OK, which character would prevent you from complaining ?

Unknown

Reading the troll about Cage and Fist all over the place, I'm just wondering :

WHEN WILL YOU BE SATISFIED ????

XF THOR need to be nerfed

Cage / Fist are breaking MPQ

So, what do you want really ?

We've had tons of boring or useless 3*s and even 4*s, and for once, they innovate, they are bringing characters that are challenging and risky to play with (you DON'T always win with them, even maxed).

They are slightly OP, that's true, but they seem OP because most of the other characters are useless.

They need to introduce more characters like these, and we will AT LAST enjoy roster diversity.

Trisul

I'd rather passive-aggressively complain about the people complaining about complainers.

Unknown

You can't have an ability that can't be denied on defense.

I have no problem with Luke Cage, Xforce, Loki, Hood. I'm even warming up to 4hor (she's more of an illusion than actually overpowered.)

The only character that needs balancing is IF.

5 purple AP for that kind of impact is **** stupid.

There's no way to exaggerate its power.

Unknown

Allow me to pose a question: Do you think Thor's Thunderstrike is overpowered? For twice the cost you get twice the benefit, 9 green tiles AND 2486 damage. If anything, you should be arguing for the reduction of Thor's yellow cost to 10 (or 9, how sweet would that be).

I get where they were coming from for a design element on IF's power. It does pretty much exactly 50% of Thunderstrike, so have it cost about half as much. Iron Fist is a good character, that's not in doubt. Is he decidedly OP? I doubt it. There have been feeder abilities before and there will be feeder abilities again. As a stand alone he's decent, probably top 5 of the 3* charts. Feeding to BP or XF with a color many teams simply ignore outright makes him stellar in certain lights.

I agree with the premise there should be more amazing 3*s, not less. A huge list could use obvious buffs, but a smaller list could use a gentle nudge to make them truly amazing. Make Thor's yellow cost 9, makes Cage's Yellow cost 10, up the damage on Punisher and Pyslocke, things like this to bring the 3* game up to the next level.

Trisul

Lerysh wrote:

Allow me to pose a question: Do you think Thor's Thunderstrike is overpowered? For twice the cost you get twice the benefit, 9 green tiles AND 2486 damage. If anything, you should be arguing for the reduction of Thor's yellow cost to 10 (or 9, how sweet would that be).

I get where they were coming from for a design element on IF's power. It does pretty much exactly 50% of Thunderstrike, so have it cost about half as much. Iron Fist is a good character, that's not in doubt. Is he decidedly OP? I doubt it. There have been feeder abilities before and there will be feeder abilities again. As a stand alone he's decent, probably top 5 of the 3* charts. Feeding to BP or XF with a color many teams simply ignore outright makes him stellar in certain lights.

I agree with the premise there should be more amazing 3*s, not less. A huge list could use obvious buffs, but a smaller list could use a gentle nudge to make them truly amazing. Make Thor's yellow cost 9, makes Cage's Yellow cost 10, up the damage on Punisher and Pyslocke, things like this to bring the 3* game up to the next level.

Ability A: 5 AP = 9 tiles
Ability B: 12 AP = 9 tiles + 2486 damage

A is not 50% of B. It's like 90% of B.

Are you really suggesting they buff LThor?

simonsez

arktos1971 wrote:

WHEN WILL YOU BE SATISFIED ????

Couldn't agree more. Every character is greeted with either "he sucks!!!!" or "OMG, nerf now!!!!"

Unknown

Trisul wrote:

Ability A: 5 AP = 9 tiles
Ability B: 12 AP = 9 tiles + 2486 damage

A is not 50% of B. It's like 90% of B.

Are you really suggesting they buff LThor?

Since when is 2500 damage only 10% of a power's utility? Also Ability A does 9 tiles OR ~3000 damage, hence the 50% comparison.

