Leveling 2*Hawkeye, Cap, Torch, MsMarvel.....Yay or Nay?

TLCstormz

I already have THE BEST of the 2* star characters leveled to 94 (OBW, Daken, Ares, Storm, Thor, Mags, Wolverine), but I still get my butt handed to me in the PvPs (can't ever get beyond 150 - 300 (difficulty keeps going up to 84 - 166 wall, yet points keep going down to paltry 8 - 12 points each fight)), not to mention the last battle for the 3* covers in Deadpool's event. PvE is usually doable, though. I am at Day 90, as of today.

Anyways..........is my problem the fact that I am kind of refusing to level the rest of the 2*s? I've only come to that decision, because every single thread on here full of suggestions and guides to the game say that 2* Cap, Human Torch, Ms. Marvel, and Hawkeye are NOT worth leveling up / they will be the first ones to get rid of. I have each of them fully covered, so they ARE eligible to go to level 94, but why would I do that if you all say they suck? lol.

Also, I even made a second OBW at 2/5/5, due to the advice of most on here.

What should I do?

(also, to the vets that I am hoping will give their opinion, pleeeeease keep in mind that when YOU were in my position, the game was much different, so saying the typical "lulz get bedder" or "stop whining" or "4000 for the season is e-z-mode" is not only unhelpful it's also baselessly rude)

TLCstormz

ALSO.....as stupid as it sounds, I've searched for videos of this game on YouTube and there is basically nothing in the way of a Tutorial / How To / This Is How You Win. lol. I've also seen people on here say to folks who were complaining about the game being unfair or too hard "maybe you need to watch some videos on how to play new lololol."

This is my very first Match-3 game, so I literally DID go onto YouTube thinking that I could find some videos on how to best play this type of game and there is NOTHING. From what I saw, at least. Any suggestions or links would be helpful, if there are some commonly known ones or players on here to actually upload their videos.

Unknown

No I wouldn't look to level those guys cause you'll never use them. In theory 2* cap has some value in survival nodes because of shield return but his red's damage is so terrible who cares if you can keep reusing it?

As far as PvP goes you need to tank. Basically, at the start of the next PvP (or in shield simulator in general if you've not already got points you want to keep) suicide your roster into nodes. Assuming they start at full health retreat 3 times then on the 4th match with the same guys let them get downed (only takes a second because they are so close to death from 3 retreats). Repeat with rest of roster (less a couple of guys if you want to play in PvP at the time) then let them heal up and repeat the process if you're still seeing 166s at such a low score.

If you do that a few times you should see 2* rosters until 400 ish points, maybe a bit more. It sounds like your MMR is just out of whack and a good does of tanking will fix it.

Unknown

I would not level the rest because like you said, you already have the best. I had them all leveled up and they sat on the bench collecting dust until I sold them off to create roster space for the new 3*s. Save the ISO because one you start the 2-3 transition, you'll be needing that ISO. Especially now with the Deadpool Daily.
I wish I had found these forums first before I had decided the first one worthy of leveling up to 94 was Moonstone.

rixmith

I think that none of them will really make a difference for you in PvP. You can run Ares/OBW or Ares/Daken and they're probably as strong a defensive PvP teams as you can get for 2* range.

So it's all about PvE really. I have a full 3* roster and I still use mHawkeye in conjunction with MNMags and cStorm, so I would certainly consider leveling him. With the new Deadpool survival nodes 2* Cap might be useful if you are having trouble because you can't get rid of countdowns any other way. Marvel and Torch can provide you with an active black power which can be useful. So overall it depends on a couple of things:

Do you want to play with the character either because you like them or think their abilities would be fun? If so, level them and enjoy them.
Are you heavily ISO constrained because and you have 3*'s you could level? If so, don't level the 2*'s because eventually you'll need lots of ISO for the 3*'s.
Certainly if you've made good progress on a 3* Cap, don't level a 2* Cap

I've never regretted having a fully leveled Hawkeye and still use him. I didn't get all that much use from 2* Cap, so he was the biggest waste for me. Torch and Marvel came after my transition to 3* began, but I would have liked to have had one of them for their black power when I was a 2*. If I had to delete characters from my roster because of roster slot costs, the only one of the four I would keep would be Hawkeye.

