A new outlook on MPQ and it's positive.

Phaserhawk

I have been in contact with Miles recently, this was my first contact with a red and it was extremely positive and informative. Yes, devs and reds are real people not greek gods playing with us from Olympus.

I was initially upset at some of the changes, but as I have had time to digest this spicy burrito of character updates, and my conversation with Miles I do think MPQ is headed for a better place.

The elephant in the room that is 4hor. Regardless of what your opinions are, the devs basically asked themselves the question about how much AP is worth and decided (I now agree) that Thor was just putting out too much for what she cost. I want to say this was 100% speculation by Miles but it would also makes sense, that there are more charged tile characters coming down the pipeline and if that is indeed true as we all think, then fixing Thor now is/was a smart move.

Here is why I also agree with his speculation. If Thor was the only character capable of making charged tiles now and forever, there would be no reason to nerf blue, in fact red would have probably taking the bigger hit because red was doing to much damage. But Phaser it's 12K for 19AP that's only 630 per AP that's not terrible she's a 4*, your right, but its not really a true 19AP. 19AP implies 6.3 matches. This was more like 2-3 matches due to charged tiles and boosts, which if 3 per match is really 12K for 9 AP which is more like 1333 dmg per AP, that's a bit high. Now if 4hor however is no longer the only charged tile creator, well now the need for blue to be the main creator of her charged tiles is not as needed, if Rags is the start and there comes Gambit or the like that can also create charged tiles, when now 4hor being able to create 12 becomes overpowered and that is where I think they are going and guess what?...........

That means they do care about the game, they do care about the longevity and they want everyone to have a good experience. Yes that means we will be taking one on the chin here and there but it really is for the betterment of the game. My speculation, I think X-Force will be seeing his power reigned in, and that we are going to see more charged tile creators. Obviously they can't tell us what characters are coming out ahead of time and say, "hey guys, don't worry, Gambit will come out in a few weeks, he creates charged tiles too using purple, so he can offset her blue"

one, they can't tell us legally due to contracts, and two that also takes the fun out of it. So eveyrone come down off the ledge, Rags is proof that more charged tile characters are coming and I think that his 4hor charged tile amount is actually for some future characters that will help mitigate this loss.

Phaser

Unknown

Actions over words.

woopie

From the sounds of it, they don't want to see 2 4*s as the go-to team because it makes the game look too P2W. Instead, they give (or will give) us feeder characters to break up the current meta. IF for XFW and the eventual Gambit for 4or.

mjh

while all that sounds good I think the 4Thor nerf was barely a nerf. I never had a problem with her blue change.

It's MNMags that got hit hard for no reason. He is a critical part of the 2* transition. The little guys are suffering more than the 270 veterans with this change.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

My speculation, I think X-Force will be seeing his power reigned in,

Phaser

There are a lot more folks running a usable XF than 4hor. I can only imagine the uproar when they neuter him to the level of a good 3*.

easy...marc

DaveR4470

Hear hear. I think the hysteria is a bit overblown, too.

Everyone needs to keep this in mind: if the devs were really all about "money grabs" and milking the whales, they wouldn't have done anything at all. Leave Thorverine in place, so that everyone has to cover those two up to compete in PvP. Then... introduce a new 4* that's a Thorverine killer! Now everyone has to spend big bucks to level THAT character up to be competitive in PvP. Then, you wait a while, and... OMG A NEW 4* THAT'S EVEN BETTER! So everyone has to cover that up, etc....

Trust me, there are some FTP games that are pretty much run like this. It's exploitive, IMHO.

For better or worse, the changes being made are intended, in the end, to make all the characters you have -- including the ones you've maxed, on which they'll make no more money from covers -- potentially useful. There are legitimate gripes about how they go about testing and modelling the impact of new characters, and whether the pace of introductions should slow down, and reward/event structure, etc etc... but on the whole, I do believe that the developers want to make this a broadly playable and enjoyable game. Which is more than you can say about a LOT of mobile-market game developers.

Ludaa

So it's ok to clip the wings of a rare character we spent either absurd amounts of time or money on because there's probably another one coming out that we can spend absurd amounts of time or money on to obtain, who might make things better?

