Why essentials aren't important

Hulk11

I'm gonna state why this is a pointless system. First this is only in pve, probably not prologue from what I remember. None in pvp either. So why would you need to require a character in an expanded prologue experience? It's a good question. Through gameplay, you get these essentials, so it's not exactly a cash grab, but on the face and with in game ads, it clearly comes off this way. So, why have essential characters in the game? If this really is only the point of sale, it doesn't seem like many would fall for this, is this really your biggest sale point? We all know the odds, but it's advertised so much, it comes off as the biggest sale point. Do you really think people won't spend a dime or play because essential covers don't appear in the future? That's a stretch. This is a pretty strange element as it seems to force expansion, but there has to be a real element to this rather than aka, cash grabbing. That's a fair statement, and exactly how many people would quit entirely if this left? All fair questions.

GothicKratos

All fair questions, but I'm just letting you know I'm watching this thread and your responses. Thread carefully friend.

Trisul

They want to reward players who buy roster slots. It promotes roster diversity.

NorthernPolarity

Don't you think the developers would have removed this feature if it wasn't making any money? The fact that they left it in means that they would rather deal with people complaining about not having essential characters so that they can promote roster diversity and make more money. They would obviously have removed it if it didn't matter since removing it would reduce the amount of complaints like this.

Unknown

The essential is to promote roster diversity and so that there's a reason to have more than about 5 characters in this game. Whether this makes them more or less money I do not know. You can't simply say 'well it's there so it must be a good idea' because we can't check with MPQ in a parallel universe that never had the essential feature. I like the idea behind it but all too often essential turns into your best 2 guys going 2 on 3 because the chance of getting someone useful as your essential is very low, so you don't get any real variety but D3 doesn't get any money either because the game's broken enough that going 2 on 3 is considered pretty normal (see most PvP events). I think if we're supposed to promote roster diversity, at least 2 out of the 3 characters has to be locked to a certain guy. Alternatively the roster needs to have a certain criteria filtered, like the ones applied in Deadpool daily (2* only, 1* only, 2* and 1* only) or stuff from the oddball PvP events (1+2+3* each, X-Men only, women only, etc).

DrStrange-616

Perhaps essentials are part of the process of natural selection.

Square

From the tone of this kid's locked thread earlier today, I get the feeling he's running a 1* line up (his 'strategy' is selling 3*'s for ISO). So, I would take this idea with a massive grain of salt.

Realistically, after a certain point, all the long term players have no issue with essentials, because they have one of every 3* character, sometimes two. Those people aren't going to complain.

For newer players, less entitled ones that is, seeing essentials marks a goal. I only played two PVE's where I was missing essentials; once with Psylocke, and once with Nick Fury. I wasn't angry, it just made me want to get them, and pushed to get them either through PVE progressions or in PVP. I think a lot of people would have the attitude of "I want to get it when I can," instead of, "Why is there some content on this free game I don't have access to from day one?"

Going beyond how people might approach not having essentials, I really enjoy playing them. Having Deadpool super-boosted in the last PVE was a blast. It was great fun, and I know that I earned my maxed out Deadpool, making it all the more fun. I've sold five or six Deadpool covers after I had mine maxed, for the 500 ISO. That was my strategy. Get the covers, have them all, sell the run off later. And not complain about the system because I had taken it into account in advance.

Unknown

Square wrote:

From the tone of this kid's locked thread earlier today, I get the feeling he's running a 1* line up (his 'strategy' is selling 3*'s for ISO). So, I would take this idea with a massive grain of salt.

Realistically, after a certain point, all the long term players have no issue with essentials, because they have one of every 3* character, sometimes two. Those people aren't going to complain.

For newer players, less entitled ones that is, seeing essentials marks a goal. I only played two PVE's where I was missing essentials; once with Psylocke, and once with Nick Fury. I wasn't angry, it just made me want to get them, and pushed to get them either through PVE progressions or in PVP. I think a lot of people would have the attitude of "I want to get it when I can," instead of, "Why is there some content on this free game I don't have access to from day one?"

Going beyond how people might approach not having essentials, I really enjoy playing them. Having Deadpool super-boosted in the last PVE was a blast. It was great fun, and I know that I earned my maxed out Deadpool, making it all the more fun. I've sold five or six Deadpool covers after I had mine maxed, for the 500 ISO. That was my strategy. Get the covers, have them all, sell the run off later. And not complain about the system because I had taken it into account in advance.