So, lots of different things to consider... Hope that helps

IamTheBiggs

I dunno, I've been using the boosted versions of Cap, Hawkeye, and Johnny to some decent effect during the latest "Enemy of the State" story. Overall, Hawkeye isn't one that deserves great attention, but I'll bet you have fun pairing him with the likes of MNMags & GSBW. Watching his fully loaded Quick Shot ability go off is kinda exciting!

san

rixmith wrote:

I think that none of them will really make a difference for you in PvP. You can run Ares/OBW or Ares/Daken and they're probably as strong a defensive PvP teams as you can get for 2* range.

If I had a choice on what to avoid, it would be Ares/OBW over Daken any time. Even as a transitioning 3*, with some solid characters (i.e. Patch at level 153) I am cautious about entering fights with those two, as it can quickly take down my health and use up a health pack.

IamTheBiggs

san-mpq wrote:

rixmith wrote:

I think that none of them will really make a difference for you in PvP. You can run Ares/OBW or Ares/Daken and they're probably as strong a defensive PvP teams as you can get for 2* range.

If I had a choice on what to avoid, it would be Ares/OBW over Daken any time. Even as a transitioning 3*, with some solid characters (i.e. Patch at level 153) I am cautious about entering fights with those two, as it can quickly take down my health and use up a health pack.

Good point on that. I will still jump in on those, with OBW as my first target, while absorbing and as my primary focus. Her can get kinda annoying, but keep to the plan and you usually can get through them just fine.

Sweetsawce

bonfire01 wrote:

No I wouldn't look to level those guys cause you'll never use them. In theory 2* cap has some value in survival nodes because of shield return but his red's damage is so terrible who cares if you can keep reusing it?

As far as PvP goes you need to tank. Basically, at the start of the next PvP (or in shield simulator in general if you've not already got points you want to keep) suicide your roster into nodes. Assuming they start at full health retreat 3 times then on the 4th match with the same guys let them get downed (only takes a second because they are so close to death from 3 retreats). Repeat with rest of roster (less a couple of guys if you want to play in PvP at the time) then let them heal up and repeat the process if you're still seeing 166s at such a low score.

If you do that a few times you should see 2* rosters until 400 ish points, maybe a bit more. It sounds like your MMR is just out of whack and a good does of tanking will fix it.

I'm experiencing this problem too where I encounter the 166 wall around the 400 point mark. How many of my lvl 94 characters do I have to down before my MMR readjusts?

san

IamTheBiggs wrote:

san-mpq wrote:

rixmith wrote:

I think that none of them will really make a difference for you in PvP. You can run Ares/OBW or Ares/Daken and they're probably as strong a defensive PvP teams as you can get for 2* range.

If I had a choice on what to avoid, it would be Ares/OBW over Daken any time. Even as a transitioning 3*, with some solid characters (i.e. Patch at level 153) I am cautious about entering fights with those two, as it can quickly take down my health and use up a health pack.

Good point on that. I will still jump in on those, with OBW as my first target, while absorbing and as my primary focus. Her can get kinda annoying, but keep to the plan and you usually can get through them just fine.

I still jump in, of course. Who wouldn't when I'm using Patch that heals 400+ per turn? I'm just cautious, as the party can get out of hand quickly if not managed well, like you said. I'd think that someone whose Patch or Daken are a bit less usable might think twice, however.

TLCstormz

The OBW / Daken team of Strike Tiles + Espionage isn't that great, in the long run? A lot of people say that it is.

Unknown

Hawkeye can be useful on occasion. He works really well with Magneto or Magneto/Storm, which can come in handy for balance of power, those two deadpool daily nodes where they're all available, and in PVPs where you can't use classic Storm.

In general though, getting more 2 stars is going to do absolutely nothing to help your situation. Storm/Magneto will be your best friends ever in the 2 star to 3 star transitional period, which is going to take quite a while no matter what you do. It's a looooong process for everyone. What's going to help you more than anything else right now is joining an alliance. The extra 3 star rewards and HP (for shields mostly) is what you really need right now.

san

TLCstormz wrote:

The OBW / Daken team of Strike Tiles + Espionage isn't that great, in the long run? A lot of people say that it is.

Something that steals 3AP from all powers for 8 purple, is AMAZING. 8 purple for OBW is 2 matches if her black is at full and your opponent has at least 2 (for the steal). This can be a game changer, and also avoid a major attack power by the opponent if timed right. Until you can get Hood to x/5/x this should be the mainstay of your force.

