Stop Alliance Point Manipulation

Unknown

Please limit the amount of points a player takes with them once they leave one alliance for another mid season or mid event. It is frustrating when a player leaves an alliance to try and ride the coat tails of another alliance for better rewards. If you didn't get to take the your earned points with you or rewards were limited somehow I think this would help slow this practice. Also some Alliances have a multiple alliance network that they move people around throughout to "game" the system if you will for rewards.

JamieMadrox

This will never happen. It locks people in to a Group where they may not wish to be for various reasons. People need to be able to come and go as they please.

Unknown

Jamie Madrox wrote:

This will never happen. It locks people in to a Group where they may not wish to be for various reasons. People need to be able to come and go as they please.

I'm not saying they should be locked in but they shouldn't be able to take their accrued points with them. And if they join another alliance part way through they should only get a percentage of the reward. For example, if there is a seven day PVE event and you join an alliance after the the event has started you should not be eligible to receive the full rewards. The late joiner should miss out on the cover award (if the alliance qualifies for one) and get a percentage of the XP and coins. Join half way through, get 50% of the rewards.

In this scenario the alliance that had the player leave would keep the points the player had accumulated until another player took his spot.

Arondite

NVDMC wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

This will never happen. It locks people in to a Group where they may not wish to be for various reasons. People need to be able to come and go as they please.

I'm not saying they should be locked in but they shouldn't be able to take their accrued points with them. And if they join another alliance part way through they should only get a percentage of the reward. For example, if there is a seven day PVE event and you join an alliance after the the event has started you should not be eligible to receive the full rewards. The late joiner should miss out on the cover award (if the alliance qualifies for one) and get a percentage of the XP and coins. Join half way through, get 50% of the rewards.

In this scenario the alliance that had the player leave would keep the points the player had accumulated until another player took his spot.

If they don't take their points, then they're locked in. lmao.

simonsez

NVDMC wrote:

It is frustrating when a player leaves an alliance to try and ride the coat tails of another alliance for better rewards.

True, but one of the challenges of running a successful alliance, is to keep your membership happy. If your better players are leaving for a better alliance, I hate to say it, but they're not the problem. Most likely they're frustrated by the dead weight you're carrying. The way to keep your good players is to not give them a reason to leave.

MojoWild

An example of why this wouldn't be fair, let's say someone is 75% of their alliance score, and that alliance is top 1000. They have the opportunity to go to an alliance and contribute to a top 100 score. If they couldn't take their points with them, they're doing nothing to get that top 100 spot, and the alliance they left gets the benefit of points they didn't earn. Why should someone who did most if the work be penalized for switching alliances?

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

NVDMC wrote:

It is frustrating when a player leaves an alliance to try and ride the coat tails of another alliance for better rewards.

True, but one of the challenges of running a successful alliance, is to keep your membership happy. If your better players are leaving for a better alliance, I hate to say it, but they're not the problem. Most likely they're frustrated by the dead weight you're carrying. The way to keep your good players is to not give them a reason to leave.

I think not being able to take your points with you would create stronger alliances. Players would be more likely to stick with one alliance and by booting players who aren't as committed to putting in the playing time would keep alliances stocked with top performers.

Or another system that could work is a percentage based alliance reward system. Say your alliance is allocated 50,000 XP for the ranking you finish at. Reward individual players within the alliance with the percentage of XP that there event score contributed to the alliances total score. eg my alliance scores 100,000 points and I contributed 10,000 of those points, I would then get 5,000 of the XP for my contribution.

This would also work for moving around to other alliances and you can't take your points with you. You join a top alliance with 1 day left in the even you are not going to contribute a large percentage to the event total and your reward will be smaller.

Arondite

It is an awful suggestion and would likely kill the alliance portion of the game, forcing people to stay grouped with people they may grow to dislike.

Just let it go, man.

Unknown

MojoWild wrote:

An example of why this wouldn't be fair, let's say someone is 75% of their alliance score, and that alliance is top 1000. They have the opportunity to go to an alliance and contribute to a top 100 score. If they couldn't take their points with them, they're doing nothing to get that top 100 spot, and the alliance they left gets the benefit of points they didn't earn. Why should someone who did most if the work be penalized for switching alliances?

