MPQ Community Video - March - Character Updates

Demiurge_Will

Colognoisseur wrote:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

I hope you'll give the changed Magneto some playtime before making a final decision about what you think of the change. He's involved in different combos than he used to be, but most of our testers feel that the change ends up making him a tiny bit stronger overall, outside of the loss of the infinite turn combo with Mystique.

Would these be the same testers who failed to realize what an overpowered character Iron Fist was before release?
Would these be the same testers who think the new Ragnarok is an improvement?
Would these be the same testers that thought rolling out team-ups without a delete button was a good idea?
Would these be the same testers who saw no need to add a cooldown timer to shields?

You might understand why I have little faith in the opinion of these testers when they can't get the obvious things right.

Please don't evaluate the skill of the test team of any game, Marvel Puzzle Quest or any other, by the quality of the resulting game. They don't determine what we work on in what order, which is what three of your four complaints are about. (The fourth, the Ragnarok complaint, is about a character rework involving a third ability you haven't played with yet.)

Direct your frustration this way, please, toward my face, not toward them.

Unknown

I'm curious to know what the team thinks about a PTR to test these changes rather than having to act on hypothetical data and past experience? Seems like a lot of problem and misunderstandings could be worked out by releasing test versions of the changes before taking them to live servers.

scottee

To anyone complaining about MNM blue, his red has always been much better. Magnetic Flux has always been my favorite 2* ability. Much more damage and generates a ton of AP. And has a decent chance to blow up whatever you were trying to remove anyways.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

morph3us wrote:

We appreciate that you've taken the time to address some of our concerns.

One follow up question, Will, if you're around, please? You spoke at length about the cost of powers that cause tile conversion, with regards to Mystique, and specifically about a tile conversion power curve. Would you be able to elaborate on where Iron Fist's black generation fits that tile conversion power curve?

I might not be understanding the question correctly - let me know if you were asking something different.

Iron Fist of K'un-Lun was, before the upcoming change, doing the amount of tile conversion we'd expect if it cost 7 AP and was on a character with Iron Fist's health. It wasn't in the right spot in either our old thinking about tile conversion or our new thinking.

When we re-evaluated the power of tile conversion, our curve didn't change much when we looked at abilities like Iron Fist of K'un-Lun that change one color to one other color at the scale that that ability does (it was a little off starting around 8 or 9 tiles converted, but not enough to be a big problem in this case). Our old thinking seems to have been pretty good in this case, but the original power of the ability didn't fit that thinking.

That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense here. You're saying that it'd be okay to convert 9 tiles at 7 AP at Iron Fist's health. Mystique has less health than Iron Fist, so she has to get at least get that kind of ratio, but she needs 10 blue to convert a total of 9 tiles into two other colors (not nearly as useful as all to one color). In fact, if you scale back Infilitration you'd get 5 AP should only be able to convert 4-5 of one tile and even that is probably overpowered (converting two colors at double the cost is not nearly as useful as converting one color twice). I'm of the opinion that the purple is still too good, but I really don't understand how you can come to the conclusion that 7 AP was an adequate number for a color conversion ability that's pretty much better than any other in the game. Unless the point is that 'does damage at 12 or more black AP' is meant to be a drawback? Do you really think people will be running a premium black generator and just never use anyone with a strong black?

Also, is the requirement to sell your character for refund a limitation of the game, or is it by design? It seems like losing that character for good is a pretty considerable hit to get your HP back. In general I'd think people have characters in various completed state so you're losing whatever covers you earned from placement/progression and you're also losing the character. I'd think just losing the covers you earn should be enough, something like replace the character with a 1/0/0 level 40 guy. I think a lot of people buy covers to remain competitive since if you don't use the latest broken combo you tend to get left behind, but that doesn't mean they want to trash the character after it is balanced.

Colognoisseur

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Colognoisseur wrote:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

I hope you'll give the changed Magneto some playtime before making a final decision about what you think of the change. He's involved in different combos than he used to be, but most of our testers feel that the change ends up making him a tiny bit stronger overall, outside of the loss of the infinite turn combo with Mystique.

Would these be the same testers who failed to realize what an overpowered character Iron Fist was before release?
Would these be the same testers who think the new Ragnarok is an improvement?
Would these be the same testers that thought rolling out team-ups without a delete button was a good idea?
Would these be the same testers who saw no need to add a cooldown timer to shields?

