OK Devs, so you screwed up

Raffoon

Yes Thor needed a nerf. However, the nerf that you implemented was too much.

Do not let this sit. Balance changes seem to move at a glaical pace in this game, and that's a problem. Make a fix, and make it soon.

Act soon, and you'll get credit for being able to admit mistakes and fix them. Don't act, and you'll permanently damage to your reputation and players' trust in you.

Last we heard on this, Will was going to be "in the data" for a while. Well Will, when you pop your head out, take a look around and see what people have been saying. You've taken one of your best characters, not only in terms of power but in terms of fun, and you've made this character a ton less fun. Charge tiles are fun. Many less charge tiles = much less fun.

Arondite

Oh look, this again.


At this phase it feels like there's a few guys desperately pushing for a revert or compensation buff, a separate group of guys berating these anyone who feels the need was too much / liked old Thor.



Here's the facts.
She was in need of a nerf.
D3 took it a wee bit too far.
If they feel that she's now too weak, she'll be readjusted.
If not, she won't.
Either way, it'll be on their schedule rather than ours, and prodding them will have no effect (given they were dead set on doing it despite the outcry before it happened).

Eddiemon

Considering they are adding more characters that generate charge tiles, there may not be a problem with a character who scales off charge tiles.

ronin_san

I think she'll still end up getting play. But the nerf, at present, seems harsh. It is considered harsh because she doesn't have future character X in her group to put her back on the Meta map.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was an econometrics lesson. Force spending and grinding to get future characters, to make She-Thor viable again.

theshadeofopal

Arondite wrote:

Here's the facts.
She was in need of a nerf.
D3 took it a wee bit too far.
If they feel that she's now too weak, she'll be readjusted.
If not, she won't.
Either way, it'll be on their schedule rather than ours, and prodding them will have no effect (given they were dead set on doing it despite the outcry before it happened).

Looking at the indisputable overnerfs of the past, I wouldn't count on them being revisited, at least any time soon. I'm only talking about the characters that went from significantly over powered to barely playable. Some changes like cmags got a lot of flack initially but general opinion is he and a few others that were significantly overpowered are still decent;

loki and rags got a decent amount of attention but were also some of the first nerfs.

Loki- Someone with a little more knowledge about his original purple talk about this one? A little before my time but I know the change reduced him to a gimmick before getting mischief relatively recently.

Rags- Ap costs raised and ability effectiveness toned down from initial state leaving him with a moderately effective red poke/tile converter and a green you wish was unstoppable crash, all with substandard stats. How successful his redo is debatable, but it was clearly an attempt to bring him back to being someone usable outside of being grass fed in pves.

The less fortunate ones, the list i suspect thora will be on for a while due to devs statements about desirable 4* power levels.

Spidey- Stun switched from being insanely good to meh and protect tile strength reduced. Technically modified again with his healing becoming burst, but that was kind of incidental due to the creation of burst healing, even if it finally crippled what little effectiveness he had left.

Sentry- Green made much more expensive with an extra turn that more or less negated the moderate damage boost the countdown tiles themselves. A even more suicidal sacrifice that seemed ridiculous since battle plans upgrade made it roughly as effective as sentrys yellow without 12 teamup ap and much less prone to being instantly matched away into pointlessness. His red didn't take much of a knock but that was sort of an afterthought anyway. It's kind of hard to identify what his niche is nowadays as most highly scaled pves will easily survive a sac-rupture combo, sometimes even two.

2* wolvy- Not as heavy a nerf as the previous ones but in a meta where every two star player worth their salt has a ares or thor, wolvy is just an also ran at this point. His red was made much better and remains one of the best single target damage dealers among 2*s. His healing however, once a junior version of patches, is largely useless because his average health against the 50% threshold means it won't save you too many health packs in the long run and is unlikely. A green that was probably too strong in the strike tile department and was entirely too spammy, especially with pre nerf 2* thor, is now a middling strike tile and damage dealer. Still playable but can't really be recommended due to the ready availability of better two star covers.