They should look to join a stronger alliance with players who play as often as they do. If you are a consistent player then the new alliance would be happy to receive a top earner.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

It is an awful suggestion and would likely kill the alliance portion of the game, forcing people to stay grouped with people they may grow to dislike.

Just let it go, man.

Quit the hyperbole, it wouldn't lock you in. with most events three to seven days long you would not miss out by leaving and joining a new alliance

Arondite

NVDMC wrote:

Arondite wrote:

It is an awful suggestion and would likely kill the alliance portion of the game, forcing people to stay grouped with people they may grow to dislike.

Just let it go, man.

Quit the hyperbole, it wouldn't lock you in. with most events three to seven days long you would not miss out by leaving and joining a new alliance

Not sure if you know this, but PvP Seasons are an event with points, and those are a month long.

Just wait a month though, right?

MojoWild

NVDMC wrote:

MojoWild wrote:

An example of why this wouldn't be fair, let's say someone is 75% of their alliance score, and that alliance is top 1000. They have the opportunity to go to an alliance and contribute to a top 100 score. If they couldn't take their points with them, they're doing nothing to get that top 100 spot, and the alliance they left gets the benefit of points they didn't earn. Why should someone who did most if the work be penalized for switching alliances?

They should look to join a stronger alliance with players who play as often as they do. If you are a consistent player then the new alliance would be happy to receive a top earner.

And you just supported my point. That's what they're doing when they leave. And again, that's why they should take their points with.

GothicKratos

Going to break this into two points here, but first, full disclosure, I'm a 2* player in a normal public Alliance - I have nothing to benefit by having the opinions I have.

NVDMC wrote:

Also some Alliances have a multiple alliance network that they move people around throughout to "game" the system if you will for rewards.

Most Alliances doing this to either;

1.) Reward the players that play the hardest by letting them have the most covers.
2.) Help their players that couldn't play optimally by setting them into a group of high scorers so they don't suffer because life happened.
3.) To help transitioners that would not normally get as many covers as they would by piggybacking off of higher scorers (because a lot of those "sister" Alliances have a group or two of transitioners).
4.) To help one of their groups break a ranking barrier and allow that group of people reap better rewards.

tl;dr: They do it to help their members. This is rarely a negative behavior. I've never heard of a player being forced to receive worse rewards so someone could get better ones. They're a team and they all help each other.

NVDMC wrote:

Please limit the amount of points a player takes with them once they leave one alliance for another mid season or mid event. It is frustrating when a player leaves an alliance to try and ride the coat tails of another alliance for better rewards.

Yeah, people that merc out at the experience of their teammates are scum, however, this is not a function of being free to come and go at their own will. Most people that merc tell their team beforehand, so they can try and replace them, so nobody suffers - if they don't that's on that guy and he's an ****. If you don't already use it, get LINE and send me a message (my username is v0geekay0v) and I'll invite you into a room of MPQ players so if this happens again, you can try and replace them.

Unknown

Couldn't you game the proposed scoring? You could just bring in players from a sister alliance, sprint to 800-900 boot them and get the next person to do the same while the guy that got booted would go back to the sister alliance and do it again...and again...and again...you would have to restrict the players ability to enter an event and distinguish between getting booted and just leaving...

Top alliances are very coordinated...that manipulation would be of epic proportions. Scoreboards would break. I say live with the lesser of two evils.

Scoregasms

Hopefully it's discussed in the Q&A and I know it's been suggested a few times in different forms, but I think having only 18 of the 20 Alliance scores count towards the event total would help to alleviate this in some way. There's always some folks who have real life stuff pop up from family, kids, work, illness, etc. Not to mention transition players who aren't able to fully contribute quite just yet.

By removing the bottom 2 from scoring, the value of a switch isn't quite as dramatic since a merc/replacement would most likely be replacing someone who is already in bottom 2 and consequently move someone contributing to the bottom 2 instead (so the delta is the only difference). Granted, it doesn't eliminate Mercs or Alliance doing wholesale changes, but if Alliances have that kind of coordination, there shouldn't be anything to stop them.

As others have said, the freedom to move is on the player and they know if they are screwing folks over or not by leaving, but in many cases, they have every right to leave as has been discussed already above. They can be either civil or a $*# * about it.

