Never again D3

tanis3303

@andronite: Fair enough, it was a poor choice of words. I was angry and feeling cheated. Be glad I didn't post immediately and gave myself a few hours to even out, or it would have just been a post of giant middle fingers and pictures of poo

@babino: I'm not against character balance. In fact, I begrudgingly admit that Thor was OP. I cheered to the heavens when Sentry was put down, he was 100% worse than Thor ever was. Spidey too, although on both him and Sentry they went too far IMO. Thor isn't quite as bad, and had this been the characters power set from the start, she'd still have been a good and sought after character. However, I never would have spent money on her. I would have done what I'm doing with the other 4*s and slowly picking up covers for them as I enjoy the rest of the game. The fact that they didn't properly test a character before releasing it isn't my fault, that's their job. Letting people pay for something, even if it is overpowered, and then taking it away is a shady business practice.

I've been giving it some more thought, and the more I think about it, this probably is ultimately good for the overall health of the game, especially the PvP environment. I think a lot of the reason I'm so irritated is because the Goddess has made PvE playable for me again. If they do something to address the fact that the scaling there is so tinykitty ridiculous, I'm like 70% less angry. I tried some of these battles without Thor tonight in Florida and got my **** kicked all over the place. My Ares node in Florida (you know the one, I forget the name, but the hard one) STARTED at level 270. When 1* and 2* characters get scaled to that level, and you bring in your own lvl 270 characters, it is NOT a fair fight. Those lower rarity characters were never meant to see levels that high, and when they do they are grossly overpowered, even compared to xforce and the current iteration of Thor. It's fine for a clear evey 8 hours, but at the end when your choices are either grind that insane battle and 4 more just like it 5-6 times or lose any shot at placing in the event, it's extremely demotivating. Deal with this, and I'm much more willing to accept the changes.

Arondite

Dartmaster01 wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Sorry, but it's not fraud either. Again, Fraud requires an action be criminal in nature which D3 is not guilty of.

The changes to Thor Goddess are things that the game has shown D3 to be problematic. Usage statistics, win rates, average game length - all these are statistics that D3 has access to which we do not. These things obviously told D3 a tale, and that tale was that something needed to be done about D3. Fixing a problem isn't fraud.

Further, Fraud requires intent. Do you really think it was D3's intent to harm their customers? In cases of Fraud, once you've shown your hand you can no longer deceive the same target. Do you think it is D3's plan to steal a few hundred dollars at once from each member of a portion of their spending customer base, never to receive their compensation again? Keep in mind, this would preclude receiving similar income from said players for the forseeable future every few weeks when a new and powerful character is released.

No. I tell you, if they knowingly stepped on this many toes and created this much noise, they did it because they truly believe it is for the good of the game. Are they right? Time will tell. Maybe not. But are they fraudsters? Hell no, and you should literally be ashamed of yourself for positing otherwise.

Did they do it in the best interest of the game? I would hope so. I don't care if it's their plan or not, they are definitely stealing money from people who just bought these covers. I'm also sure that you can commit a crime unintentionally. Fraud or not, Ignorance of the law is not an argument. Just because you don't think you're committing a crime doesn't mean you aren't.

It feels very intentional as always and they sure don't care to say anything otherwise. So until then............................stares at clock.........grows beard

Legally, it is not fraud.

If you're so confident, please feel free to sue them. But when you do so, I must request that you be sure to film it and post the results here - so I can laugh hysterically, of course.

You see, fraud would require they intentionally and illegally provide you misinformation. Given that characters are subject to change at D3's will and whim - and yes, that's plainly stated - no fraud was committed. They could change every character in the game into "Bag Man" tomorrow and change the name of the current events to "Kitty You, dumb customers" and they'd still have broken no laws. Part of the definition of fraud is "illegal", and you seem to have missed that part.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

Dartmaster01 wrote:

You are absolutely right! It's not robbery it's fraud.
In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. Fraud is both a civil wrong (i.e., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud and/or recover monetary compensation) and a criminal wrong (i.e., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities)

Bait and Switch is a well known fraud/scam and prosecutable with-in the U.S.

Sorry, but it's not fraud either. Again, Fraud requires an action be criminal in nature which D3 is not guilty of.

The changes to Thor Goddess are things that the game has shown D3 to be problematic. Usage statistics, win rates, average game length - all these are statistics that D3 has access to which we do not. These things obviously told D3 a tale, and that tale was that something needed to be done about D3. Fixing a problem isn't fraud.

Further, Fraud requires intent. Do you really think it was D3's intent to harm their customers? In cases of Fraud, once you've shown your hand you can no longer deceive the same target. Do you think it is D3's plan to steal a few hundred dollars at once from each member of a portion of their spending customer base, never to receive their compensation again? Keep in mind, this would preclude receiving similar income from said players for the forseeable future every few weeks when a new and powerful character is released.

No. I tell you, if they knowingly stepped on this many toes and created this much noise, they did it because they truly believe it is for the good of the game. Are they right? Time will tell. Maybe not. But are they fraudsters? Hell no, and you should literally be ashamed of yourself for positing otherwise.