You might understand why I have little faith in the opinion of these testers when they can't get the obvious things right.

Please don't evaluate the skill of the test team of any game, Marvel Puzzle Quest or any other, by the quality of the resulting game. They don't determine what we work on in what order, which is what three of your four complaints are about. (The fourth, the Ragnarok complaint, is about a character rework involving a third ability you haven't played with yet.)

Direct your frustration this way, please, toward my face, not toward them.

Okay fair enough.
You, Will, do not know how to play the game the way the players who are playing your game play it. All of the examples I cited are things that you let slip through because you do not play the game they way we do.
I don't expect you to. Playing your game on your free time is like a chef eating at his own restaurant. But there is a serious disconnect between what the small group of players at the higher level experience and what you, Will, try to pass off as something which is an improvement. Especially when as soon as it is announced there is more than enough feedback to let you know something might not go as you expected.
As to Ragnarok you are right I sure haven't played with him but I played against him in The Hunt at levels over 250 and all I know is old Ragnarok was a wrecking ball if he got his red and green going. The new Ragnarok is not a threat in PvE because there is nothing to get going which is a threat. He is just a big meat shield. My opinion may not be fully formed by not playing with him but it isn't without some experience with the character.
Once again talking with a group of high level players who you like, Will, might be something worth looking in to.

Unknown

Colognoisseur wrote:

As to Ragnarok you are right I sure haven't played with him but I played against him in The Hunt at levels over 250 and all I know is old Ragnarok was a wrecking ball if he got his red and green going. The new Ragnarok is not a threat in PvE because there is nothing to get going which is a threat. He is just a big meat shield. My opinion may not be fully formed by not playing with him but it isn't without some experience with the character.
Once again talking with a group of high level players who you like, Will, might be something worth looking in to.

I thought the point of the Ragnarok change was to NOT make him a wrecking ball since his red/green just leads to massive cascade in a long game which leads to easy domination as long as there is anyone else on the team that can make use of the APs. Of course he's significantly weaker after the change when facing him but I think the top DA + friends line up (Ares, Daken, Juggernaut, Ragnarok) at grossly overpowered are high levels and we really shouldn't be saying, 'Ragnarok used to bash my face almost as well as a level 300 Juggernaut, now that he doesn't do that'. That's not a fun standard to play against. Now I wouldn't mind if they made Ragnarok the equivalent of Gorgon, but Gorgon is not playable by players for a reason so if they did that you'd need two versions of Ragnarok.

KrazyKeylime

you still haven't addressed the extreme cost/rarity of 4*s if they are just going to be slightly better then 3 *. do you not plan to make 5*s ever? not even as a long term project? or are you just hoping to make enough bad changes so that this game tanks and never gets to that point?

mags1587

I just want to echo what a couple of posters have already said -- your view of what 4* characters power levels should be does not seem to line up with how difficult you make it to obtain their covers. It takes a significant effort in PvP and PvE to obtain a 4* character cover and the HP and ISO cost to level these characters is also significant.

What you're saying about 4* power levels makes me a lot less interested in collecting and leveling these characters. Since if I'm reading you correctly, 3* characters will be nearly as good and a lot easier to obtain and level. Makes me kind of glad I balked at the ISO cost to level X-Force and GT past 220 and stopped them there, to be honest.

KrazyKeylime

Also while you are here, i hate true healing didn't like it when you implemented and you butchered the game to fix, it directly affected the way i play the game and specifically reduced how long i play the game. Not a fan i don't want to play at your speed i want to play at mine.

In one of the last posts you said that you are choosing not to spend time reworking under powered characters, let me tell you that some of the reworks have been some of your best work. many of these under powered characters are taking up roster slots that you are charging me for and if you are just going to leave them knowingly broken why should i bother to have them on my roster?

I didn't like the nerfs you put on 4 thor, the implications that 4s are fair game for nerfs, and that 4* are just suppose to be tanky 3*. None of these things does make me want to spend money on this game.
i have unload a bit on you, but I have to say at least you are getting better cause the infinite turn combos now takes 2+ characters not just 1.

Demiurge_Will

Phantron wrote:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

morph3us wrote:

We appreciate that you've taken the time to address some of our concerns.

