A new outlook on MPQ and it's positive.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Here is why I also agree with his speculation. If Thor was the only character capable of making charged tiles now and forever, there would be no reason to nerf blue, in fact red would have probably taking the bigger hit because red was doing to much damage. But Phaser it's 12K for 19AP that's only 630 per AP that's not terrible she's a 4*, your right, but its not really a true 19AP. 19AP implies 6.3 matches. This was more like 2-3 matches due to charged tiles and boosts, which if 3 per match is really 12K for 9 AP which is more like 1333 dmg per AP, that's a bit high. Now if 4hor however is no longer the only charged tile creator, well now the need for blue to be the main creator of her charged tiles is not as needed, if Rags is the start and there comes Gambit or the like that can also create charged tiles, when now 4hor being able to create 12 becomes overpowered and that is where I think they are going and guess what?...........

All this sound perfectly fare and square. Logic, really, it does make perfect sense.

Sadly it's been six month now that 4thor is out. Six full month, more than enough time to notice that the character was imbalanced to start with, more than enough time to see new character with charged tile appear, more than enough time to predict what will happen if more characters with charged tile appear.
If we would have been talking about a Punisher or even a Patch-level character this all could have been understandable, but 4thor is a very specific case. She has entirely changed the game. For 6 month, she reigned supreme with XForce and redefined the entire meta of the game. She was the most sought after character (XForce being here since the beginning his covers were easier to get), the most coveted one.
Reactions to this change are not only understandable, they were predictable and entirely justified. Why ?

In any other game, this kind of balancing is part of the life-cycle of the game, but MPQ is built on very specific model. A model which forces the player to invest ginormous amount of time and/or money to actually achieve an ever-moving goal. Not only was 4thor very desirable, she was also incredibly difficult to get. In a game that doesn't have a shred of an endgame, managing to get this character was a milestone of the highest importance, the crown of a brilliant carrier. The fun was in getting her and having her. Which brings us to...

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Hopefully this answers some questions. If I can leave you with anything it's this: These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun, Iron Fist is still fun, Thor is still fun.

Who cares if those characters are still fun ?
Who plays MPQ for the fun of it ?
The entire game is built as a Skinner box, we all are mices running in our wheel, and what keeps us going is the carrots we can get and stockpile if we run well enough. Is playing a PvE fun, really ? Having to play every 8h (if not less) for an entire week without missing a heartbeat is fun ? Having to compete tooth and nail in PvP against other players and carefully aiming at climbing the pile by stepping on others head with a military precision is fun ? Having to play over and over and over and over again the same content with the same story is fun ?
There are only two genuinely fun part in the entire game : the Deadpool daily quest and the prologue. And that's about it. The gauntlet is way too hard to be qualified as fun.
Oh sure, you can play for the fun of it only. Relaxed, playing only with the characters you want, in the event you want and exactly when you want. But that means you won't get all the shiny toys. Only a bare minimum of ISO, HP and covers and then you see the others (in PvE or PvP) and all the nice things they got and you don't have and pof ! the fun evaporates.

So, no I'm sorry, we don't play the game to have fun with the characters. And it's a shame. I would really really love to play around and build exotic or improbable teams and see what gives. That would be super fun !
But I can't, I'm not authorized to do that if I want to get my dose of carrots. I need to be serious and align the best possible team because I need to win my matches. A loss means that not only do I get 0 carrots, but on top of that I need to invest some of my own resources (healthpack) to have a chance to keep trying to win my necessary veggie. A double loss, a triple loss even considering the other mices did win something during that time.

And who built this environment ? That would be you, devs. So please don't you dare talk about fun, that would be a highly hypocritical stance. Or act according to your ideas, and transform MPQ in such a fashion that everything looks like Deadpool's daily or the prologue. In the meantime, we all live in this imperfect world and you better not take my hard-earned shiny big carrot and exchange them sneakily for a mundane one, especially without a warning.
Because that makes me angry. That makes me want to do the only other thing I can do besides running in my wheel: leaving and never looking back.

simonsez

Trisul wrote:

No way it's 99%.