While I wouldn't consider the goddess nerf fraud, it's not too unreasonable to consider the iron fist nerf as such. Roughly a week after release, plenty long enough for the whales purchase all his covers, and he's already being slapped with a nerf. The immediate reaction to his prerelease info was the op nature of his purple. Not a single person working there realized this? The people on these forums saw this immediately, but it took them a week to process this? That's absurd. The argument for fraud or at the very least a significant amount of neglect seems like reasonable conclusion. Whether or not this is enough to constitute legal action is beyond me, but I can see people claiming fraud

Dartmaster01

Arondite wrote:

Dartmaster01 wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Sorry, but it's not fraud either. Again, Fraud requires an action be criminal in nature which D3 is not guilty of.

The changes to Thor Goddess are things that the game has shown D3 to be problematic. Usage statistics, win rates, average game length - all these are statistics that D3 has access to which we do not. These things obviously told D3 a tale, and that tale was that something needed to be done about D3. Fixing a problem isn't fraud.

Further, Fraud requires intent. Do you really think it was D3's intent to harm their customers? In cases of Fraud, once you've shown your hand you can no longer deceive the same target. Do you think it is D3's plan to steal a few hundred dollars at once from each member of a portion of their spending customer base, never to receive their compensation again? Keep in mind, this would preclude receiving similar income from said players for the forseeable future every few weeks when a new and powerful character is released.

No. I tell you, if they knowingly stepped on this many toes and created this much noise, they did it because they truly believe it is for the good of the game. Are they right? Time will tell. Maybe not. But are they fraudsters? Hell no, and you should literally be ashamed of yourself for positing otherwise.

Did they do it in the best interest of the game? I would hope so. I don't care if it's their plan or not, they are definitely stealing money from people who just bought these covers. I'm also sure that you can commit a crime unintentionally. Fraud or not, Ignorance of the law is not an argument. Just because you don't think you're committing a crime doesn't mean you aren't.

It feels very intentional as always and they sure don't care to say anything otherwise. So until then............................stares at clock.........grows beard

Legally, it is not fraud.

If you're so confident, please feel free to sue them. But when you do so, I must request that you be sure to film it and post the results here - so I can laugh hysterically, of course.

You see, fraud would require they intentionally and illegally provide you misinformation. Given that characters are subject to change at D3's will and whim - and yes, that's plainly stated - no fraud was committed. They could change every character in the game into "Bag Man" tomorrow and change the name of the current events to "Kitty You, dumb customers" and they'd still have broken no laws. Part of the definition of fraud is "illegal", and you seem to have missed that part.

Ha Ha, I bet more people would play then too. Your reading comprehension is lacking, I wasn't arguing their fraud or non-fraud any longer. Merely your argument that a crime has to be intentional. I wouldn't sue anyone over this nor do I want or have I asked for any compensation of any kind over this or anything they have ever done. I have already stated several times today that I'm leaving with these changes. But don't get me wrong, it's not the changes themselves, It's lack of respect for player base in general. If they cared so much about their customers as you claim, you'd think they could waste a couple minutes address some of the major issues. Again..............stares at clock.............watches mountains erode into valleys........waits for D3

Unknown

bait-and-switch

noun

1 A fraudulent advertising claim or sales offer for a product or service that is not available or not for sale at the stated price, made with the intention of luring customers who are then offered something else or forced to spend more money to get the same thing.
2 A deception based on a false claim or enticement that proves to be disappointing.

You're right, totally nothing like that at all to sell, for real money, 4Thor covers then reduce the value of said purchases later by a LARGE margin without reasonable recompense.

GuntherBlobel

I'm curious: how many people here bought Thor covers and weren't around for the Sentry nerf? I never bought a Ragnarok cover, but I learned my lesson when he got nerfed. Since then, I've never purchased an Ability Upgrade unless willing to accept a future nerf.

For the record, I think Demiurge should not sell specific covers (just Tokens) simply because the most popular Ability Upgrades will always be the most likely to be nerfed. It can never end well. But as far as I'm concerned, both the players and the Developers are equally to blame for this **** dynamic that's been the norm for over a year now.

GuntherBlobel

bonfire01 wrote:

bait-and-switch
You're right, totally nothing like that at all to sell, for real money, 4Thor covers then reduce the value of said purchases later by a LARGE margin without reasonable recompense.

What exactly is the value of a 4* Thor cover? Is it the same as a 4* Elektra cover?

I don't like these nerfs because of what they do to people's feelings, but players shouldn't talk about "value" and "ROI" concerning Hero Points. If you read the EULA, you will see exactly how much value HP has once purchased: whatever Demiurge says it has.

TaoSpoons

Just wandering into this thread to say that the whole legal argument thing is pretty silly.

Wandering back out again.

Unknown

As I said in a different thread. I love the game, but I'm going free 2 play here on out.