One follow up question, Will, if you're around, please? You spoke at length about the cost of powers that cause tile conversion, with regards to Mystique, and specifically about a tile conversion power curve. Would you be able to elaborate on where Iron Fist's black generation fits that tile conversion power curve?

I might not be understanding the question correctly - let me know if you were asking something different.

Iron Fist of K'un-Lun was, before the upcoming change, doing the amount of tile conversion we'd expect if it cost 7 AP and was on a character with Iron Fist's health. It wasn't in the right spot in either our old thinking about tile conversion or our new thinking.

When we re-evaluated the power of tile conversion, our curve didn't change much when we looked at abilities like Iron Fist of K'un-Lun that change one color to one other color at the scale that that ability does (it was a little off starting around 8 or 9 tiles converted, but not enough to be a big problem in this case). Our old thinking seems to have been pretty good in this case, but the original power of the ability didn't fit that thinking.

That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense here. You're saying that it'd be okay to convert 9 tiles at 7 AP at Iron Fist's health.

The way that "it was a little off" parenthetical was worded was confusing and mistaken. Made a edit to try to make it more accurate.

What I was trying to say is that it'd be okay to convert 5 tiles at 7 AP at Iron Fist's health at level 1 of the ability.

Phantron wrote:

Mystique has less health than Iron Fist, so she has to get at least get that kind of ratio, but she needs 10 blue to convert a total of 9 tiles into two other colors (not nearly as useful as all to one color). In fact, if you scale back Infilitration you'd get 5 AP should only be able to convert 4-5 of one tile and even that is probably overpowered (converting two colors at double the cost is not nearly as useful as converting one color twice). I'm of the opinion that the purple is still too good, but I really don't understand how you can come to the conclusion that 7 AP was an adequate number for a color conversion ability that's pretty much better than any other in the game. Unless the point is that 'does damage at 12 or more black AP' is meant to be a drawback? Do you really think people will be running a premium black generator and just never use anyone with a strong black?

This is an excellent analysis and it sounds like we've missed something, thank you. I'm going to go back and take a closer look at how we arrived at those numbers. No, the 12+ Black AP clause isn't costed as a drawback.

Phantron wrote:

Also, is the requirement to sell your character for refund a limitation of the game, or is it by design? It seems like losing that character for good is a pretty considerable hit to get your HP back. In general I'd think people have characters in various completed state so you're losing whatever covers you earned from placement/progression and you're also losing the character. I'd think just losing the covers you earn should be enough, something like replace the character with a 1/0/0 level 40 guy. I think a lot of people buy covers to remain competitive since if you don't use the latest broken combo you tend to get left behind, but that doesn't mean they want to trash the character after it is balanced.

It's related to limitations of the game (of software development, really): altering people's save data is high-risk (if something goes wrong and the save is lost, or changed in an unexpected way, that's a _really_ terrible experience for players) and difficult to test (everyone's save is different, so knowing the procedure works on a bunch of test saves doesn't make us absolutely sure nothing will go wrong in real life). If instead Customer Support manually uses the gifting system that goes through the same well-trodden code paths as event rewards do, it's a lot safer.

That said, I'm really appreciating the feedback on the buyback offer from you and others. I want to find a way for balance changes to feel as good as possible whether we get them exactly right the first time or not, because we've seen repeatedly that in the long run, they improve people's enjoyment of the game.

daveomite

Colognoisseur wrote:

Once again talking with a group of high level players who you like, Will, might be something worth looking in to.

Wholeheartedly agree. It seems to me that it should be ANY business should do first and foremost, just as my own company strives to do... to monitor client usage, address client issues quickly, and making updates that actually solve issues, rather than create even more of them.

Just as Colog said:

1. To release shields to the public, but later decide it was too much... introducing broken cooldowns made no sense. On top of that, how long did it actually take to get a screen showing how long those "cooldowns" would last?

2. To release characters into the wild without actually thoroughly testing them... and I mean, in an environment where you can get a true idea of how 1: new players would use them, 2: how transistional players would use them, and 3: now long term, top tier players would use them. Had you have done any of that, at least 90% of the said issues with characters such as Spidey, CMags, Sentry, Hood, 4Thor, Iron First, Professor X, etc, etc, would have actually been realized BEFORE public consumption.

3. Agreed with Colog regarding Rags... might be a new "power", but it made a bad character worse. I always found it odd that in PVE, you guys managed to make Rags look like a god - especially a 395 one. But, now, he's a meat shield. I didn't use him before, I certainly won't use him now.