KrazyKeylime

glad I'm still see this talked about. D3 has been very harsh with nerfs, especially when they go after two aspects of one skill. This is not acceptable, hurts the game, and loses trust with the community. where is the data on Sentry now? i have not seen him use in PVP at all in the last month. still think your nerf was a good balance? we seen what you did to some of the 3* and now you are doing the same thing to the 4*s and we are tired of you destroying the best parts of this game. It looks like you came out with doc oct. to try to counter sentry bombing and you might of if the ap required was half of what you scaled them. How did you think a 11/12 ap move would counter a 7 ap move? with boosts? Then he flopped and then it looks like you threw up you hands and said nerf Sentry to death. This kind of change is what we are clamoring to prevent. we seen its destructiveness it causes and we are dumbfounded that you can't.

It is nice to get to see some of their thinking behind their decisions, but they are overvaluing certain aspects like Health, situational abilities, and unreliable damage. Their treatment of 4*s is very inconsistent and for the newest direction i don't think it is good for the game to go down that road of making everyone weaker so their better balanced. This gives nothing for the players to strive for.
The match damage vs ability damage i think has gone to the extremes so that match damage is insignificant form of damage in the high levels, which should not be the case the 4 *s should be hitting for at least 500 per match 3 and should have a minimum of 50 in their lowest color. going to end post here was getting too of topic just going to make a new one.brainstorming just went critical.

Unknown

LadyThor is massively OP, even after the nerfs. She single-handedly mulched my team of Patch, Daken, and LT when they were all buffed for the PVP. Thats powerful enough.

Arondite

Vertigozooropa wrote:

LadyThor is massively OP, even after the nerfs. She single-handedly mulched my team of Patch, Daken, and LT when they were all buffed for the PVP. Thats powerful enough.

Thoress is still noticably strong and still has her merits. In addition to that, with a lucky cascade or if the game goes on after 2 power surges or 2 smites she can roll whole squads, but she's not by any means "massively OP". She's probably close to what a 4 star should be, perhaps a butt-hair under.

Raffoon

Vertigozooropa wrote:

LadyThor is massively OP, even after the nerfs. She single-handedly mulched my team of Patch, Daken, and LT when they were all buffed for the PVP. Thats powerful enough.

Sentry could do the same in his current state. Guess that makes him OP too?

Unknown

Question to wager on: Who will get buffed sooner: Baglady or Thorless?

elvy75

Vertigozooropa wrote:

LadyThor is massively OP, even after the nerfs. She single-handedly mulched my team of Patch, Daken, and LT when they were all buffed for the PVP. Thats powerful enough.

you were very unlucky to have your team wiped like that. Even prenerf she was not great on defense, it was offense that made her OP, but now to do the same on offense she needs either 18 blue 10 red or 9 blue 20 red, which is not something you easily collect. Lucky cascades in defense can make any team go down, and that is what i believe happened to you.

simonsez

Vertigozooropa wrote:

LadyThor is massively OP, even after the nerfs. She single-handedly mulched my team of Patch, Daken, and LT when they were all buffed for the PVP. Thats powerful enough.

Were you trying to lose? She couldn't even do this before she got kneecapped. Given her current damage output, even if you WERE trying to lose, I have no idea how she could run through all the health and regen of that formation. Seems totally impossible.

Unknown

I'm on the "over nerfed" wagon. Her initial release was probably part of premature plans on the new meta. Instead they'll push a 3* generator on us and everybody buys hp and iso to compensate for the nerf and make GoT usable in pvp again

Unknown

Let's be real. 4Thor went from being the best, to not even a thought in my roster lineup anymore.

Bowgentle

Switchman wrote:

Let's be real. 4Thor went from being the best, to not even a thought in my roster lineup anymore.

I think I saw more people playing Professor X than 4Thor above 750 in the 3 PVPs this week.

I have been using my own Thor exclusively in Deadpool's Daily.

Nuff said.

Unknown

Switchman wrote:

Let's be real. 4Thor went from being the best, to not even a thought in my roster lineup anymore.

Lol yeah she also went from highly desired cover for me to ehh whatever...and in pvp having to face her, she went from oh **** to ehh not a big deal.