I could've said "vast majority", but I liked the juxtaposition I created between the 1% and 99%. Sue me for taking literary license. Maybe we're reading things differently, but it looks to me like even the chorus who spend every day crying "nerf!", are saying that the GT nerf seems to go too far.

Seasick Pirate

Phaserhawk wrote:

That means they do care about the game, they do care about the longevity and they want everyone to have a good experience. Yes that means we will be taking one on the chin here and there but it really is for the betterment of the game.

The only changes that will impact me from this are the Mystique and MN.Mags changes. I'll admit I use their combo to help me through the last few nodes of that last Gauntlet. I'm not particularly disgruntled over these changes but can understand why they would be (I learned back before the True Healing update that buying covers is a dangerous gamble). It is annoying that we instantly saw what was wrong with Professor X and Iron Fist when we saw their abilities. That leads us to believe they either don't care enough think things through or play test anything.

Personally, why I think there is so much outrage over this, is because this was the straw that broke the camel's back. There are so many other issues that the community has been struggling with - either getting a response or a solution - for so long. We got the runaround with roster slot prices for at least six months; what's up with PvE scaling?; what's up with PvP MMR?; reward structures/4* cover obtainability; why can't PvE always be non-competitive?; Invisible Woman's art and abilities.

They have addressed many of our concerns in the past - 3* character vaulting; time slices; 8-hour refreshes; extending the expiration time on I recruited characters. Although there are people who will still complain about these, at least they heard the concerns and tried finding a solution.

Unfortunately, people either overlook this or expect every other issue to be address as well. So when everyone is clamoring for pancakes and waffles, but Demiurge serves up a big bowl of oatmeal, people freak out. I have no doubt that they want their game to be fun - I have been saying for over a year now that this game could be someday.

GrumpySmurf1002

Grosnours wrote:

Who plays MPQ for the fun of it ?

Ummm...Hi?

And I wouldn't say I get a 'bare minimum' of anything either. Since they (thankfully) added DDQ, I've been averaging about 15k iso per day. That's without lightning rounds and mostly non-competitive PvE playing. I get my top 25 in PvP and I'm good.

Scoregasms

Long rant inc.

As a relative newcomer to this game (~3 months) and an avid fan of all types of puzzle games, I have to echo others points on what you define as "fun" since I've seen Demiurge use this as justification. The way you designed this game, fun is not exactly something that is part of this equation when you are playing to compete for the prize structure you have set up.

Would we like to use all sorts of characters and see how well they play in this game? Of course we would, but that simply isn't possible for most players. Unless you're just playing for the lowest possible reward, do not care anymore or just playing around in Shield Sim, we have to play the game based on how you designed it and that means having to use the best possible combinations to win. That means using 4hor to take down Deadly nodes, if not 4hor (which the majority do not even have), that means folks are using MNMags and Mystique to get through these. If I could bring my Classic Storm or Modern Black Widow for their stuns I would, but they fall over if even looked at at these levels. I'd use their teamups more if I wasn't already boosting like a crazy man. If you're designing these nodes to force players to buy boost to even have a chance at winning, that is also not fun. I go for top 2 placement usually, yes I know, if I went for lower placement, I wouldn't have to play this way, but this is how I play.

This game would be more fun if there weren't negative consequences for losing nodes repeatedly. If I could try whacking at a node with all kinds of character combos and then try again tomorrow and finally win and have a shot at the rewards, that'd be awesome (you literally have 1 event that does this that is mostly praised for it's design). Too bad in reality, I have to beat each node within a certain timeframe or I fall behind and continue to do this repeatedly. That means buying boosts and maybe Healthpacks just to get through so I don't cost my Alliance points or fall out of competition for the rewards.

