Request: Full iso/HP refunds

Trisul

Hi D3,

Please give full refunds for selling the changed characters. Meaning HP for each cover obtained, and equivalent iso for the investment.

For example, selling:
- 270 Goddess = 25000 HP, 430646 iso
- 70 Goddess with full covers = 25000 HP, 0 iso
- 166 Iron Fist = 12500 HP, 172764 iso
- 166 Mystique = 12500 HP, 172764 iso
- 94 Magneto = 5000 HP, 69524 iso

Thanks,
Trisul

EDIT: Changed HP amounts for 10 covers.

Unknown

That's... a bit much. I guess it would mean you can take those covers of the changed character and put them into other characters but still. They must have records of cover purchases right? I'd be down with full refund of purchases for these characters in a specific time period, whatever that winds up being (2 weeks, 1 month, all of time and space...)

For reference: If they did offer this I'd probably sell my TGT and put covers into Fury and or Star Lord, and sell Mystique, Rags, and MNM to boot, and play the HELL out of Shield Sim looking for MNM covers to sell.

Unknown

The super special mega sale prices will be insulting as usual. Even for IF who got nerfed incredibly soon after release (although IMO he's still decent so I wouldn't sell him but that's not the point).

GrumpySmurf1002

I appreciate the gusto, but there's no way this should happen or is even fair compensation.

I highly doubt people bought mMags covers, and if they did, that's on them. No way should he be worth 6500HP to the seller. I have no idea how many people have a max covered Mags, but even if it were just the top 200 alliances, that's 26 million HP put back into the economy, or $130k based on Stark Salary value. And that's just one character! That's also without even considering the players who have used 270 Thor to rake in hundreds of covers and thousands of iso/hp.

There's no way they're giving back hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of dollars worth of in game currency for this.

If you bought your cover in the last week or so, sure, I think you should be entitled to the refund of the HP and ISO. That's it though.

Unknown

I'd say Full refund only on IF imo

Let's not forget D3 pimped out IF in Token Packs for his debut, further using the OP HYPE to profit from noobs.

Arondite

Trisul wrote:

Hi D3,

Please give full refunds for selling the changed characters. Meaning HP for each cover obtained, and equivalent iso for the investment.

For example, selling:
- 270 Goddess = 32500 25,000 HP, 430646 iso
- 70 Goddess with full covers = 32500 25,000 HP, 0 iso
- 166 Iron Fist = 1625012,500 HP, 172764 iso
- 166 Mystique = 16250 12,500HP, 172764 iso
- 94 Magneto = 65005,000 HP, 69524 iso

Thanks,
Trisul

Can't count the initial 3, since you can purchase (at most) 10 covers directly with HP.

Ludaa

I bought one blue cover for GT, and I'm not too upset about that. All other covers were earned in game and I don't expect any reimbursement for those. Now, the 300k iso I spent to level her...yeah, I'd like to put that elsewhere now. I've had her usable at 4/2/5 for maybe 3 events, I wouldn't say I've reaped much in the way of rewards.

Trisul

I'm not expecting them to be this generous, but it's a goodwill gesture (much like alliance slot refunds).

Arondite wrote:

Can't count the initial 3, since you can purchase (at most) 10 covers directly with HP.

Good point.

babinro

Completely Agree with the OP here.

Hearthstone is seen as one of the most successful free to play games on the market today and when they make any balance change to a card they allow a full refund in 'dust' value so players can instantly get another card of equal value.

That's how you respect your player base in the face of an unpleasant change.

You might view this as lost sales and to a degree you'd be correct. But you can also view it as customer retention and greater potential future sales. People with a mass of HP/ISO will be more likely to frivolously spend it on covers or the next big character anyways....where before they might have held off and saved it longer. It may take them awhile to spend money again but at least they'll be around to be a potential customer.

D3 knows this as well.

They've done right by us with the HP refund upon defaulting alliances to 20. I'm sure your numbers will show that many of those people refunded have gone on to spend more on the game. I certainly did.

kensterr

Well if D3 doesn't want to refund then just give everyone who paid for the nerfed covers this - 100,000 ISO per nerfed cover sounds fair.