Unknown

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Switchman wrote:

Let's be real. 4Thor went from being the best, to not even a thought in my roster lineup anymore.

Lol yeah she also went from highly desired cover for me to ehh whatever...and in pvp having to face her, she went from oh **** to ehh not a big deal.

4Thor went back to the cave to never be used again, same as Sentry, a maxed 3* for nothing
CMags is the only acceptable example of balance they attempted but this one was too much

I really dont understand their goals
- "we will release new 4*!"
- "we will nerf one of the 2 usable 4*!"
- "we will boost 3* that will surpass by far any of your 4*" (Hello LThor with 18k hp)!

My only question will to the Devs would be "Do you have any idea of what you are doing?" It doesnt seem so

GothicKratos

Agent Alex wrote:

CMags is the only acceptable example of balance they attempted but this one was too much

This is massive hyperbole.

The only "overboard" balances before were Sentry (and I would argue he's still usable, just nothing compared to what he once was), Spider-Man, and Ragnarok and they were single-handedly warping the meta, so maybe they needed a sand box time out? Personally, I'd rather have them go "you know, we don't know what do to with this guys so we're going to neuter them for the time being" then just ignore it and let them run wild.

Now granted, in a perfect world, we'd see them revisit them in a timely fashion (say a month or so) to actually fix them, but we don't live in a perfect world. In a perfect world you don't have corporate deadlines. In a perfect world you don't have to worry about the mouths you have to feed. In a perfect world you could stop the treadmill and slow down the product line to fix the problem - but in the real world you just push it out and fix it later. Like it or not that's how it goes.

MarvelMan

GothicKratos wrote:

Personally, I'd rather have them go "you know, we don't know what do to with this guys so we're going to neuter them for the time being" then just ignore it and let them run wild.

Except that that is not what they say, nor is it what their actions indicate. Spidey hasnt seen use from my roster, unless forced, in quite a while. Neither has Sentry. I think both needed some work, and better to neuter and sort out than run wild. But that requires that they acknowledge that it was over done and will get some attention (doesnt even have to have a timeline).

And Id add in Hood's yellow. Decent damage, but a horrible skill that is almost unanimously left at level 3 now. It should be GOOD (Im not saying great) damage if you have to leave a squishy out front. And Im sure there are others.

rednailz

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Switchman wrote:

Let's be real. 4Thor went from being the best, to not even a thought in my roster lineup anymore.

Lol yeah she also went from highly desired cover for me to ehh whatever...and in pvp having to face her, she went from oh **** to ehh not a big deal.

Facing her was never a big deal in PVP. It was the combo of her and xforce. Since you had to take out Xforce first, she would maybe be charged up by the time you got to her - maybe.

She is the same on D in PVP as she always was to me...she's 15K HP, and whenver I skip her, it's for that reason, not becuase I fear her. I'd rather take on her over devil dino - since he takes nothing to use his red or green and he'll keep picking at you.

rednailz

MarvelMan wrote:

GothicKratos wrote:

Personally, I'd rather have them go "you know, we don't know what do to with this guys so we're going to neuter them for the time being" then just ignore it and let them run wild.

Except that that is not what they say, nor is it what their actions indicate. Spidey hasnt seen use from my roster, unless forced, in quite a while. Neither has Sentry. I think both needed some work, and better to neuter and sort out than run wild. But that requires that they acknowledge that it was over done and will get some attention (doesnt even have to have a timeline).

And Id add in Hood's yellow. Decent damage, but a horrible skill that is almost unanimously left at level 3 now. It should be GOOD (Im not saying great) damage if you have to leave a squishy out front. And Im sure there are others.

Left at 3? Not sure where you're getting that. Since Sentry Nerf almost everyone respecked and leaves black at 3. Very foolish to leave his yeallow at 3. Black doesn't do much more from 3 to 5, and his yellow can hit hard - especially when he's boosted. If memoery serves with a couple strike tiles a boosted Hood yellow will hit for 8K. I don't care if it ends the turn. It ends whoever I use it on.