It's more like this;
Ability A: Does X or Y
Ability B: Does X and Y

Lidolas

I want a character who has a passive based on the opposing teams powers. Anytime they have a power (active or passive) proc, my team gains AP or something. Similar to the new Unknown character. I'd ride that train all day! Woohoo!!!!

Trisul

Lerysh wrote:

Since when is 2500 damage only 10% of a power's utility?

Consider the following:

Ability B: 12 AP = 9 tiles + 2486 damage
Ability C: 13 AP = 7141 damage

Which ability is better?

IMO, it's clearly ability B because the tile generation allows you to combo with other abilities, as well as cause cascades that feed more AP. In the same way, IF purple is a combo enabler. Imagine if it were more like this:

Ability B: 12 AP = 9 tiles + 2486 damage
Ability 10 AP = 18 tiles

Ability D > B by a landslide as long as you have something to combo with. And IF purple happens to feed one of the stronger colors in the game.

Unknown

You're problem is "character."

It would take two. I suggest a new type of release. Two simultaneous PVE's. Each the same event, but each with different rewards. Players can only choose to go after one of the new character rewards.

I would love for the premiere to have one PVE (we'll say H.A.M.M.E.R. Heroic) for Hulk Buster rewards and the other PVE (also H.A.M.M.E.R. Heroic) for World War Hulk.

The PVP afterwards would be a have two featured. Similar to the essential Magneto thread in Simulator where players can use C Mags or MMN, the PVP would let players choose WW Hulk or Hulk Buster to be their featured character, and they would only be matched up against players that chose the opposite featured character.

The MMR would actively changed. Meaning if a player had WW Hulk as their featured character and was playing against teams with Hulk Buster as their featured character; then, the same player switched to Hulk Buster being their featured character, they would face only teams with WW Hulk as their featured character.

I know some will say this would take a lot of work to set up. I reseached it extensively. I"m glad to report that I'm 100% sure that this would not create more work for me

DaveR4470

Another case in point to illustrate Trisul's point: MNMags' Polarity Shift.

All it does is change 5 tiles to blue. In a vacuum, given MNMags' 55 tile power in blue at max, that's a theoretical damage value of 825 points (= 55x3x5, which assumes you use each blue tile to create a unique 3-match with other blues). You might think that a different power that, say, placed 2 blue tiles and did 1000 damage would be a superior skill to have.

But in practice, you can usually use those 5 tiles to create match-4s or match-5s that multiply the damage, and use the blue generated to feed a maxed CStorm blue AP for Wind Storm. So in practice, firing off Polarity Shift often winds up in the end causing more like 6000 damage across all 3 enemies, plus a stun on the primary target.

In a vacuum, you'd think the guaranteed damage would be superior. In reality, you'd NEVER want Mags to change to that alternative, because of the synergies the tile generation ability creates.

SnowcaTT

OP totally right, no need to nerf four to six characters.

Twenty or so could use buffs instead, to balance things out a wee bit more.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Trisul wrote:

Ability A: 5 AP = 9 tiles
Ability B: 12 AP = 9 tiles + 2486 damage

A is not 50% of B. It's like 90% of B.

Are you really suggesting they buff LThor?

Since when is 2500 damage only 10% of a power's utility? Also Ability A does 9 tiles OR ~3000 damage, hence the 50% comparison.

It's more like this;
Ability A: Does X or Y
Ability B: Does X and Y

Where A or B is the cost:
A= X or 1.5*Y

2.4B = X + Y

babinro

onimus wrote:

You can't have an ability that can't be denied on defense.

I have no problem with Luke Cage, Xforce, Loki, Hood. I'm even warming up to 4hor (she's more of an illusion than actually overpowered.)

The only character that needs balancing is IF.

5 purple AP for that kind of impact is tinykitty stupid.

There's no way to exaggerate its power.

The more I think about it...the more I find myself in agreement with this.