Just because the guy asking the question might be thinking of something else doesn't mean the question isn't valid. I've long questioned what's the point of essentials and I have everyone. They almost invariably turn into 2on3s and add very little to the game. You mentioned Deadpool but Deadpool is one of the few guys that can pull his weight. Certainly nobody would expect Cyclops at 1/1/1 or whatever to be pulling his weight in the Enemy of the State essentials, though it's not like it even matters because if you're a veteran you're used to going 2on3. Given that people probably can't just max out everyone the number of 3*s you can have that can contribute even boosted is not going to be very high, but even if you have infinite HP/iso it's hard to see someone like Psylocke contributing meaningfully for example. Essentials are obviously there to try to promote the new guy, but I don't see how winning comfortably in a 2on3 is going to make me want to level the new guy up.

scottee

Phantron wrote:

Square wrote:

From the tone of this kid's locked thread earlier today, I get the feeling he's running a 1* line up (his 'strategy' is selling 3*'s for ISO). So, I would take this idea with a massive grain of salt.

Realistically, after a certain point, all the long term players have no issue with essentials, because they have one of every 3* character, sometimes two. Those people aren't going to complain.

For newer players, less entitled ones that is, seeing essentials marks a goal. I only played two PVE's where I was missing essentials; once with Psylocke, and once with Nick Fury. I wasn't angry, it just made me want to get them, and pushed to get them either through PVE progressions or in PVP. I think a lot of people would have the attitude of "I want to get it when I can," instead of, "Why is there some content on this free game I don't have access to from day one?"

Going beyond how people might approach not having essentials, I really enjoy playing them. Having Deadpool super-boosted in the last PVE was a blast. It was great fun, and I know that I earned my maxed out Deadpool, making it all the more fun. I've sold five or six Deadpool covers after I had mine maxed, for the 500 ISO. That was my strategy. Get the covers, have them all, sell the run off later. And not complain about the system because I had taken it into account in advance.

Just because the guy asking the question might be thinking of something else doesn't mean the question isn't valid. I've long questioned what's the point of essentials and I have everyone. They almost invariably turn into 2on3s and add very little to the game. You mentioned Deadpool but Deadpool is one of the few guys that can pull his weight. Certainly nobody would expect Cyclops at 1/1/1 or whatever to be pulling his weight in the Enemy of the State essentials, though it's not like it even matters because if you're a veteran you're used to going 2on3. Given that people probably can't just max out everyone the number of 3*s you can have that can contribute even boosted is not going to be very high, but even if you have infinite HP/iso it's hard to see someone like Psylocke contributing meaningfully for example. Essentials are obviously there to try to promote the new guy, but I don't see how winning comfortably in a 2on3 is going to make me want to level the new guy up.

I don't think it's about leveling. I would bet a solid percentage of cover packs sold are new featured characters, where people are trying to get their first cover to unlock the essential. The essential nodes are perceived as necessary to be a top scorer in an event, leading to better rewards. I would bet more than 50% of impulse 10+ token packs are bought in this manner.

El Satanno

scottee wrote:

I don't think it's about leveling. I would bet a solid percentage of cover packs sold are new featured characters, where people are trying to get their first cover to unlock the essential. The essential nodes are perceived as necessary to be a top scorer in an event, leading to better rewards. I would bet more than 50% of impulse 10+ token packs are bought in this manner.

I think you're spot on here. Some time ago, there was an interview with D3 and they showed a chart that ranked cover tokens their #1 money-maker. I think it is a very good guess that essentials play a significant role in pushing those figures. Although I would also bet that if those pull odds were a little more conspicuous, the sales wouldn't be so solid...stupid **** odds...

Unknown

scottee wrote:

I don't think it's about leveling. I would bet a solid percentage of cover packs sold are new featured characters, where people are trying to get their first cover to unlock the essential. The essential nodes are perceived as necessary to be a top scorer in an event, leading to better rewards. I would bet more than 50% of impulse 10+ token packs are bought in this manner.

Sure, but I'd think part of the reason behind having essential would be 'hey you should level this guy up so he can help you win this node!', except of course we know it's more like your best 2 guys tell the essential guy to dig a hole somewhere on the ground and hide and don't get in their way. I'm quite confident doing any essential with a 1/0/0 base level 3*/4* and that's got to be at least some kind of missed opportunity I'd think.