You design nodes that scale the enemies up, powers and health and the players do not have any ability to artificially scale our damage outside of paying for boosts (which aren't even close to what we are seeing the enemy getting). They have AP pumps and insanely high damaging abilities that can literally one shot a character (or the entire team) and on top of that, you scale up their health to ungodly levels. Do one or the other, but don't do both. I'd be fine if you scaled their attack power, but don't increase a characters health to ridiculous levels. I'd like to know how you, as a developer, would tell someone to beat 20K health enemies when the largest hitting attack you have is 7K every 5 matches, they have 10K hitting attacks they can do every other match and they get to auto generate their own AP while we have to pray the board is good.

The same can be true for our player rosters, 4hor's powers weren't that OP (granted 12 charged tiles is a lot, 8 would've been met with a warmer welcome), it was really her health at max that bothered people the most in PVP, it's the same concept with PVE above, how can I take this monster down with my 4-7K attacks while her friends decimate my team. Nobody was afraid of her abilities, if I bring my own 4hor and the other Surges early, guess what, she just did the hard part for me and now I can ride those charged tiles to victory, if she smites early, that's her own damn fault, but most can live through that and continue.

If you think folks are Power Surging the minute that ability is ready with no Smite ready to go so there are charged tiles on the board to help accelerate AP to get to Smite, seriously... maybe in an all goon node, but no chance I do that against tile movers unless I am desperate.

Also agree that doing a preemptive nerf because potential upcoming characters that will even out her damage a bit more is a bit nutty. It doesn't make sense to do it before without seeing how they interacted in actual gameplay first. To imagine how I feel as an old school Arcade Coin-Op player, playing the Original Street Fighter, this feels like you just nerfed Ryu's Fireball by making it 50% slower and hit for 50% less and reduced his Uppercut damage by 30%. Sure, he still has his Fireball and Uppercut, but you better believe folks are moving onto someone else.

But, enough about 4hor, I'll wait and see if I can still get through nodes with her updated abilities, but I just don't see it yet (hoping I am wrong).

Regarding the Mystique/Mags nerfs, seriously, plenty of folks in the transition phase relied on this to get through the PVEs and even won some PVP with it, it hurt nobody. Now, they aren't able to get through the same nodes with their limited roster, if you're gonna nerf those guys, are you going to buff some other characters so they can still compete? No? The new Mags may be more fun, but he has no business in a Deadly node anymore.

Apologies, I don't want to be overly negative, I'm still planning to continue to play and be competitive, but I don't think you quite realize the repercussions of these changes. My alliance has already folks lose motivation and retire because of this, we can't be the only one. You also announce this during a 4* release which is already a stress on Alliances too. Come on, a little forward thinking would be nice here.

I do appreciate that Demiurge is responding to this thread and perhaps I'm just too new to see that this is par for course (since I wasn't around for the other nerfs), but for my first Demiurge Nerf Experience, this indeed is not fun.

radav

[/quote] In any other game, this kind of balancing is part of the life-cycle of the game, but MPQ is built on very specific model. A model which forces the player to invest ginormous amount of time and/or money to actually achieve an ever-moving goal. Not only was 4thor very desirable, she was also incredibly difficult to get. In a game that doesn't have a shred of an endgame, managing to get this character was a milestone of the highest importance, the crown of a brilliant carrier. The fun was in getting her and having her.

In the meantime, we all live in this imperfect world and you better not take my hard-earned shiny big carrot and exchange them sneakily for a mundane one, especially without a warning.
Because that makes me angry. That makes me want to do the only other thing I can do besides running in my wheel: leaving and never looking back.[/quote]