Passions run high here. They match the costs in this game. If they want to flood us with new characters AND make clumsy changes when things are broken, then they need to lower the investment on our part.

esoxnepa

Phaserhawk wrote:

I have been in contact with Miles recently, this was my first contact with a red and it was extremely positive and informative. Yes, devs and reds are real people not greek gods playing with us from Olympus.

Phaser

They seem to be good people and hard workers. I do not think they play the game enough, at high enough levels to understand the meta and speed the game flows at.

I appealed that Mystique be give a power at 6 AP for half the effect of this 10 AP move. At 10 AP (4 Matches vs 2), a disruption move is too slow for PvP. So while changing her to break the loop, why not improve her. Yet they take a weak character, not seen in PvP, and slow her further.

I understand they like to break up the infinite combos, even though they've always been part of the Puzzle Quest Series. They need to improve the character adjustments, along with when and how much notice those adjustments are made.

simonsez

Am I supposed to give a **** that future characters might make her suck less? If this is really the thought process that's going on over there, they're even more lost than I thought. Pre-emptive nerfing because of something that MIGHT happen at some undetermined point in the future? That's completely absurd.

Here's an idea: wait until these other charged tile feeders actually EXIST before doing a nerf like this!

Unknown

mjh wrote:

while all that sounds good I think the 4Thor nerf was barely a nerf. I never had a problem with her blue change.

It's MNMags that got hit hard for no reason. He is a critical part of the 2* transition. The little guys are suffering more than the 270 veterans with this change.

Just wanted to jump in here real quick and give a little bit of explanation about the change to Magneto and Mystique. Both of these characters have been part of an infinite turn combo for a while now. These kinds of infinite turn combos tend to be very grindy and slow, so not only do they break the difficulty scale of the game but they are also no fun to play.

I think when people get their hands on the new Magneto they'll find that he's still quite good. You can almost always make a match 5 given two blue tiles in the same quarter of the board and three placed tiles. Not to mention there are no other 2* red generators. Tile placement powers are significantly stronger than they might seem on paper, and this one was way over the top.

As for Mystique, when we originally balanced Mystique we purposely made her Blue slightly more powerful than normal because we weren't entirely sure how well it would work (generating two colors instead of one, would it be reliable, would it be fun?). This change brings her in line with other tile converters. As to why we changed her:

Our game provides lots of powerful combinations of characters, but there's a fine line between powerful and broken. We changed Magneto about as far as we could while maintaining his original feel, but it just wasn't enough to stop the infinite turn combo. So we took a look at Mystique and decided that with a little tweak we could at least slow the momentum of that combo to a point where it's more on the powerful side of the line.

Hopefully this answers some questions. If I can leave you with anything it's this: These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun, Iron Fist is still fun, Thor is still fun.

Stony

That's all well and good, but can we get someone who's name is in red to at least comment on this viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25222

Unknown

DaveR4470 wrote:

Hear hear. I think the hysteria is a bit overblown, too.

Everyone needs to keep this in mind: if the devs were really all about "money grabs" and milking the whales, they wouldn't have done anything at all. Leave Thorverine in place, so that everyone has to cover those two up to compete in PvP. Then... introduce a new 4* that's a Thorverine killer! Now everyone has to spend big bucks to level THAT character up to be competitive in PvP. Then, you wait a while, and... OMG A NEW 4* THAT'S EVEN BETTER! So everyone has to cover that up, etc....

Trust me, there are some FTP games that are pretty much run like this. It's exploitive, IMHO.

For better or worse, the changes being made are intended, in the end, to make all the characters you have -- including the ones you've maxed, on which they'll make no more money from covers -- potentially useful. There are legitimate gripes about how they go about testing and modelling the impact of new characters, and whether the pace of introductions should slow down, and reward/event structure, etc etc... but on the whole, I do believe that the developers want to make this a broadly playable and enjoyable game. Which is more than you can say about a LOT of mobile-market game developers.

Nerfing several characters, two of which are pretty new, is definitely a big deal. Perhaps you don't think D3 releasing a character and nerfing him in two weeks reeks of mismanagement and lack of foresight. Also, posting the changes on this forum, but not providing an in game pop-up, leaves plenty of more room for cash grabbing. Remember, this forum only represents a small percentage of the player-base.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Am I supposed to give a **** that future characters might make her suck less? If this is really the thought process that's going on over there, they're even more lost than I thought. Pre-emptive nerfing because of something that MIGHT happen at some undetermined point in the future? That's completely absurd.