While the main reason to do 18/20 scoring is to promote Alliance flexibility and provide a safe area for transitioners/new players to strengthen their roster to contribute and give folks who need a quick break, go on vacation, be sick or what have you and not lose their alliance spot, it also has a secondary impact to dampen this point manipulation behavior as well.

Unknown

Reading this I envisioned some sort of ghost points.
When someone leaves they take their points with them but a certain number of their event/season points stay with the original alliance for 24 hours. Maybe 100% of points for the first hour, but then decays over the next day down to zero. Would give alliances time to find replacements and not screw the rest of an alliance over if 2 people jump ship in the last minutes of a season.

Truthfully this could still be abused in creative ways but if people acted rationally it would help out.

MarvelDestiny

Most everyone is saying they don't like the idea of being locked into an alliance. That's not what is being proposed. That said, a player should be penalized for abandoning his teammates in the middle of events to 'defect' to another alliance. However, leaving when no pve events are active is another story. If you are not happy with your alliance then leave, just don't expect to reap much in the way of awards when you do if you switch during an event.

And let's put it in perspective: if a player leaves during an event they lose the points/benefits for a single event. If left unchanged, multiple players are penalized throughout countless future events as players jump ship willy-nilly in a ceaseless desire to find better bedmates.

Who is getting the unfair deal here?

Arondite

MarvelDestiny wrote:

Most everyone is saying they don't like the idea of being locked into an alliance. That's not what is being proposed. That said, a player should be penalized for abandoning his teammates in the middle of events to 'defect' to another alliance. However, leaving when no pve events are active is another story. If you are not happy with your alliance then leave, just don't expect to reap much in the way of awards when you do if you switch during an event.

Again, seasons last all month long. You just have to wait the whole month to change? This is so stupid. I should expect my rewards - I earned the points for them - whether I leave between events or I'm the last 5 minutes of an event.

MarvelDestiny wrote:

And let's put it in perspective: if a player leaves during an event they lose the points/benefits for a single event. If left unchanged, multiple players are penalized throughout countless future events as players jump ship willy-nilly in a ceaseless desire to find better bedmates.

Who is getting the unfair deal here?

In this scenario? No one. If the loss of points cost you the entire alliance's position, he was carrying you to a rewards team you didn't deserve anyway and he was right to leave for an alliance more suiting of his skill set.

The fact is, a player earns points and has every right to decide where and when to allocate those. Why? Because they earned them. The points belong to that player. Not the affiliation he or she held at the time he or she earned them.

MarvelDestiny

Good point. Neither scenario is ideal but the player did earn those points. I concede that.

Is there a middle ground? What is the point of alliances if everyone is so mercenary as to constantly be on the lookout for the bigger, better deal? Why is it so important to switch to a new alliance RIGHT NOW rather than wait?

Perhaps I am missing the point. I play daily and so do half or more of my alliance members. I have been with this alliance for quite a while and we have yet to score very high yet I have not been tempted to go shopping for a new group. In addition our roster has been very stable indicating everyone is happy for the most part. If I understand the argument most in this thread have voiced we are all morons for not jumping ship to find a more active, powerful alliance. Is that the argument here?

Arondite

MarvelDestiny wrote:

Good point. Neither scenario is ideal but the player did earn those points. I concede that.

Is there a middle ground? What is the point of alliances if everyone is so mercenary as to constantly be on the lookout for the bigger, better deal? Why is it so important to switch to a new alliance RIGHT NOW rather than wait?

Perhaps I am missing the point. I play daily and so do half or more of my alliance members. I have been with this alliance for quite a while and we have yet to score very high yet I have not been tempted to go shopping for a new group. In addition our roster has been very stable indicating everyone is happy for the most part. If I understand the argument most in this thread have voiced we are all morons for not jumping ship to find a more active, powerful alliance. Is that the argument here?

No, not really. Most alliances are like yours [because] contrary to popular belief, most people are inherently good or have good tendencies. Once you find a good fit, you tend to stay. That's why there's no need for a policy like this - not only is it policing an ability that shouldn't be policed, there's also almost no need. The only people who jump around like that are, primarily, mercenaries to begin with. And when you pick up a merc, you should know what you're signing up for.

Unknown

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