They can talk about FUN all they want with respect to balance changes. I want them to respond to people's legitimate gripes concerning amount of time, ISO and HP spent on a character to be told if you don't like the changes we're giving you the option of getting back a fraction of what you put into it. I agree completely with your post grosnours and I really feel like this will need to be addressed if I'm going to continue putting any amount of time into their game. I keep seeing terms like mass hysteria tossed around like the people who have a gripe here are crazy. You're talking about people spending potentially large sums of money on a character due to their CRAZY cover prices. If we were talking about $5 for a fully covered character than there's not much to complain about but the way they've priced things, the scarcity of their availability and the time investment involved it's a legitimate concern. Why bother investing time, ISO, or HP into something when in the blink of an eye it's value can be completely trashed with no reasonable recompense. As was mentioned there are now a number of 3* characters who when these changes go through will be better than 4* thor. That seems amazingly foolish when you consider the amount of HP and ISO it takes to get a 4* to a useable level. I'm really hoping that they have some kind of plan or reasonable response coming down the pipe but when Miles has nothing better to say than trust me they'll be fun to play in the face of a large number of people asking for more than their reassurance that they know what they're doing, I feel like I'd be better off spending my time doing just about anything else.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Ummm...Hi?

Yes, sorry I might have expressed myself in a slightly too condensed fashion. So let me rephrase. Imagine there would be a sandbox mode in MPQ, one where you could play game against whoever you wanted with any heroes you have. But you won''t gain anything after the combat. While at the same time the MPQ as we know it still exists.
Would you in those conditions play in the sandbox ? If playing a match is in itself so fun, who cares about any prize, right ?

What I want to lead to here, is that a big part of the interest (fun) of the game is in the feeling of progression, however small it can be. We're not playing the game for the sheer fun of it, but because there is a carrot somewhere. The very fact that you actually did measure how much ISO you gain per day (and it's quite a hefty results, congrats) makes me think you also share this preoccupation of progression.

Unknown

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

mjh wrote:

while all that sounds good I think the 4Thor nerf was barely a nerf. I never had a problem with her blue change.

It's MNMags that got hit hard for no reason. He is a critical part of the 2* transition. The little guys are suffering more than the 270 veterans with this change.

Just wanted to jump in here real quick and give a little bit of explanation about the change to Magneto and Mystique. Both of these characters have been part of an infinite turn combo for a while now. These kinds of infinite turn combos tend to be very grindy and slow, so not only do they break the difficulty scale of the game but they are also no fun to play.

I think when people get their hands on the new Magneto they'll find that he's still quite good. You can almost always make a match 5 given two blue tiles in the same quarter of the board and three placed tiles. Not to mention there are no other 2* red generators. Tile placement powers are significantly stronger than they might seem on paper, and this one was way over the top.

As for Mystique, when we originally balanced Mystique we purposely made her Blue slightly more powerful than normal because we weren't entirely sure how well it would work (generating two colors instead of one, would it be reliable, would it be fun?). This change brings her in line with other tile converters. As to why we changed her:

Our game provides lots of powerful combinations of characters, but there's a fine line between powerful and broken. We changed Magneto about as far as we could while maintaining his original feel, but it just wasn't enough to stop the infinite turn combo. So we took a look at Mystique and decided that with a little tweak we could at least slow the momentum of that combo to a point where it's more on the powerful side of the line.

Hopefully this answers some questions. If I can leave you with anything it's this: These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun, Iron Fist is still fun, Thor is still fun.

I understand the needing to eliminate the infinite combo, but I am curious on your thought process when MMN creates 3 blue that you can place and 5 random red for 9 ap, mystique now creates 9 purple/black for 10 ap, but IF create 7 black for 5 ap or he can do 4k damage. This is my main complaint about these recent changes. Can you please explain this? That is a huge hit to mystique.

puppychow

SolidQ wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible

Why you overnerf Ragnarok? He's now terrible, worse than was

Actually I have a different take on Ragnorak and his blue power. Yesterday, while making a last minute push in an expirating pve sub, the AI Rag kept doing an infinite turn combo and wiped out my team. I had to double check to confirm that I wasn't facing Thor.

Once players get their hands on his blue cover, I guarantee you'll be seeing Rag/MNMag/Cstorm combos from 2*/3* transition players.

puppychow

My thoughts on Mnmag. . . I think his red tile generation will be quite useful in combination w/ DD's red traps or AstWolf's red power (faster trigger). Assuming the changes to his abilities will stick, I fully expect 2*/3* transition players to use him frequently.

