the ISO I spent through the days I've played, it takes me about 3 weeks to fully level a 3 star. That's between 40 and 50 hours depending on how rewarding the current events are.

Unknown

one run clear pve (without rewards)
@85 206/151 matches
@141 628/461 matches

so it's way less then the first math if you play casually rather then hardcore

Eddiemon

Get the bonus ISO from lightning rounds to 100.
Get the bonus ISO from selling unneeded covers from the standard tokens.
Get the bonus ISO from placing in a tournament. Even participating usually pays.
You can make a bundle of quick ISO by hitting a tourney at the start when they are presenting crash test dummies as opponents.

Doing it the hard way is, well, hard.

And I use plenty of characters below level 85 because they are fun and the abilities start decently powered in most cases.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

Get the bonus ISO from lightning rounds to 100.

this is great for iso
1st round 337iso
2nd 227
3-5 203iso

you're playing 3 matches against lvl 1s , 2 against 10-20s for 1173 iso every 2hrs just for logging in 15min

Unknown

I agree ISO generation sucks right now.
We have such a huge roster, growing by the day, and you only get to play the same 3 or 4 characters because ISO is so hard to come by.
A 3*** char takes 170k+ to cap... that's 34 days if you manage to rack up 5000 ISO daily, which seems like a fair number for most people.
They need to seriously step it up to keep the game interesting. Going from 105 average per match to 127 point whatever is gonna do nothing.
Also ISO deals suck so much. I mean, even buying the biggest one, while it was giving extra ISO, you were getting like 700 ISO per euro. Seriously???

Unknown

You seem to be forgetting that 3* characters are, basically, end game content. It should take you a long time to max one out. MPQ, like other massively multi-player online games, is supposed to be a grind. This game is a marathon, not a sprint.

If you want to level fast, try World of Warcraft. At the rate you can level, pretty soon, they'll just have a button that says "click here to hit max level and claim all end game content".

Unknown

Skyedyne wrote:

I think you put yourself at a big disadvantage just using pvp rewards as a measuring stick here. Now that they have pve events running alongside pvp events, the first completion, 100, and 500 iso rewards can also be factored in. Not to mention the iso gained from progression and event rewards, and selling off of no longer needed covers, I would even go so far as to say to level a 3 star to max would be a third of the time your predicting, without doing any hard math myself.

I disregarded PvE because those are intermittent events. Also, trying to grind all 4 missions to earn the (800-900) ISO each, essentially becomes a wash if it takes you 8 tries to do so. You could have competed in PVP matches and made the same amount of ISO. Although, I admit that many of the PvE matches are easier than what you would find in a PvP event (if your MMR is high).

GundamRangerX wrote:

You seem to be forgetting that 3* characters are, basically, end game content. It should take you a long time to max one out. MPQ, like other massively multi-player online games, is supposed to be a grind. This game is a marathon, not a sprint.

I disagree. There are 4 star characters that can be leveled up to lvl 241 (try to do the mental math on leveling them up .. yikes!). Those are the 'end game content' and I'm sure a few more of those are coming down the pike.

I agree with you that this game should be a bit of a grind and that it should be played in terms of months/weeks and not days or hours, but having to ostensibly play 4 hours a day for 3 weeks to level up one character seems a bit much. Especially when you have 10 or 11 other ones sitting on your roster collecting dust.


I'm not looking for an instant win button, but rather something less daunting to help fully enjoy our 'prizes'.

You're going to have FAR more people quit MPQ because they are sick of incessently grinding for ISO, versus ones that quit because they have run themselves out of content.

itstime1234

Toxicadam wrote:

Skyedyne wrote:

I think you put yourself at a big disadvantage just using pvp rewards as a measuring stick here. Now that they have pve events running alongside pvp events, the first completion, 100, and 500 iso rewards can also be factored in. Not to mention the iso gained from progression and event rewards, and selling off of no longer needed covers, I would even go so far as to say to level a 3 star to max would be a third of the time your predicting, without doing any hard math myself.

I disregarded PvE because those are intermittent events. Also, trying to grind all 4 missions to earn the (800-900) ISO each, essentially becomes a wash if it takes you 8 tries to do so. You could have competed in PVP matches and made the same amount of ISO. Although, I admit that many of the PvE matches are easier than what you would find in a PvP event (if your MMR is high).