DaveR4470

I think there's value in leveling those up, in the following general order:

1) Hawkeye -- IF you have 5 purple covers for him. You already have Mags maxed, and Hawkeye + Mags is a fun team. Mags gets his on, and judicious placement of the generated blue tiles can give you (if the board is right) two crits, which (if there are enough purples left on the board) can equate to potentially 7,576 damage (at max level) in 2 turns from Speed Shot. Use Thor to tank, and you've got a pretty good B- team. (Mags/Storm is still better, and would be your preferred B+ team, but if Storm is out of commission for some reason, Mr. Barton isn't a bad substitute.) Also, Blast/Electric Arrow aren't completely useless. Hawkeye pulled a victory from the jaws of defeat for me once by getting off some clutch stuns until his blast went off, when he was the last man standing. I wanted to hug him.

2) Cap. His utility has gone from "almost none" to "just barely worth having" with the survival nodes... but only if he's got at least 3 covers in red or blue. (Preferably both.) If that's the case, the ability to overwrite enemy special tiles is huge. And he's got a good amount of HP, so he's fairly durable. The cost: every match will be slooooooooooooow, because he takes a while to get enough color to actually fire off those abilities (pairing him with OBW to steal AP helps), and he does a disproportionately small (for a tank) amount of damage. With a maxed Cap + OBW and Daken, you'll probably never lose the Deadpool event 3* survival node. But it will take you forever to win. Worth the tradeoff, I think.

3) Johnny Human Torch. He's a delicate as a Faberge Egg, but when he's boosted -- like in the current event -- he can absolutely pour on the damage. Very situational.

I don't have any experience with Ms. Marvel, so I have no advice there. I'm sure someone else will chime in if she has any specific utility.

I said this was a general order -- but given what you said in the OP, for you I'd suggest leveling up Cap, because a maxed Cap will immediately help you in the Deadpool events. It's not as much fun as plowing through enemies with Ares like a lawnmower through a field... but it's more reliable, like a Honda Accord. And in the end, better to get the 3* cover in a dull slog than not get it at all, I think.

That's my $0.02. Hope it helps!

Zen808

If, and only if, you have the ISO to spare, Johnny and Hawkeye can help you make a climbing team. They are also good for PVE. But when you're done, always make sure you leave Ares/OBW on defense. Always.

I've never maxed 2* Cap, Ms. Marvel, or even MNMags. Saved my ISO for a second OBW and a second Ares.

As a fully 3* player with an MMR that matches me against IM35/Storm combos, I'll say that tanking is NOT necessary. In fact, when I go ahead and raise my MMR to where I start against other 94 2* teams, I can actually go further before running into the Wall. I suspect that the Wall comes in when you run out of targets in your MMR, and higher MMR opponents can be found at higher point values.

But at the end of the day, you will not regularly do well in PVP until you have some high 3*s. Don't sweat it, it is what it is. Make use of Daily Deadpool and PVE to build your 3* roster. Only commit ISO to good 3*'s (see MischiefMaker's rankings for hints). Do everything in your power to maximize how many Tokens you get. And remember it's a marathon, not a sprint.

Arondite

TLCstormz wrote:

I already have THE BEST of the 2* star characters leveled to 94 (OBW, Daken, Ares, Storm, Thor, Mags, Wolverine), but I still get my butt handed to me in the PvPs (can't ever get beyond 150 - 300 (difficulty keeps going up to 84 - 166 wall, yet points keep going down to paltry 8 - 12 points each fight)), not to mention the last battle for the 3* covers in Deadpool's event. PvE is usually doable, though. I am at Day 90, as of today.

Anyways..........is my problem the fact that I am kind of refusing to level the rest of the 2*s? I've only come to that decision, because every single thread on here full of suggestions and guides to the game say that 2* Cap, Human Torch, Ms. Marvel, and Hawkeye are NOT worth leveling up / they will be the first ones to get rid of. I have each of them fully covered, so they ARE eligible to go to level 94, but why would I do that if you all say they suck? lol.

Also, I even made a second OBW at 2/5/5, due to the advice of most on here.

What should I do?

(also, to the vets that I am hoping will give their opinion, pleeeeease keep in mind that when YOU were in my position, the game was much different, so saying the typical "lulz get bedder" or "stop whining" or "4000 for the season is e-z-mode" is not only unhelpful it's also baselessly rude)

I'm on day 120-ish so I know where you're coming from, as I was recently there. I have some very usable 3 stars now so the pvp end has gotten a lot easier.