While on the subject of tile placement and infinite turn combos, I would *LOVE* to see CapA's and Rogers' yellow ability require less AP. I actually use his yellow ability in Deadpool Dailies against goons, and I certainly appreciate this power.

puppychow

radav wrote:

They can talk about FUN all they want with respect to balance changes. I want them to respond to people's legitimate gripes concerning amount of time, ISO and HP spent on a character to be told if you don't like the changes we're giving you the option of getting back a fraction of what you put into it. I agree completely with your post grosnours and I really feel like this will need to be addressed if I'm going to continue putting any amount of time into their game. I keep seeing terms like mass hysteria tossed around like the people who have a gripe here are crazy. You're talking about people spending potentially large sums of money on a character due to their CRAZY cover prices. If we were talking about $5 for a fully covered character than there's not much to complain about but the way they've priced things, the scarcity of their availability and the time investment involved it's a legitimate concern. Why bother investing time, ISO, or HP into something when in the blink of an eye it's value can be completely trashed with no reasonable recompense. As was mentioned there are now a number of 3* characters who when these changes go through will be better than 4* thor. That seems amazingly foolish when you consider the amount of HP and ISO it takes to get a 4* to a useable level. I'm really hoping that they have some kind of plan or reasonable response coming down the pipe but when Miles has nothing better to say than trust me they'll be fun to play in the face of a large number of people asking for more than their reassurance that they know what they're doing, I feel like I'd be better off spending my time doing just about anything else.[/quote]

I once saw a guy in a 5Deadly alliance w/ a handful of fully maxed 4* wolfs AND Goddesses. I can't imagine someone who blew so much money into buying covers and then iso to level these characters would continue playing the game in light of the change to GT. I think players should get back at least half what they spent on iso and hp to sell unwanted characters, if D3 wants these players to continue playing MPQ.

rednailz

Sure there's rage over the Thor issue, and IMO transition players just got screwed with Mmags nerf, and if they were nerfing Mmags there was no need to nerf mystique, but the argument is "more to come, things will get better, more better characters on the way"....well....we argue about a lot this way and that on the forums, but there's been 2 points vets, newbs, transitioners, and trolls all could easily agree on: 1. Too many new character releases too often 2. Do something right, instead of doing three times as much half-assed.

Here's my analogy: D3 is building a skyscraper. A few floors up they notice the foundation is a touch shaky, but they ignore it. A few floors later they notice the problem is getting even more lopsided. Do they stop and correct that foundation? Nope, their strategy is to slap up a pile more floors as quickly as possible and hope everyone will be dazzled and too busy grinding to notice the issues that they ignore. Then when things look like they are going to implode, they rip the foundation out from under the structure and slap together a new one.....a few floors (characters, customers, gameplay) come crashing down, and D3 starts again full knowing the foundation isn't fixed.

Fix the game and the obvious characters then try and dazzle us with more week long grinds for new guys we need to buy roster slots for. Gamers are inherently adaptable...it's what we do. We're used to levels changing, nerfs, unbalance, glitches, exploits, "the man" making the product about squeezing pennies over fun. However, gamers have long memories, about combos, games, developers, you name it. 1 bad game can hurt a company for some time. Gamers WANT to be happy, and don't have too ludicrous of demands usually.

What D3 is doing is ticking off the community they created. There's a billion million games out there, and IMO a phone /steam game having a solid year of life is a pretty impressive feat considering how saturated the marketplace is. Get your head together D3...get a foundation, lay off the new spam of characters, roll up your sleeves and really get to work. Maybe even enlist an actual gamer to help you. Do what you gotta do, but I don't think a lot of people have any motivation to play along with the dog and pony show anymore. Releasing shiney new flawed or unbalanced characters into the game doesn't fix anything. Obviously most everyone is a big fan boy of Prof X....but after him, I don't see myself enduring the pain I have been for a shot at him. If the release this week was another mid level 3* I betcha the servers would be ghost towns.

Clock's a tickin...