GundamRangerX wrote:

You seem to be forgetting that 3* characters are, basically, end game content. It should take you a long time to max one out. MPQ, like other massively multi-player online games, is supposed to be a grind. This game is a marathon, not a sprint.

I disagree. There are 4 star characters that can be leveled up to lvl 241 (try to do the mental math on leveling them up .. yikes!). Those are the 'end game content' and I'm sure a few more of those are coming down the pike.

I agree with you that this game should be a bit of a grind and that it should be played in terms of months/weeks and not days or hours, but having to ostensibly play 4 hours a day for 3 weeks to level up one character seems a bit much. Especially when you have 10 or 11 other ones sitting on your roster collecting dust.


I'm not looking for an instant win button, but rather something less daunting to help fully enjoy our 'prizes'.

You're going to have FAR more people quit MPQ because they are sick of incessently grinding for ISO, versus ones that quit because they have run themselves out of content.

I think far more people are going to quit this forum from being sick of your incessent complaining. Not everything can be spoon fed to you. My patch has gone from level 15 to 63 strcitly during this last PVE and I didnt even put all my ISO in him. I moved punisher from 62 to 86 and leveled a few others. This is not a game for the ADD crowd, this is for someone that likes to play a game regularly and slowly see players getting stronger and stronger.

Unknown

itstime1234 wrote:

I think far more people are going to quit this forum from being sick of your incessent complaining. Not everything can be spoon fed to you. My patch has gone from level 15 to 63 strcitly during this last PVE and I didnt even put all my ISO in him. I moved punisher from 62 to 86 and leveled a few others. This is not a game for the ADD crowd, this is for someone that likes to play a game regularly and slowly see players getting stronger and stronger.

Going from 15 to 63 is insignificant. Only 25k in ISO. Now try to go from 63 to 100 during one PvE event. (hint: you can't with that amount) That same amount of PvE swag is going to get you about 10 levels for a character that is at level 100. Now multiply that by ten for the amount of 3 star characters you might have in your roster.

In the time it takes you to collect enough to level these characters, 10 more could be added in. That's not even touching the 4 star characters yet.

How can you have roster diversity if you can't bring these characters up to 'fighting shape' ?? We are just going to see a new set of 'same old same old' characters that everyone uses because they are going to gravitate towards the strongest ones because ISO is so scarce.

Again, I'm not asking for a lot here. Just give higher level players a way to earn more ISO at a quicker clip than someone who just started out last week. Our needs are far different than theirs.

Unknown

it's an old game design problem.

if all players have access to the same resources, and some choices are better than others, than all players will more than likely use those better choices.

no one is sitting there investing in bagman or classic hawkeye while there are GSBW, Thor, and Wolverine out there.

You could:

Make incremental scales for leveling (more than just 1*-4*) in order to make it 'cheaper' for crummier characters to level.
Make it just cheaper to fill up their ISO.
Greatly increase their power base.
Greatly nerf the 'favorite' characters.

etc etc etc

But doesnt that all sound stupid and confusing?

That's why we are stuck in this cycle of

1. new character
2. event that greatly buffs new character
3. dump your ISO into that character

Because it's 100000x easier for a game developer to make something NEW that fills a void or addresses an issue, rather than going back and changing old powers/texts/rules. It creates a chain effect that usually has so many possible permutations that someone will take advantage of something and create a new imbalance all over again.

Now that the game is in a 'set 2' mentality instead of a 'set 1', you will see great diversity in the form of new characters that are released. Unfortunately it will also have a power creep in order to keep the game interesting. Let's just hope D3 doesn't make it a CRAZY power creep!

Unknown

The game and the rewards it gives are structured in a way that makes covers relatively easy to obtain and ISO very difficult. I think it is their intention since they can say

"Here are the covers you need. You can gain them from progression, ranking, or daily rewards, even from standard boosters, so you don't need to level abilities with the HP you gain by playing the game. Now, if you also want to level your heroes quickly, here is the store where you can buy ISO for real money."

This is a f2p game so I understand this model. I just wish the ISO prices were reasonable. €90 for 52,000 is crazy. Beyond crazy. Even if €90 gave you enough ISO to fully level a 3* hero, it would still be crazy when you compare it to other AAA games you can purchase for an upfront price that are in development for 3-4 years and have badass graphics. Even Hearthstone which comes from Blizzard, is a f2p TCG and is a new game costs less. I have heard that with $150-200 and some play you can gain access to all the cards in the game so far. (Plus you don't have to play when you don't want to.)