Characters like Captain America and borderline game breaking when used offensively in how much value you can get out of repeated red+blue attacks. On defense the character is worthless and so everyone just sort of accepts him as 'fair'. He's also slow which helps a lot. Lady Thor is much the same way....once you enter the 'endgame' you'll quickly realize that she's a complete joke on defense whose only threatening skill is her blue. As a result, it's an easy choice to save her for last given any team composition. Cut off her blue, eat a unbuffed smite or yellow if you have to but both of these are on par if not weaker to a typical 3* skill and then finish her off.

The only point where a poor team defensively really causes a shake up is when they trivialize the game to an absurd degree. Take Patchneto. I don't think people serioulsy complained about the CHALLENGE of facing this duo in PvP. They made for a super easy hop team. Using them trivialized the game to point of tedium by removing all challenge and therefore tension/fun from the experience.

So yeah...find that balance where you can play the game in a comfortable 'zen' state of regular victories while not being so trivial that every battle is an instant foregone conclusion.
People don't want to spending health packs every match but when they do spend one they'd want it to feel earned. (Read that as: AI accumulated the AP to trigger a power. Rather than: I decided to fight against level 395 Iron Fist so taking massive damage was inevitible.)

Unknown

This game has a tendency to massively undercost color conversion abilities, probably because it might be complicated to count the number of tiles of one color before you use the ability or, in the case of Magneto's ability, you might have to actually know where to place those blue tiles. Never mind a +9 tile of one color ability usually wipes out half of the board and if you've a team that remotely makes sense that's going to be one guy downed if not the game right there. Maybe they tested Iron Fist with only woman characters. He'd even be balanced when paired up with Thor!

I don't have a problem with either Luke Cage or Iron Fist's passive conceptually but the magnitude of the passive needs to be looked at. I also think it's pretty dumb to have a special tile replaced immediately after you destroy it. The devs said they found out that players don't really like abilities like Phermone Rage or Adamantium Bones because you can't really do much about it. Well, in this case you literally can do nothing against it so didn't they learn from their lesson?

Unknown

Answer to the OP...Basically when every character has nothing special about them, they are all "balanced" to boredom, every match takes 10-15 minutes to finish due to "balance," and when I can choose different characters to use for diversity's sake so I don't get bored facing the same teams over and over even though they will be the same in terms of power, they just look different aesthically. Once that gets accomplished...

Then I will complain about how slow matches are, how hard it is to accumulate points in pvp because matches take so long, how bland powers are since they are all mediocre, how much more I have to grind in pvp just to reach progressions, due to match length and power outages since everyone is now "balanced."

Already Rumblings of how overpowered the new 4* is lol.

Round and round we go where we stop nobody knows!!!!

One added note: those of you who question the competency of the devs...they created a game that occupies a good portion of time from your lives and makes them a lot of money...what have you done with your lives lately?

NorthernPolarity

Cyclops is an example of a character that no one complained about, because, you know, he was actually balanced and had interesting mechanics.

Pylgrim

I think they crave for this character:

Mr. Ideserv Towin
After a tragic accident involving radiation or some other plot device, Ideserv developed the uncanny power to always win at everything. Now, he seeks personal validation in random match-3 games and he will not rest until he gets the wins he and only he deserves.

I Deserve to Win, ALWAYS!
Passive. If Ideserv is in your team, you always win, no matter what.Even defensively. If the opposing team also has Ideserv, both of you win, but the player quickest to create a thread on the forums complaining about everybody is playing Ideserv, wins more. After all, only YOU, the one reading this, deserves to play with Ideserv.

I Deserve to Win, QUICKLY!
Passive. If I deserv is in your team you somehow win in the first turn, no matter what. You don't even have to make a match.

I Deserve to Win, MORE!
Passive. At the end of a battle, if Ideserv is in your team, you get double rewards plus a thousand HP!

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Cyclops is an example of a character that no one complained about, because, you know, he was actually balanced and had interesting mechanics.

You just wait until it starts appearing maxed more often. He just doesn't have an ability that immediately suggest that you need to change your playstyle to defeat him, but once they see he's powerful enough, tears will be shed.