Still, if you aren't making yourself push for 4,000 you're severely limiting yourself. I did it twice with just a 2 star roster at my back, and without the best pair (MnMag + cStorm). I just pushed with aWolverine and baby Daken, then put Ares + oBW up against tougher teams until I ran out of health packs and let them regen, rinse and repeat.

With MnMag and Storm on your side, you should hit 4K Season with ease. And I mean ease.

Of the ones you haven't leveled, Hawkeye is actually really good (but only with MnMag and Storm) for his Purple. You won't use him in regular PvP's, but you can spam him with the other two for points in Shield Sim and get up to ~1K easily.

thanos8587

the 2-3 star transition is really really long. that being said the more 2*s you have leveled the easier pve will be because you should almost always have all 3 2* powered up characters. i have leveled marvel, hawkeye, cap and torch and have 11 total 2*s capped (i have not leveled bullseye or moonstone). my cap and torch are doing work in the wave nodes currently and i like marvel for both her aoe and protect tile destruction. shes wonderful against bullseye who is always popping up in pves. the least useful is actually hawkeye imo, who is a one trick pony (speedshot). its not a bad trick when it works, but not the best.

i also believe that more characters is like having extra healthpacks, you can have an a, b and c team and maybe even a d and just keep cycling through them. it comes down to whether you want to pay for the additional roster slots to have the added luxury of having them on your roster. the key word is luxury. i personally find them useful.

as to pvps, they probably wont get the most use, unless you employ team cycling to use your lower rated teams to farm early and then cycle to your more potent teams after they get injured, which leaves you able to use healthpacks on your a team only. with a full 2* roster you should be able to hit the 300 point token and maybe the 400 point 25 hp in each pvp. you may end up finishing in the 300-350 range but thats ok. over the full season that combined with 800-900 points in simulator will get you the 10 pack for the season. im on day 115 and finished the 2* phase about a month ago.

esoxnepa

TLCstormz wrote:

(also, to the vets that I am hoping will give their opinion, pleeeeease keep in mind that when YOU were in my position, the game was much different, so saying the typical "lulz get bedder" or "stop whining" or "4000 for the season is e-z-mode" is not only unhelpful it's also baselessly rude)

What score are you seeing the 166 wall at? I'm in 3* land, and I don't see the 166 wall start until 500-550.

The major difference with the game before, was Ares/OBW was ALL you saw before "True/Healing." (After Thorverine nerf) You might have seen a couple Mags/Storms.

Are you shielding at all? With the shield cooldowns, many of the high value targets are shielding up by 8-12 hours (or more) before the end of the event, and only hopping. So if you're at your peak points, and not shielded, you are just a blueberry ripe for picking.

I'll have to see how far I can climb with only my 2*s next event, and check back. I used to be able to hit 500 with OBW/Ares, and that is probably around 400-450 under today's points. I don't know where the breakpoint is for top 100 anymore, but I know top 100 has become harder. DDQ should fill the void that PvP has left.

4000 in season should still be easy, and is an important progression to aim for.

DaveR4470

I'll second the advice that you really should try to push to 4000 each PvP season. That 10-pack makes a big difference in the 2*-3* zone. And even if you don't think so -- it's worth, in HP purchase price equivalents, about $15. Take your free $15!!!

Another piece of advice that I think a lot of people don't think about or realize: when you start a new PvP event, don't start off with your best lineup!!!!! Start with your B or C team. Switch over when you use them up, aiming to switch to your A team only when you reach a point where you're getting legitimately challenging opponents in your yellow nodes. If someone retaliates against one of your lesser teams, you'll probably make more back in YOUR retaliation node than you lost, so you come out ahead. And this preserves your best characters and health packs for when you really need them, not when you're facing the inevitable level 50 Juggernauts that pop up when you're starting up the event ladder.

thanos8587

esoxnepa wrote:

TLCstormz wrote:

(also, to the vets that I am hoping will give their opinion, pleeeeease keep in mind that when YOU were in my position, the game was much different, so saying the typical "lulz get bedder" or "stop whining" or "4000 for the season is e-z-mode" is not only unhelpful it's also baselessly rude)

What score are you seeing the 166 wall at? I'm in 3* land, and I don't see the 166 wall start until 500-550.

The major difference with the game before, was Ares/OBW was ALL you saw before "True/Healing." (After Thorverine nerf) You might have seen a couple Mags/Storms.

Are you shielding at all? With the shield cooldowns, many of the high value targets are shielding up by 8-12 hours (or more) before the end of the event, and only hopping. So if you're at your peak points, and not shielded, you are just a blueberry ripe for picking.

