Luke Cage & Iron Fist passives are hurting MPQ

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  • bi0h4z4rd84
    bi0h4z4rd84 Posts: 51
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    So is antman the best against Luke cage & doom against iron fist?
  • ammenell
    ammenell Posts: 817 Critical Contributor
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    wouldnt antmans blue work well against the tiles of cage and if?
  • Monged4life
    Monged4life Posts: 420
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    Antman is indeed the best against a team of both together, since he'll gain 3 shields and 3 attack tiles from one good use of his blue.

    As for hurting MPQ, I know this is a year old thread but all they really do is highlight how weak Psylocke is... I hope she is next up for re-formatting. An equivalent always create Strike tile would be way better for her!
  • Sm0keyJ0e
    Sm0keyJ0e Posts: 730 Critical Contributor
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    Monged4life wrote:
    As for hurting MPQ, I know this is a year old thread but all they really do is highlight how weak Psylocke is... I hope she is next up for re-formatting. An equivalent always create Strike tile would be way better for her!

    No one drops a strike tile like Fist/attack or Cage/protect--I think Psylocke would be perfect for that. She just drops an automatic strike tile. Would then be a viable pair for anyone who creates attack tiles and would vault her up the 3* meta.
  • Monged4life
    Monged4life Posts: 420
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    Now I'm imagining a covered Ant Man stealing tiles from all 3 of them each turn. Brutal icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • philosorapt0r
    philosorapt0r Posts: 36 Just Dropped In
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    Ant-man is basically designed to eat cage/fist teams. Put out your special-stealing countdown, and profit as they keep replacing their tiles for you to steal again and again.
    (Now, this is a 4* counter to a 3* team, but hey, it's out there.)
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ARISE THREAD!! and live once again icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Monged4life
    Monged4life Posts: 420
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    Its a shame that with a 4* team you don't care about Cage and Fist anyway, so Antman hasn't really been seen the last couple of events even though he's boosted with the two of them...
  • JVReal
    JVReal Posts: 1,884 Chairperson of the Boards
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    You also have She-Hulk who will steal tiles, and Moonstone who will steal tiles, you have Loki that will flip the Protect, also carnage by giving attack tiles to both sides, if you match away the IF attack tile, he will not generate one because one exists for the opponent.
  • Tryke
    Tryke Posts: 320 Mover and Shaker
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    Time to join in on the necro! icon_lol.gif

    Something that happens sometimes is they have other teammate abilities that put down attack/protect tiles. In that case, you can get rid of their super tile and they won't put any down. Example: magneto used his yellow, I got rid of most of the protect tiles except for 1 of magneto's protect tiles (which are much weaker).

    If you want to do something like this on your own, you can try these:

    LC: Venom lol!
    IF: Carnage double lol!
  • firethorne
    firethorne Posts: 1,505 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I like the skills. I'm in the camp where I like things more like Hearthstone, where the solution isn't to nerf the ability, but just to have lots of other things that counter it. The enemy puts out a frost giant, no big deal, that is why you keep an assinate card. Loki and Doc Oc would sort of be the parallel.

    But, there are a few more problems why MPQ fails at this, when Hearthstone flourishes.

    1) Featured characters. When you massively boost a team, and don't boost their counter, the counter team still has a big problem. Featured boosting was initially meant to improve diversity. It does, but only from event to event, not within a single event. The obviously strong team de jour becomes the one you encounter over and over and over in that event.

    2) Retaliation and defense. By fielding a specialized team for taking out a specific opponent, you end up getting hit for more points than you win, because your counter team doesn't play well outside of a very specific set of circumstances, alongside with the AI playing some of them very poorly. It isn't like Hearthstone where there is a whole deck of other things to contend with aside from the counters.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I don't really see a problem here. You've picked out two characters with annoying automatic abilities. How are they any different than any other character with an annoying automatic ability?

    - Kamala heals the whole team every time one of her team fires a power
    - 2* Storm does AoE damage any time you hit anyone on her team with significant damage
    - Hood steals AP if there's enough tiles of that color on the board
    - Daken heals if there's enough blue on the board
    - Falcon basically just sits there boosting tiles and stealing countdowns.
    - Deadpool jumps in front and heals himself
    - etc.