Unknown

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Just wanted to jump in here real quick and give a little bit of explanation about the change to Magneto and Mystique. Both of these characters have been part of an infinite turn combo for a while now. These kinds of infinite turn combos tend to be very grindy and slow, so not only do they break the difficulty scale of the game but they are also no fun to play.

So your nerfing 2 characters because of increase scaling in pve but your not going to lower and/or fix the scaling in pve?

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

I think when people get their hands on the new Magneto they'll find that he's still quite good. You can almost always make a match 5 given two blue tiles in the same quarter of the board and three placed tiles. Not to mention there are no other 2* red generators. Tile placement powers are significantly stronger than they might seem on paper, and this one was way over the top.

As for Mystique, when we originally balanced Mystique we purposely made her Blue slightly more powerful than normal because we weren't entirely sure how well it would work (generating two colors instead of one, would it be reliable, would it be fun?). This change brings her in line with other tile converters. As to why we changed her:

Beta testing could be a good place to start on telling how well something works.

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Our game provides lots of powerful combinations of characters, but there's a fine line between powerful and broken. We changed Magneto about as far as we could while maintaining his original feel, but it just wasn't enough to stop the infinite turn combo. So we took a look at Mystique and decided that with a little tweak we could at least slow the momentum of that combo to a point where it's more on the powerful side of the line.

Sounds like you mean we had to keep tweaking it to take away the fun.

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Hopefully this answers some questions. If I can leave you with anything it's this: These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun, Iron Fist is still fun, Thor is still fun.

I'd rather you leave me and everyone else with a refund but If you really think you and/or your team thought this through then why did you nerf 4* Thor yellow?

rednailz

Demiurge_Miles wrote:
Hopefully this answers some questions. If I can leave you with anything it's this: These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun.."

Mags is a cornerstone to transitioners who have a hard time...he may be fun still, but he's now dead. Mystique is still fun, but I found her WEAK before the nerf, now she's worse. I find she has too little health and tanks to much. So I have FUN with Mystique for 1 round and then have to shelf her instead of wasting a health pack.

GrumpySmurf1002

Grosnours wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Ummm...Hi?

Yes, sorry I might have expressed myself in a slightly too condensed fashion. So let me rephrase. Imagine there would be a sandbox mode in MPQ, one where you could play game against whoever you wanted with any heroes you have. But you won''t gain anything after the combat. While at the same time the MPQ as we know it still exists.
Would you in those conditions play in the sandbox ? If playing a match is in itself so fun, who cares about any prize, right ?

What I want to lead to here, is that a big part of the interest (fun) of the game is in the feeling of progression, however small it can be. We're not playing the game for the sheer fun of it, but because there is a carrot somewhere. The very fact that you actually did measure how much ISO you gain per day (and it's quite a hefty results, congrats) makes me think you also share this preoccupation of progression.

The iso tracking is more because I'm a huge dork and enjoying tracking video games. I have a whole notebook of boxscores somewhere in my parents house of Bases Loaded games for the original Nintendo. But I digress...

All video games are built on a sense of progression, otherwise there's little point. But a lot of games have a free-form mode too, which can also be fun. So to answer, I'd honestly probably play both modes.

I'll admit, there are parts of this game that have ceased to be fun for me (competitive PvE, c'mon on down!). But changes like this in the past, even the dreaded true heal, have yet to change my enjoyment of the game. I really don't see this doing it either.

DrNitroman

Phaserhawk wrote:

That means they do care about the game, they do care about the longevity and they want everyone to have a good experience. Yes that means we will be taking one on the chin here and there but it really is for the betterment of the game.

Thanks for posting such constructive - and positive! - comments Phaser

I mean, I can understand that many players are disappointed or upset after the recent changes. And it's totally natural that everyone expressed his feelings. But now it's probably time to wait and see. I'm not naive, I know that all changes aren't necessarily good... but statu quo can certainly be boring!

So let's play, and I'm curious to see how the whole meta will evolve in the following weeks and more. To be fair, I would have been much more worried if devs only released characters every 15 days without even caring about the health of the game. I agree with you Phaser, these changes show at least that they care about long-term viability of the game: good news!