Here's an idea: wait until these other charged tile feeders actually EXIST before doing a nerf like this!

Why is it so hard to wait and try the changes? If they stink, you can still rant AND have evidence they don't work. If they do work, then what was all this for any way?

SolidQ

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible

Why you overnerf Ragnarok? He's now terrible, worse than was

Unknown

MPQ needs a disclaimer box for in game purchases.

"Thanks for the $100, a week from now your product will be different, but don't worry...it's still fun."

Polares

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

mjh wrote:

while all that sounds good I think the 4Thor nerf was barely a nerf. I never had a problem with her blue change.

It's MNMags that got hit hard for no reason. He is a critical part of the 2* transition. The little guys are suffering more than the 270 veterans with this change.

Just wanted to jump in here real quick and give a little bit of explanation about the change to Magneto and Mystique. Both of these characters have been part of an infinite turn combo for a while now. These kinds of infinite turn combos tend to be very grindy and slow, so not only do they break the difficulty scale of the game but they are also no fun to play.

I think when people get their hands on the new Magneto they'll find that he's still quite good. You can almost always make a match 5 given two blue tiles in the same quarter of the board and three placed tiles. Not to mention there are no other 2* red generators. Tile placement powers are significantly stronger than they might seem on paper, and this one was way over the top.

As for Mystique, when we originally balanced Mystique we purposely made her Blue slightly more powerful than normal because we weren't entirely sure how well it would work (generating two colors instead of one, would it be reliable, would it be fun?). This change brings her in line with other tile converters. As to why we changed her:

Our game provides lots of powerful combinations of characters, but there's a fine line between powerful and broken. We changed Magneto about as far as we could while maintaining his original feel, but it just wasn't enough to stop the infinite turn combo. So we took a look at Mystique and decided that with a little tweak we could at least slow the momentum of that combo to a point where it's more on the powerful side of the line.

Hopefully this answers some questions. If I can leave you with anything it's this: These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun, Iron Fist is still fun, Thor is still fun.

****!?!? Thor is still fun? Using 19 AP for 7000 hps is still fun? I think you have a very strange definition for fun...

Phaser, YOU CAN'T NERF something in a PREEMPTIVE way. And if devs were going to introduce new characters with more charged tiles, they should have made 4hor with that in mind. Now there is people that has invested time and money into this character and they have lost this investment.

And now you are telling me that maybe, and that is a big maybe, if there is a new char that uses charged tiles 4hor is going to suck less, ****?!?! So now I will need to use this other future char with her always! Wow what a great perspective! And if this future char is as good as Rags, then what?

Unknown

SolidQ wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible

Why you overnerf Ragnarok? He's now terrible, worse than was

We didn't nerf Rangarok, we made him different. Honestly, try him with his new power and see what you think. Don't just judge him based on how the AI plays him.

SolidQ

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

SolidQ wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible

Why you overnerf Ragnarok? He's now terrible, worse than was

We didn't nerf Rangarok, we made him different. Honestly, try him with his new power and see what you think. Don't just judge him based on how the AI plays him.

I play with my Ragnarok 140 lvl. Green is way too expensive. Thor deal more dmg 4500 to target + 2200 to other. Rag deal 2200 to all and self team. Green need like 10-11 ap

Colognoisseur

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun, Iron Fist is still fun, Thor is still fun.

If there is one thing I am dead sure of you and the rest of the dev team have no idea what I consider "fun".

I do know that almost every time you've assured me something would be "fun" it has turned out to be anything but.

I don't think your assurances make me feel any better.

I think you have no idea how and why I play the game.

I hope you're right because for the first time I think you might have done significant damage with your changes.

Time will tell.

Unknown

Polares wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

mjh wrote:

while all that sounds good I think the 4Thor nerf was barely a nerf. I never had a problem with her blue change.

It's MNMags that got hit hard for no reason. He is a critical part of the 2* transition. The little guys are suffering more than the 270 veterans with this change.

Just wanted to jump in here real quick and give a little bit of explanation about the change to Magneto and Mystique. Both of these characters have been part of an infinite turn combo for a while now. These kinds of infinite turn combos tend to be very grindy and slow, so not only do they break the difficulty scale of the game but they are also no fun to play.