    It's an ability you work around. Assess the threat and determine a course of action. There are characters specifically designed to counter the tiles - for example, She-hulk, Doc-Oc, Loki. They can turn those tiles against the enemy, and then you're even - you put the onus on the enemy to counter your threats, and since the AI is guiding them, they won't even bother. If you know you're going up against an annoying threat, bring along someone who can nullify it.

    Playing the defensive game takes longer, which is not good for the competitive environment. I get that. But it's not like the auto-tiles are breaking the game. They're pretty easy to either work around or turn to your advantage if you invest in the characters who can counter.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
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    really don't have an issue with cage, because his other powers are very expensive (i.e. easy to deny 13 yellow) and not AI friendly (rarely ever gets a second black off while tile is on board). so as a character, the protect is annoying, but I don't think its anywhere close to needing adjustment.

    fist's attack is 1) more powerful and 2) his purple is one of the best color accelerators in the game and when set up right, becomes the most ap efficient damage dealer in the game. that purple is not AI friendly as a damage dealer, but an excellent black battery. at normal/boosted levels I don't have as much issue with him, but when he's scaled up in pve to even higher levels, that tile limits who you can use. same level, cage counters fist ok, but level 326 fist (in gauntlet) isn't countered much by 166 cage (or 175 or wherever he is).

    I'm shocked that hood's passive was not included in this discussion. I think his is the most powerful passive in the game since the big damage comes from actual abilities that use ap and hood takes ap from the opponent and gives to his team on every turn. in pve, for any node with 3 characters (no goons), hood with 2 damage dealers that cover most colors is still my go-to.
  • Tagstar87
    Tagstar87 Posts: 92 Match Maker
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    AlphaNik wrote:
    They kind of... counter each other?

    Yeah, I thought that was the point when these characters were released. Weren't they released in succession, essentially to counter each other?
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
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    IF isn't bad since he has lowerish health. I just take him out first in any matches. Cage's shield is good against match damage but does almost nothing against the primary damage in the game, abilities. Cage is actually probably better for his black and yellow, hence why most cages are set as 5/3/5. Yes you can counter them too by bringing someone who steals attack or defense tiles, there are several characters that do this. I prefer to simply bring high damage characters to take IF out early. Cage doesn't worry me because I can usually deny the AI the 13 yellow it needs to fire his power and the AI can't properly use his Black power so he doesn't scare me. I know this post is old but Hood's AP or even Loki's AP scare me more than Cage and Hood is always my first target I take out, even over IF. Yes these two characters are some of the best 3* for the reasons pointed out but you can do that in every tier based on abilities (Iceman, Rulk, IMHB, Jean, etc).
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Tagstar87 wrote:
    AlphaNik wrote:
    They kind of... counter each other?

    Yeah, I thought that was the point when these characters were released. Weren't they released in succession, essentially to counter each other?

    They are teamed up in comics (or were in early 80's I guess, they are coming back or something?) - I thought they were supposed to complement each other? I still use them together all the time even un-buffed in PVP easy nodes.

    A year ago I said I think Jean-Purple was one of the best covers to purchase if you could. I love seeing all those Cage/Fists out there now! icon_e_wink.gif
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Moving to Character subforum soon
  • morph3us
    morph3us Posts: 859 Critical Contributor
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    Just a quick contextual note. Babinro originally started this thread nearly a year ago. At that stage, 3*s were still dominant, particularly boosted, and neither Ant Man, nor Jean Grey existed at that point. Health pools weren't nearly as high as they are now. So in that context, IF and Cage were way more meta warping than they are now.
  • Buret0
    Buret0 Posts: 1,591
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    morph3us wrote:
    Just a quick contextual note. Babinro originally started this thread nearly a year ago. At that stage, 3*s were still dominant, particularly boosted, and neither Ant Man, nor Jean Grey existed at that point. Health pools weren't nearly as high as they are now. So in that context, IF and Cage were way more meta warping than they are now.

    Jean is great for her blue passive against IF, I don't know why JG is 'good' against Cage. They both immediately replace their tiles on the next turn... she isn't exactly a permanent solution to their passive. Plus, her AoE damaged is reduced by the strength of the protect tile all three times.

    There have always been good answers to IF and Cage... Jean just broke IF because he is so likely to get hit by the passive.
  • Blahahah
    Blahahah Posts: 738 Critical Contributor
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    How to fight Luke Cage & Iron Fist:

    Step 1: Pick Ant-man
    Step 2: Profit

    Every turn its "Thanks for making me another (insert protect/fist tile here). I'll take it."

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