Unknown

Scaling hasn't been mentioned everywhere, and we've been asking for a change for months now.

So, as far as I am concerned, the future of MPQ is not positive. That's why I quit the game.

IamTheDanger

Well said. +1 to OP and +1 to Miles for addressing this.

Regarding Thorette.....
It's pretty much what I thought. In another post I said they might have dropped Thorette's blue to 5 charge tiles to prepare for upcoming characters. I mentioned "Remy", AKA, Gambit. But it's rumored we will be getting a Spiderman villian soon. Maybe Electro?
(of course, I'd prefer a buff to C.Spidey instead of a new character. Spiderman is one of Marvel's most iconic characters, and one of my personal favorites).

For some of the others....., like Ragnarok. ....
It's kind of, not exactly, but kind of like with C.Mags. Players were very upset by this, (myself included). The infinite blue was taken away, making Patchneto useless.

But then I actually tried C.Mag. Even though he has different powers now, he is still great. He even works really well with Patch. The Patchneto team might have changed, but I still use, and enjoy it. Casting a Berserker Rage followed by Magnetized Projectiles, then Polarizing Force and the following cascade is one of my favorite combos.

TL;DR... Miles is correct. They may be different now, but different does not always mean bad or worse. Just different.

Like that guy in that story. He refused to eat a green colored breakfast because he didn't think it would be any good. But when he actually tried it, he liked it.

Ludaa

It's most definitely not like the Cmags change. Look at GT's nerf, does she look different, or worse? 5 tiles guts her skill synergy.

I wish they would've changed her skillset like Cmags, maybe she'd still look like something to chase.

They straight up took away your gold medal and gave you a silver one, despite all your effort. Why should anyone go for gold again? I don't know about your alliance chats, but mine are full of low moral and lack motivation right now.

atomzed

Grosnours wrote:

Sadly it's been six month now that 4thor is out. Six full month, more than enough time to notice that the character was imbalanced to start with, more than enough time to see new character with charged tile appear, more than enough time to predict what will happen if more characters with charged tile appear.
If we would have been talking about a Punisher or even a Patch-level character this all could have been understandable, but 4thor is a very specific case. She has entirely changed the game. For 6 month, she reigned supreme with XForce and redefined the entire meta of the game. She was the most sought after character (XForce being here since the beginning his covers were easier to get), the most coveted one.
Reactions to this change are not only understandable, they were predictable and entirely justified. Why ?

In any other game, this kind of balancing is part of the life-cycle of the game, but MPQ is built on very specific model. A model which forces the player to invest ginormous amount of time and/or money to actually achieve an ever-moving goal. Not only was 4thor very desirable, she was also incredibly difficult to get. In a game that doesn't have a shred of an endgame, managing to get this character was a milestone of the highest importance, the crown of a brilliant carrier. The fun was in getting her and having her. Which brings us to...

I just wanted to point something out for those who are raging now (not specifically targetting you Grosnours, just that your post provides a good way to raise the point).

- 4thor: Nerfed after 6 months of release.
- Iron Fist: Nerfed within 2 weeks of release.
- Xaiver: Nerfed before release.

So in this 2 weeks alone, we have nerf that was done very early (Xavier), early (Iron Fist) and late (4thor).

In both 3 cases, there was a lot of rage about the nerfs. Many people are angry about Xavier being nerf before release. Many people are angry about Iron Fist being nerfed so fast after release. And yet even more people are upset about 4thor being nerfed after so long....

Truthfully, i think it is very difficult for D3 to sieve through the posts and make sense of it. As an outsider, i will not know what the forummites wants me to do. Should i nerf before release, soon after release, or very late after release? I can't tell.

I also would like to remind people about the Hood change. Many, many people were upset about the change to Hood Twin Pistol such that it doesn't gain AP. I remember vividly that even people like Locked were protesting angrily over it. But after a few weeks of playing, many people come to realization that the change wasn't that bad. In fact, some may feel that the change is good!