When the event started I had 1-2K ISO. Now I have 17K. It may seem significant to a new player, but compared to the ISO I got from the Ares tournaments it is a small fraction. What has kept most players active is that heroes they had easy access to, like Wolverine, Thor, OBW are among the best in the game. Once the rebalancing of some of those heroes ends and if we see more events like the current, many players will move on to something else.

Unknown

If ISO was plentiful then there would be no need for a buy option. If people weren't buying ISO then I'm sure price/amount adjustments would be made so that it would become more enticing to the player.

itstime1234

Toxicadam wrote:

itstime1234 wrote:

I think far more people are going to quit this forum from being sick of your incessent complaining. Not everything can be spoon fed to you. My patch has gone from level 15 to 63 strcitly during this last PVE and I didnt even put all my ISO in him. I moved punisher from 62 to 86 and leveled a few others. This is not a game for the ADD crowd, this is for someone that likes to play a game regularly and slowly see players getting stronger and stronger.

Going from 15 to 63 is insignificant. Only 25k in ISO. Now try to go from 63 to 100 during one PvE event. (hint: you can't with that amount) That same amount of PvE swag is going to get you about 10 levels for a character that is at level 100. Now multiply that by ten for the amount of 3 star characters you might have in your roster.

In the time it takes you to collect enough to level these characters, 10 more could be added in. That's not even touching the 4 star characters yet.

How can you have roster diversity if you can't bring these characters up to 'fighting shape' ?? We are just going to see a new set of 'same old same old' characters that everyone uses because they are going to gravitate towards the strongest ones because ISO is so scarce.

Again, I'm not asking for a lot here. Just give higher level players a way to earn more ISO at a quicker clip than someone who just started out last week. Our needs are far different than theirs.

I took Patch from 15 to 63 plus Punisher from 63 to 86 as well as moving up a couple of my 100 lvl guys up a spot or 2. All this in the span of 3 days. Yes if I had enough ISO my punisher would be 125 but I have a nice round stable of fighters and over time more will enter. Not hard to level up just dont expect to do it for everyone inside of 1 month.

Unknown

The biggest reason for lack of roster diversity is tourney buffs. When Punisher came out, he was buffed in a subsequent tourney and I dumped a bunch of ISO into him leveling him up to the mid-50's. Same thing for when Ares came out, when Hulk came out, when OBW came out.

What it means is I have a huge roster of middling-level characters none of whom can compete at the top tiers. So I'm unfortunately stuck using Thorverine b/c they're level-capped as I slowly grind my other characters up. If they'd stop buffing characters for a while, I'd have time to focus on getting my BWGS from 101 to 115 (her cap) and IM40 from 95 to 128 (his cap).

But oh wait, LR just started. I have about 15 levels I need to get on my buffed Doom so he can reach his level 51 cap.

Katai

Right now, it's incredibly difficult to gain ISO-8 from regular play. Even the 500 ISO-8 rewards aren't that great considering the high difficulty of the PvE event right now (it's just too slow). All you can really do is grind PvP events. Even then, you're allowed one loss before you have to quit for healing. And if you're farming ISO-8, there's a good chance you don't have a backup team leveled up high enough to take down level 85 ** heroes.

Unknown

They should give every1 who logs in on valentines day 2000 hp to show how much they love us. Haha!

Unknown

itstime1234 wrote:

I took Patch from 15 to 63 plus Punisher from 63 to 86 as well as moving up a couple of my 100 lvl guys up a spot or 2. All this in the span of 3 days. Yes if I had enough ISO my punisher would be 125 but I have a nice round stable of fighters and over time more will enter. Not hard to level up just dont expect to do it for everyone inside of 1 month.

Let me guess. You have Spiderman with 5 in his blue and even 230 fights are a joke. For the rest of us who don't have him, winning in the current pve without boosts takes a miracle. A bad board setup can destroy you even if you are facing 130lv Maggia Muscle and Thugs. The net gain for me since the start of the tournament is ~15k and I played 95% of the rotations of all sub and main missions. A mid tier player without a decent Patch or OBW with 5 in Espionage would probably get even less with more work.