Unknown

babinro wrote:

Completely Agree with the OP here.

Hearthstone is seen as one of the most successful free to play games on the market today and when they make any balance change to a card they allow a full refund in 'dust' value so players can instantly get another card of equal value.

That's how you respect your player base in the face of an unpleasant change.

You might view this as lost sales and to a degree you'd be correct. But you can also view it as customer retention and greater potential future sales. People with a mass of HP/ISO will be more likely to frivolously spend it on covers or the next big character anyways....where before they might have held off and saved it longer. It may take them awhile to spend money again but at least they'll be around to be a potential customer.

D3 knows this as well.

They've done right by us with the HP refund upon defaulting alliances to 20. I'm sure your numbers will show that many of those people refunded have gone on to spend more on the game. I certainly did.

Very eloquently spoken/written. Makes a lot of sense.

DaveR4470

kensterr wrote:

Well if D3 doesn't want to refund then just give everyone who paid for the nerfed covers this - 100,000 ISO per nerfed cover sounds fair.

$400 a cover???????

Respectfully, that's like saying that it's fair to get a $15,000 payment if you buy a Lexus and the CD player doesn't work and can't be fixed....

I'm totally sympathetic to your plight, guys, but for pete's sake, the changed characters are only moderately less effective than they were before. It's not like you spent money on something that was completely removed from the game.... Let's be reasonable here. If I'm D3 and my choice is to lose you as a customer or pay out thousands of dollars' worth of HP... I'm going to abandon you as a customer. That's not even a choice.

Here's something that might work, though, and is a little more realistic from the business perspective. We all know that you can sell a character for ISO. So how about a short-term period in which HP is purchasable using ISO, at the current "exchange rate" of 6 ISO = 1 HP? That way, if you really think the character in question is ruined for you, you're free to sell it and recoup a good deal of HP by using the sale ISO to buy HP. Or, you can keep the character. Of course people who don't have the impacted characters, but are sitting on a lot of ISO, would be able to take advantage of this to buy HP. But them's the breaks. D3 can write that off as the cost of PR. At least you, the impacted player, have a choice to recoup some HP in that case. Thoughts?

Trisul

DaveR4470 wrote:

$400 a cover???????

Respectfully, that's like saying that it's fair to get a $15,000 payment if you buy a Lexus and the CD player doesn't work and can't be fixed....

I'm totally sympathetic to your plight, guys, but for pete's sake, the changed characters are only moderately less effective than they were before. It's not like you spent money on something that was completely removed from the game.... Let's be reasonable here. If I'm D3 and my choice is to lose you as a customer or pay out thousands of dollars' worth of HP... I'm going to abandon you as a customer. That's not even a choice.

Their prices on iso is ridiculous. Why anyone would measure iso by the prices they set for iso bundles is beyond me.

"Costs 40 cents a skip guys. You're just throwing money away if you do."

Unknown

They should at least consider something different for Iron Fist because that's an unusually short time frame for nerf. Although I guess being able to burn through The Hunt in a competition for Professor X is worth a few thousand HP, that's still pretty unprecedented. The rest of the characters you can get into a standard argument of 'you got your money back with soandso's dominance' and while I don't think it's necessarily a good argument, if you had Thor for several months she's obviously earning most of what it cost to level her up. It'd be trickier for people who have the said characters relatively short but that'd be impossible to unwind.

scottee

babinro wrote:

Completely Agree with the OP here.

Hearthstone is seen as one of the most successful free to play games on the market today and when they make any balance change to a card they allow a full refund in 'dust' value so players can instantly get another card of equal value.

That's how you respect your player base in the face of an unpleasant change.

You might view this as lost sales and to a degree you'd be correct. But you can also view it as customer retention and greater potential future sales. People with a mass of HP/ISO will be more likely to frivolously spend it on covers or the next big character anyways....where before they might have held off and saved it longer. It may take them awhile to spend money again but at least they'll be around to be a potential customer.

D3 knows this as well.

They've done right by us with the HP refund upon defaulting alliances to 20. I'm sure your numbers will show that many of those people refunded have gone on to spend more on the game. I certainly did.