In the grand scheme, the game is getting better, but many of the re-balances/nerfs were overkill and those of us who bought covers to chase the power curve ended up eating a sizable monetary loss with every balance -this was number 3 for me. The game got better in a grand sense, but at a large personal expense. The most effective way to immunize myself from this is to not put any money into the game. You can't put a price on peace of mind. As F2P, I can still enjoy the best aspects of the game and never have to be concerned with any and all changes that are made to characters.

This is the first time in my gaming life that I've encountered this bizarre situation of inverse proportionality: investing more money into the game reduced my enjoyment with the game, Conversely, putting zero money into the game maximized my enjoyment of the game.

P.S. The game should remove the ability to buy covers directly.

Arondite

bonfire01 wrote:

bait-and-switch

noun

1 A fraudulent advertising claim or sales offer for a product or service that is not available or not for sale at the stated price, made with the intention of luring customers who are then offered something else or forced to spend more money to get the same thing.
2 A deception based on a false claim or enticement that proves to be disappointing.

You're right, totally nothing like that at all to sell, for real money, 4Thor covers then reduce the value of said purchases later by a LARGE margin without reasonable recompense.

Thanks for agreeing. Glad we're on the same page.

lokiagentofhotness

To be fair I have only paid for 1 Thor cover. I have however bought HP for buying covers for XF, and most of my HP is spent on shields, roster slots, etc. It still amounts to a lot of money (for me, as I've never spent hundreds of dollars on a game before), and I did it because 4Thor made me happy and I love her and her abilities.

Should have used the money to buy an XBox or something. I heard they have packs with free games and stuff.

FYI I wouldn't consider it fraud either, but I can and will ask for my money back for the HP I JUST purchased to specifically buy 2 Iron Fist covers - it's one thing to ask for HP back for a cover that's nerfed after I used it for months, and quite another to have that character for merely one day before its value changes.

jsoetrisno

tanis3303 wrote:

First off, yes, I'm going to complain about the nerfs. Stop reading now if you've had enough of that already.

But I have that right, I'm a paying customer. Well, I was. You folks will never see another dime from me. Over the course of the first year, I spend a little here and there, mostly for roster slots, because I liked the game and I played it a lot. I had never bought a cover, because I liked chasing the carrot, it gave me something to work towards. But when the positive changes of late started to come in, I decided that I wanted to support the game a little more because it was actually getting better. When Deadpool's Daily Quest started, I was thrilled. I decided that it was time to drop some dollars in a show of support for the game, so I bought 4 covers to max out my Goddess, something I was perfectly fine waiting on till I had earned them from events or hit the lottery on tokens. And how do you reward my (and countless other customers) support? You slap us in the kitty face. It's like Rick James just showed up and ground his feet into our couch. Hundreds (at least, probably more in the thousands) of players and more importantly CUSTOMERS bought covers for that character, and you just took the value of what you sold them and made it worthless. That's borderline robbery, and I don't understand how you can expect to run a business that way. Why would I ever support your efforts if what I buy has no lasting value?

I'm still going to play your game. At the end of the day, it's still a fun time sink while I catch up on shows on Netflix or on breaks at work. But never again will you receive any money from me, because now I know that nothing I could possibly buy from you has any actual value. I'm probably done with PvE events now, because Goddess was the only thing that gave me a fighting chance against lvl 300+ Dark Avengers, and now that that has been removed, I don't see myself having a chance at placing well, so why even bother playing them at all? But that's getting into a whole other issue of AI scaling, so I'm not going to go there. I just want you folks to know that you just lost a paying customer, and I doubt very much I'm the only one. Keep this up and you're not going to have any of them left.

Well said! I'm also was a paying customer, until I realize whenever I thought I could get something good with what I pay, the next moment D3/devs/game designers of this game will just trigger-happy with the unannounced changes. This morning I woke up to continue with The Hunt progress and was surprised by the Ragnarok changes. Full of curiosity, I went to this forum and found out about the Character Updates. My first thought when reading the announcement is "All of sudden? There is no particular discussion/communication on these changes with the users in the forum beforehand...". I am really curious on how many people will react on Mmags nerf, especially to those who loved to play Mmags-Cstorm combo, where in my opinion is quite crucial for those who are still in transition from 2* -> 3* to beat some of the very challenging enemies.

Here's my story where last time I bought the hero points and spent it on Cmags covers before it got nerfed. Then after the nerf kicked in, the offer for refund with ridiculously small amount of iso points and hero points to compensate the nerf is really comical that I was only could laugh and told myself "D3/devs sure have a way to joke around with people's money."
I am currently just playing this game until all my hero points spent out, then I will just dropping this game off my priority. I also noticed with the latest R72 patch, the board AI has been getting too strong as well that I was forced to used up all my health packs so easily, might be another way from D3/devs to make a hidden change to trap people spending their money on and on.

Listen very well D3/devs of MPQ, I am willing to spend money on games, but not into this MPQ until you prove it that the game content can be made consistent and not playing out with people's emotion, especially with real money. Right now you have -1 yourself to your paying customer here.