I think when people get their hands on the new Magneto they'll find that he's still quite good. You can almost always make a match 5 given two blue tiles in the same quarter of the board and three placed tiles. Not to mention there are no other 2* red generators. Tile placement powers are significantly stronger than they might seem on paper, and this one was way over the top.

As for Mystique, when we originally balanced Mystique we purposely made her Blue slightly more powerful than normal because we weren't entirely sure how well it would work (generating two colors instead of one, would it be reliable, would it be fun?). This change brings her in line with other tile converters. As to why we changed her:

Our game provides lots of powerful combinations of characters, but there's a fine line between powerful and broken. We changed Magneto about as far as we could while maintaining his original feel, but it just wasn't enough to stop the infinite turn combo. So we took a look at Mystique and decided that with a little tweak we could at least slow the momentum of that combo to a point where it's more on the powerful side of the line.

Hopefully this answers some questions. If I can leave you with anything it's this: These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun, Iron Fist is still fun, Thor is still fun.

****!?!? Thor is still fun? Using 19 AP for 7000 hps is still fun? I think you have a very strange definition for fun...

Phaser, YOU CAN'T NERF something in a PREEMPTIVE way. And if devs were going to introduce new characters with more charged tiles, they should have made 4hor with that in mind. Now there is people that has invested time and money into this character and they have lost this investment.

And now you are telling me that maybe, and that is a big maybe, if there is a new char that uses charged tiles 4hor is going to suck less, ****?!?! So now I will need to use this other future char with her always! Wow what a great perspective! And if this future char is as good as Rags, then what?

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of hearing this 19 ap for 7000 damage crud. Be accurate. You also get 3 turn stun and charged tiles. And stop acting like 4or is the only character on the field. 3 turn stun is an advantage and worth 9 ap by itself.

People can be sad 4or is no longer op, but she is still good. And despite all the whining, after the change ppl will still be fielding their 4or. Why? Because she is still that good.

Unknown

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

mjh wrote:

while all that sounds good I think the 4Thor nerf was barely a nerf. I never had a problem with her blue change.

It's MNMags that got hit hard for no reason. He is a critical part of the 2* transition. The little guys are suffering more than the 270 veterans with this change.

Just wanted to jump in here real quick and give a little bit of explanation about the change to Magneto and Mystique. Both of these characters have been part of an infinite turn combo for a while now. These kinds of infinite turn combos tend to be very grindy and slow, so not only do they break the difficulty scale of the game but they are also no fun to play.

I think when people get their hands on the new Magneto they'll find that he's still quite good. You can almost always make a match 5 given two blue tiles in the same quarter of the board and three placed tiles. Not to mention there are no other 2* red generators. Tile placement powers are significantly stronger than they might seem on paper, and this one was way over the top.

As for Mystique, when we originally balanced Mystique we purposely made her Blue slightly more powerful than normal because we weren't entirely sure how well it would work (generating two colors instead of one, would it be reliable, would it be fun?). This change brings her in line with other tile converters. As to why we changed her:

Our game provides lots of powerful combinations of characters, but there's a fine line between powerful and broken. We changed Magneto about as far as we could while maintaining his original feel, but it just wasn't enough to stop the infinite turn combo. So we took a look at Mystique and decided that with a little tweak we could at least slow the momentum of that combo to a point where it's more on the powerful side of the line.

Hopefully this answers some questions. If I can leave you with anything it's this: These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible, but wait till you get to play with the characters. I promise you we've thought this through. Magneto is still fun, Mystique is still fun, Iron Fist is still fun, Thor is still fun.

Is there any chance that you could comment on the suggestions being made to alter the nerfs into a more digestible state? (change mag's purple to yellow to help break the winfinite and bump blue to 8 charged instead of 5) It seems fairly arbitrary at this point and I think it might be easier for everyone if we could understand why the changes are so drastic?

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

SolidQ wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

These changes aren't out yet and I know they seem terrible

Why you overnerf Ragnarok? He's now terrible, worse than was

We didn't nerf Rangarok, we made him different. Honestly, try him with his new power and see what you think. Don't just judge him based on how the AI plays him.

You nerfed the green by increasing the cost and, looking at abilities with similar costs, it pales in comparison by damaging the team and not doing as much damage. I understand that calling it a complete nerf is probably a bit too far, but the green power definitely feels nerfed from reading about it.