Team Fortress 2, which is waaaaaaaaaaay more successful than Hearthstone and essentially started the F2P genre/craze, gives you diddly squat when they make a balance change. Same when they make cosmetic changes in rarity that have a large impact on the secondary economy and cost people hundreds of dollars.

I do agree people who bought IF purple covers should get a refund though.

wirius

Why should they? You've likely had those characters in their overpowered state for a long time (barringi iron fist), so you had the advantage that brought to win lots of covers.

Unknown

I believe people are entitled to a full refund of the character. It's not going to cost them anything. Oh here is some more in-game HP and ISO but we are only going to give you half of it. For them to give you HP and ISO, it costs them nothing. It would be better then losing a customer. They are selling you a product with each new character, and when they decide to nerf it or change you are not getting what you invested in it and a person can feel cheated. How many more people would be outraged if they nerfed x-force. A lot more people have xforce then 4thor. How would you feel if you had some end game pvp and they basically turned your 4 star into a 3 star. Isn't this the first time they have nerfed a 4 star character anyway. Seems like 4 stars should be better then 3 stars. Since they waited months to change it, more people chased the carrot. Worked harder to grind for that extra 4thor cover. Did more LR rounds for more iso to max her. We the consumer are playing by the developers rules, we did not design the character. Why not come out with a character that counter balances her? She only seems OP cause she works so well with xforce. Maybe if the other 4 star characters were better then it wouldn't be a problem. But aren't you also supposed to be winning the PVP's with 4 star characters anyway. You can have balance in a game were you have different tiers of characters. Maybe you should limit the number of 4 stars in PVP, like only bring one at a time. That could bring some diversity to it. Seems like they go over board and nerf characters without actually thinking things through.

Trisul

wirius wrote:

Why should they? You've likely had those characters in their overpowered state for a long time (barringi iron fist), so you had the advantage that brought to win lots of covers.

I'm not planning on selling any of the characters myself, but don't you feel bad for people that paid for these covers? Like mentioned above, Hearthstone refunds full card costs when changed and that generally comes with a lot of player goodwill, which is not trivial. MPQ sorely needs it after this round of changes.

Unknown

I agree that these changes are an insult to the people that whaled the covers, and I hate nerfing.......

But I know everyone is going to hate me for saying this and I probably won't get the 1k reward ever again because of angry incomings.

Really think about what you are asking for.

If they reimburse you back the full ISO and hp for the recent nerf characters, would it be ok to also take back the covers, ISO and hp that you won with the recent nerfed characters?
Characters have been nerfed before it's not a new thing. And now that I really have calm down and excepted the facts I think the anger was because there has never been a character that can win fights so quick and defend so good at the same time besides sentry. But sentry never stunned for 5 turns.

Although I think that the only problem with shora was the stun for 5 turns and then create the charge tiles to give battery to the death ability.
So to me the best nerf would be:
blue, keep stun for five turns and don't create charge tiles
Yellow, keep same
Red, keep the same damage and create the charged tiles. This way the player will have to recharge the red ability before casting it again. This will also give a chance for the opponent to retaliate before being downed.

The problem when facing a thora was that when stunned was casted it was all over and it was so easy to win. Stun 1st target pick up blue tiles, stun 2nd target pick up blue tiles stun 3rd player, and then the player was free to pick up all the red tiles and repeat the proses taking out the first target.

Again I'm with you guys and very disappointed with the changes. Plz don't hate me.. More..

user311

It has been a while I think since a 2* was tweaked. IRC MHawkeye was the last and we were able to get his covers from fights/tokens and level a bit - then sell for HP. Do we know if that is going to be possible again here. To the OP, I think having a full refund for MMags would result in the same gaming of the system; so not happening.

GrumpySmurf1002

user311 wrote:

It has been a while I think since a 2* was tweaked. IRC MHawkeye was the last and we were able to get his covers from fights/tokens and level a bit - then sell for HP. Do we know if that is going to be possible again here. To the OP, I think having a full refund for MMags would result in the same gaming of the system; so not happening.

It hasn't been confirmed, but I would be surprised if the refund system were not put in place for one any of them.