I'll have to see how far I can climb with only my 2*s next event, and check back. I used to be able to hit 500 with OBW/Ares, and that is probably around 400-450 under today's points. I don't know where the breakpoint is for top 100 anymore, but I know top 100 has become harder. DDQ should fill the void that PvP has left.

4000 in season should still be easy, and is an important progression to aim for.

from my current experience its uncanny that as soon as i cross 400 points, every node will begin filling with a buffed feature and double 166. i can cycle and maybe get a few lower level matches but id say 450 is really the hard break now. thats good for 125-150 standing. bear in mind i really dont spend time shielding and hopping, etc. i push to where i can go, retal when i can and land where i land. once i hit 400 i really dont much care anymore. the reward isnt worth the effort beyond that, especially with the dpq out there.

GothicKratos

Full Disclosure: I currently only have maxed 2*s and no decently covered 3*s (though I'm getting close!). So I'm talking about my experiences in events now, as a 2* player.

The Short Answer: No. They're not priority at all.

The Long Answer;

-Hawkeye: He's more of a mover and a shaker than most people give him credit for. Speed Shot (and to a much lesser degree Blast Arrow) can be pretty clutch in hard fights. If you're not using Daken or Storm, his Blue is not too shabby either, but nothing to write home about. The problem with Hawkeye is that for him to really be good, he needs other people to enable him. He plays well with 2* Magneto - I use Hawkeye with Mags/Storm a lot in The Gauntlet because they tend to be a big harder and the extra burst damage helps a lot. Out of those four, he's the best, in my opinion, but not worth investing in unless you're got a max Mags.

-Torch: He's good, but he doesn't have any really good teammates. Playing him with Daken lets him tank Black for Torch, Daken's Blue can create more Green tiles to feed Torch's abilities, and the Strike Tiles from his passive are on point with his damage over time abilities. Problem being is anyone that tanks Red/Green is better than he is, so he becomes moot, but if someone isn't tanking those colors he's only going to go one or two matches before needing health pack. Overall, he's a good character but he lacks synergy with other characters. The only place I play him is in goon nodes that generate Green AP and I use Daken/oBW/Torch - Daken face checks all the damage and heals in between, oBW checks the CD tiles in check and steals away Green AP for Torch, and Torch just does his thing and melts people. Playing him in PvP is just putting a target on your back.

-Captain America: His 2* is not good. It's not trash tier like Bagman, but he's pretty close. The only plausible way to use him is, like previously mentioned, in the DDP Survival Nodes, but there's a million better ways to do this without wasting ISO-8 on this guy. Sell him and never look back.

-Ms. Marvel: This one will be theorycraft, because mine is only partially covered and not leveled. That being said, she seems like a solid character in-of-herself, but she doesn't seem to have a whole lot of synergy going on, and she's not so **** good that she could be ran just for herself. In theory, if you max her Yellow and her Black, she should play nice with Daken and/or Wolverine, since her Yellow will normally get at least something and some cascades (even if minimal, but with great potential) and her Black will double dip on all those Strike Tiles - additionally, I am pretty sure Wolverine would tank Red for her and Daken would tank Black for her so she would be pretty safe. If she had been out before Torch, I probably would have leveled her over Torch, but I wouldn't put too much stalk in her.

TL;DR Version of Long Answer: Hawkeye; Needs a team to back him up, but he's got good DPS - personal preference. Torch; Really niche usefulness, but he's really good in that niche; personal preference. Captain America; no. Ms. Marvel; potential is there, personal preference.

And just as a last note, I don't think there's really much you can "do better" where you are, other than probably just play more effectively. Use Daken/Wolverine to climb through the seed teams, 1* guys, and partially developed 2* guys - they finish them fast and they can't retaliate against that team. Use oBW/Ares for mid-level and developed 2* teams - they should all be a cakewalk except other oBW/Ares teams (which you should probably skip unless they're worth a good amount of points) and retaliations are risky for the other guy because he could lose or you can retaliate back for more points. After that, you should be using Mags/Storm to take down reasonable 3* targets - you might get a retaliation, but if you make sure they're worth 20+ points you should come out neutral, maybe even positive, and you can try and retaliate again.

As a very last note, try not to join events right as they start - a lot of the "hardcore" players and the top Alliances join right away, so you'll end up in their brackets. Try to give it at least a few hours.