4. To constantly make playtimes harder and harder to manage and maintain. You seriously have purposely built a game to do nothing but wear most people out, and to drain pocketbooks. All of which induces hacking the game, like so many have apparently done, as they simply cannot or will not afford what is being asked of them. Don't agree? Fine. Think of it like this... a PvE, whoever the "required" character is... almost guaranteed, there will be a concurrent PvP where that same character is "featured". How would that NOT tax a players overall ability to keep that character healed enough to actually compete in both events? Hence, more health packs used - and more probably bought if they intend on placing well. Oh wait... I seem to remember developers saying we needed to "choose" what to play.... hence another question, why should I or any player ever have to choose?

5. To the minds that thought said "shield cooldown" would prevent high scores... ha.

6. Again regarding shields... an 8hr timer on a 3hr shield. I can understand you may have sold it as a way to "prevent high scores as shield hoping is unfun" - but that simply was not, and obviously is not true in any sense. A lot of players actually have FUN using the tools provided to them in the most efficient ways possible, and strive to perform as good as they can. Yet now, depending on when you climb and/or use your first shield... there is a strong chance that you will have to use 2 if not all 3 shields, if you intend on actually trying to place in the top 5. That is, hands down, so much more mind-blowingly expensive than it used to be it's ridiculous.

7. Connection issues, connection issues, and wait... even more connection issues. And always at the absolute worst possible moments.

8. Unannounced sales that always seem to happen the exact day after people make any purchase.

9. Constant nerfs of characters that you constantly promote, push people to get in seasons and in PvE's... knowing full well many players will spend hard earned money leveling these characters (buying covers or ISO) - then to later completely mangle said character to a point that all that money, time and effort was completely wasted... meaning, zero accomplishment.

10. Lastly - let's get this clear and out in the open... YOU, D3/Demiurge want so called "roster diversity" - the players don't all agree with that sentiment. SO WHAT if everyone uses 4Thor/XF, XF/Fist, MNMags/CStorm or even the older sets of Sentry/Hood or cMags/Patch, etc? The purpose of the game is the evolution of the player, how that player goes from being a new player to a top tier one. It is of your own making, your own marketing, planning, promotion and design that these "power groups" even existed. 4Thor is a 4*, she's supposed to be tough. Not to mention, 4* are incredibly expensive to level. With your mentality and thought process behind nerfing so called "OP" characters - maybe the automotive industry should look at nerfing cars like the Bugatti line because they are just too "OP". They are simply too powerful and too fast. Let's just dumb them down and make their top speeds 75 miles per hour to make everyone happy... right? Ha. Try it, and we'll see how well that goes over.

Obviously, I too question many of the motives of the developers with this game. It is without a doubt, a massive time suck if you want to play both PvP and PvE well, and definitely one pulling at people's pocketbooks. Yes, I am aware there are those that play and succeed with free accounts as well, but there is also a large amount of players who do invest, even if it's just $20.

Just like when Shards came out. That was billed on popups and on this very form as a "test" - just so happens, that test never went away.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, and love the concept behind it. I create the HP Suck graphics in fun to hopefully make some people laugh a little at the game. I just don't agree with the direction and execution at all times. If the developers want players like us to BELIEVE them, and to have FAITH in them - give us a reason too, and stop yanking our chains.

lukewin

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Also, is the requirement to sell your character for refund a limitation of the game, or is it by design? It seems like losing that character for good is a pretty considerable hit to get your HP back. In general I'd think people have characters in various completed state so you're losing whatever covers you earned from placement/progression and you're also losing the character. I'd think just losing the covers you earn should be enough, something like replace the character with a 1/0/0 level 40 guy. I think a lot of people buy covers to remain competitive since if you don't use the latest broken combo you tend to get left behind, but that doesn't mean they want to trash the character after it is balanced.

It's related to limitations of the game (of software development, really): altering people's save data is high-risk (if something goes wrong and the save is lost, or changed in an unexpected way, that's a _really_ terrible experience for players) and difficult to test (everyone's save is different, so knowing the procedure works on a bunch of test saves doesn't make us absolutely sure nothing will go wrong in real life). If instead Customer Support manually uses the gifting system that goes through the same well-trodden code paths as event rewards do, it's a lot safer.