Unknown

Pylgrim wrote:

I think they crave for this character:

Mr. Ideserv Towin
After a tragic accident involving radiation or some other plot device, Ideserv developed the uncanny power to always win at everything. Now, he seeks personal validation in random match-3 games and he will not rest until he gets the wins he and only he deserves.

I Deserve to Win, ALWAYS!
Passive. If Ideserv is in your team, you always win, no matter what.Even defensively. If the opposing team also has Ideserv, both of you win, but the player quickest to create a thread on the forums complaining about everybody playing Ideserv wins more. After all, only YOU, the one reading this, deserves to play with Ideserv.

I Deserve to Win, QUICKLY!
Passive. If I deserv is in your team you somehow win in the first turn, no matter what. You don't even have to make a match.

I Deserve to Win, MORE!
Passive. At the end of a battle, if Ideserv is in your team, you get double rewards plus a thousand HP!

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Cyclops is an example of a character that no one complained about, because, you know, he was actually balanced and had interesting mechanics.

You just wait until it starts appearing maxed more often. He just doesn't have an ability that immediately suggest that you need to change your playstyle to defeat him, but once they see he's powerful enough, tears will be shed.

I would actually grind pve again for this character...even though they will nerf it to IDEservetobebalanced.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Cyclops is an example of a character that no one complained about, because, you know, he was actually balanced and had interesting mechanics.

That's an interesting point and I went back and check Cyclops' ability, which converts up to 8 TUs to red for 7 yellow AP. Maybe red isn't quite the powerhouse color black is, but it doesn't seem that different from Iron Fist at least in scope. Yet we don't hear stories about how one casting of Mutant Revolutionary ends the game. Why? Because it's not any basic tiles. It's only one specific color. For one, this prevent you from doubling up on the abilities because you sure won't find 16 TUs on any remotely sane board so even if you have infinite uses of this ability, it's going to fizzle out at some point. More importantly, though, because it's a specific color this allows you to defend against it. If you study the board carefully against an ability like Mutant Revolutionary or Technopathic Strike you can usually see where the two colors will intersect and form a massive cascade, and from this you can sometimes (depending on what matches are available) figure out what match you must make to break up the cascade.

This also gives player some control so you don't feel totally helpless against it. Note that whether the color conversion is on basic tile or any particular color doesn't increase or decrease the likelyhood of the massive cascade (both are equally capable of creating monster cascadeS), but basic tile conversion abilities cannot be defended as you've no idea what tiles will get converted, while color->color conversion you can see where the two colors will overlap and at least try to stop it. You won't always be successful but I can usually mitigate a Doombot powered Technopathic Strike down to say 2 match 3 blacks, which I think is a reasonable outcome.

Mawtful

The comparisons to Thor's Thunder Strike are more than appropriate. Each of IFoKU's "modes" is roughly equivalent to half a Thunder Strike. If IFoKU was 10 purple AP for ~4k damage and created 12 black tiles less people would be up in arms (someone would be, someone always is).

Trisul wrote:

Ability D > B by a landslide as long as you have something to combo with. And IF purple happens to feed one of the stronger colors in the game.

Added my own emphasis in bold. This is the reality. Because of the fact that Black is such a powerful colour in the current meta, people are only interested in one of the two "modes" of the ability - the mode which accelerates the popular colour. But ultimately it still proves that IFoKU is conditionally powerful. I think it's a little harsh to take it out on Iron Fist because another character is even better because of his ability.

As I've said in just about every discussion on Iron Fist already, slap the 12 Black AP threshold on his passive as well and I think he's just about fine. You would then have to build up that AP in order to create the attack tile - and the only way to guarantee that you recreate one if it gets destroyed is to hold onto that AP. If Surgical Strike is going to get you Black, Green, or Purple, then probably nothing has changed. But if SS is going to grab, say, Red (vs Thor), then there's a good argument for holding onto that black AP for a little while and letting IF's abilities deal a bit more damage + keep that attack tile guaranteed.