That said, I'm really appreciating the feedback on the buyback offer from you and others. I want to find a way for balance changes to feel as good as possible whether we get them exactly right the first time or not, because we've seen repeatedly that in the long run, they improve people's enjoyment of the game.

Could you not just give people enough HP/ISO, on top, for them to re-purchase 1 cover or 1/1/1, if that's what they wanted to scale back to? So if they have to sell off the character, which is easier, give them enough HP/ISO to get them back to the build that they want him at?

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

What I was trying to say is that it'd be okay to convert 5 tiles at 7 AP at Iron Fist's health at level 1 of the ability.

This is the part I find confusing. Iron Fist's purple cost 5 AP prior to the change and it still costs 5 AP after the change. It receives no discount on AP cost for leveling up whether before or after the change. Did you guys somehow thought the ability cost 7 AP instead of 5 AP? For 7 AP I can see how all the argument would make sense, but it costs 5!

Thanks for letting us know that there's a system limitation that leads to why the refund are being, in my opinion, not very fair. Can you consider at least gifting with the user with a single cover of the character they're getting rid of? I know most people like to collect and especially with DDQ around you don't want to be stuck with no cover of a particular character because it can take a long time to get him again.

Demiurge_Will

KrazyKeylime wrote:

you still haven't addressed the extreme cost/rarity of 4*s if they are just going to be slightly better then 3 *.

4-stars can attain about 160% of the health and deal roughly 160% of the damage as 3-stars can. If you wanted to turn health and damage into a single measure of effectiveness, you'd multiply them together - one 4-star at max level is about 2.6 times as effective as a 3-star at max level. That's less than the roughly 170% more health/damage and 3x the overall effectiveness that 3-stars can get relative to 2-stars, but I think it qualifies as more than just slightly better.

Unknown

lukewin wrote:

Could you not just give people enough HP/ISO, on top, for them to re-purchase 1 cover or 1/1/1, if that's what they wanted to scale back to? So if they have to sell off the character, which is easier, give them enough HP/ISO to get them back to the build that they want him at?

You can't repurchase a character's cover after you sold him because the character is gone. Currently the odds in heroic list Iron Fist (or any other 3*) at 0.7%, so you'd need about 43000 HP worth of tokens to expect to pull one of his cover and obviously that wouldn't work.

But can't they gift you a 3* cover of the character you just sold so that you're at least not missing that slot for purposes of DDQ or future events? Sure ideally I'd like to have something that just exactly unwinds my HP purchases but I'm willing to take some losses, but I'm not quite sure if I'm willing to lose the whole character.

lukewin

I feel bad for the devs because it's tough to have a new character released every 2 weeks. Unless it was their decision, to go with that pace, then I don't feel bad. Because I don't know, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

That pace doesn't allow enough time for every character to be a Luke Cage, Iron Fist or Cyclops. You end up with a Beast, Doc Ock, etc. The new character every 2 weeks is probably based on wanting to keep players interested / bring in the $$, but every 2 weeks means you're gonna possibly release OP characters or duds. OP characters will keep players interested, bring in the $$, but mean that they gotta be nerfed, which'll take away time from making sure the next characters are balanced. When they're nerfed, the interest and $$ go right back out the door. If you release a dud, the players aren't interested and the $$ doesn't come in.

So you're caught between a rock and a hard place, solely because you have to take time away from new characters, to fix old ones, possibly leading to having to repeat the same cycle over and over. And while you're nerfing these characters, no time is allotted to fix the underpowered ones / duds, because the impact on the game requires nerfs before buffs.

The root cause, seems to be the pace at which these characters are released. It almost seems like simple logic, which I am a fan of (also a fan of complex logic), which is why I play the game. If the character release schedule is determined by the devs, please consider slowing it down. If it isn't, please try to present this argument to those that do determine it (although, if this is the case, I assume you already have, and failed).

An analogy, that might help. There are already a bunch of holes (characters in need of nerfs/buffs) that need to be plugged in a sinking ship. Every new character is potentially another hole. You're spending a bunch of time plugging holes, but they're showing up faster than you can plug them, and if you continue on the course, the ship's gonna sink, with all of us on it. No one wants this ship to sink, we all want to play our Match 3 game with Marvel characters. Please let us do it.

scottee

Rags was stronger than people thought. His main problem was that he capped at 140. I knew changes were coming, and so have had a medium leveled Rags for a while. If they had kept red/green the same, and added literally any 3rd power (tiny arms?), I would have immediately maxed him to 166.

That said, his new self interaction looks interesting, and no one's going to really know how good or bad it is until we try it, but his ability chain feels like it's very individual. It looks like his abilities work with his abilities, but no one else's. The problem with that is that he's not strong enough to be a carry. He's somewhere between a carry and a support, doing neither well. In basketball, that's called a tweener. Too short to be an effective powerforward, but too slow to guard other small forwards.

lukewin

Phantron wrote:

lukewin wrote:

Could you not just give people enough HP/ISO, on top, for them to re-purchase 1 cover or 1/1/1, if that's what they wanted to scale back to? So if they have to sell off the character, which is easier, give them enough HP/ISO to get them back to the build that they want him at?

You can't repurchase a character's cover after you sold him because the character is gone. Currently the odds in heroic list Iron Fist (or any other 3*) at 0.7%, so you'd need about 43000 HP worth of tokens to expect to pull one of his cover and obviously that wouldn't work.

But can't they gift you a 3* cover of the character you just sold so that you're at least not missing that slot for purposes of DDQ or future events? Sure ideally I'd like to have something that just exactly unwinds my HP purchases but I'm willing to take some losses, but I'm not quite sure if I'm willing to lose the whole character.

You are 100% correct, totally forgot you need a cover to buy a cover. My inexperience because of my unwillingness to buy covers, is really showing. How about they just develop a token for the character they wanna give? IF green token purple token, black token 100% drop rate. Only available to be dished out by CS. I think that would work.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

KrazyKeylime wrote:

you still haven't addressed the extreme cost/rarity of 4*s if they are just going to be slightly better then 3 *.

4-stars can attain about 160% of the health and deal roughly 160% of the damage as 3-stars can. If you wanted to turn health and damage into a single measure of effectiveness, you'd multiply them together - one 4-star at max level is about 2.6 times as effective as a 3-star at max level. That's less than the roughly 170% more health/damage and 3x the overall effectiveness that 3-stars can get relative to 2-stars, but I think it qualifies as more than just slightly better.

160% of the damage? LMFAO.

Your post nerf 4thor combo does almost exactly the same damage on a 19 ap combo starting with a stun into doing single target damage as mystique! If you think FIVE charge tiles are worth over 4k in missing damage you are insane.

Before i get told about all that extra health being all important (it isn't because of how high dmg is compared to health) how about a higher health 3 star. How is the new 4thor shaping up vs luke cage? Still not seeing that 60 percent damage advantage. If i wasnt on my phone rather than pc i could start rattling off all the 3* to 4* conparisons that make that claim ridiculous. Is post nerf 4thor even doing 60 percent more damage than 3* thor? Cause his yellow is WAY better acceleration than 5 charged tiles... or 8 post smite.

Dont even get me started on elektra.....

Demiurge_Will

Phantron wrote:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

What I was trying to say is that it'd be okay to convert 5 tiles at 7 AP at Iron Fist's health at level 1 of the ability.

This is the part I find confusing. Iron Fist's purple cost 5 AP prior to the change and it still costs 5 AP after the change. It receives no discount on AP cost for leveling up whether before or after the change. Did you guys somehow thought the ability cost 7 AP instead of 5 AP? For 7 AP I can see how all the argument would make sense, but it costs 5!

Sorry that wasn't clear: I'm not trying to explain how the mistake was made (that's a much longer story with a bunch of errors and oversights aligning, with a bunch of different people involved and no obvious single cause, the way most bugs get into the live game). I was trying to answer a question about what our ability costing guidelines look like for tile conversion - they say that the old version of Iron Fist's ability costed two too few AP for the effect it had at level 1.

Phantron wrote:

Thanks for letting us know that there's a system limitation that leads to why the refund are being, in my opinion, not very fair. Can you consider at least gifting with the user with a single cover of the character they're getting rid of? I know most people like to collect and especially with DDQ around you don't want to be stuck with no cover of a particular character because it can take a long time to get him again.

I'm hearing a couple versions of this suggestion and it makes a lot of sense to me. I'll pass it along to the folks involved in arranging how the buyback works, and if it doesn't work out to do that this time, we'll try to incorporate that feedback into how we handle future rebalancing.