Norrin Radd

But essentials are... Essential.

Square

Phantron wrote:

Just because the guy asking the question might be thinking of something else doesn't mean the question isn't valid. I've long questioned what's the point of essentials and I have everyone. They almost invariably turn into 2on3s and add very little to the game. You mentioned Deadpool but Deadpool is one of the few guys that can pull his weight. Certainly nobody would expect Cyclops at 1/1/1 or whatever to be pulling his weight in the Enemy of the State essentials, though it's not like it even matters because if you're a veteran you're used to going 2on3. Given that people probably can't just max out everyone the number of 3*s you can have that can contribute even boosted is not going to be very high, but even if you have infinite HP/iso it's hard to see someone like Psylocke contributing meaningfully for example. Essentials are obviously there to try to promote the new guy, but I don't see how winning comfortably in a 2on3 is going to make me want to level the new guy up.

It's a valid question, but his reasoning really isn't.

I have had essentials where a low level doesn't pull their weight, but surprisingly, Cyclops at two covers is alright.

I don't know that the goal is levelling. I assumed it was about encouraging a diverse roster.

dr tinykittylove

Phantron wrote:

scottee wrote:

I don't think it's about leveling. I would bet a solid percentage of cover packs sold are new featured characters, where people are trying to get their first cover to unlock the essential. The essential nodes are perceived as necessary to be a top scorer in an event, leading to better rewards. I would bet more than 50% of impulse 10+ token packs are bought in this manner.

Sure, but I'd think part of the reason behind having essential would be 'hey you should level this guy up so he can help you win this node!', except of course we know it's more like your best 2 guys tell the essential guy to dig a hole somewhere on the ground and hide and don't get in their way. I'm quite confident doing any essential with a 1/0/0 base level 3*/4* and that's got to be at least some kind of missed opportunity I'd think.

Sure there are lots of new character essentials that are basically 2 on 3. Same with pvp and loaners. But don't you feel having built and levelled a good character who then gets buffed makes everything so much easier? Why not reward people who build their rosters? Or we would all end up with 6 slot rosters with 3 xforces and 3 4hors and nothing else. Maybe an extra set of patch/daken/blade to grind easy pve nodes. Save iso and roster slots!

GothicKratos

I feel like I'm the only one that feels like Essentials are fine. 4* Essentials are kind of annoying, but from what I remember, all the recent ones have had at least one 3* Essential too - so yeah, you're probably not getting Top 25, but you're not completely screwed out of placement.

Basically, Essentials give the people that won the previous event an advantage, which I think it fair. Yeah, it's a bit of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer scenario, except that you could potentially have the next Essential already or you could get them from a token drop or daily resupply - small chance of course, but still there.

Unknown

I spent 15$ on game just to not have to sell 3* covers, twice when I was starting out and once when I took break and fell behind schedule in earning HP from events while they added new characters. I can tell you that if not them, I wouldn't spend a cent on game, one because the prices are insane when you live in second world country, secondly because I loathe cheating in games. That's what it basically is buying large sums of HP, like editing your characters in RPG to have max level and equipment from start. No fun for me, I want to earn them by myself. Buying slots is however acceptable for me.

Also it make sure that when you do work hard on PvE with new character, the next one you don't need to grind that much to stay in fine position, after all you are competing with only 150 people out of 1000 (or just 50 when they just released 4* previous PvE!). I don't see it much as rich get richer problem as you only need to place in t150 once (which is often doable even w/o essentials) to be able to get in and start chaining PvEs. If the required character was random, I would agree it would be problematic. But that is only case with Deadpool daily which was made for 2*->3* transitioners who collected loads of 3* covers through other means, not for freshly dinged 2*.

Scoregasms

I'll be honest, not sure if you're going for an epic troll reward or not, but I'll bite and give my opinion on the question too.

As others have stated, Essentials to me are the benefit for those who played competitively in the previous PVE to gain an advantage in the next PVE. If you're willing to put in the effort to get a placement reward for a cover, then you are rewarded with this advantage. This is especially evident when new 4* characters are released as their cover rewards are restricted even further via the placement rewards. Having said that, I've won top 2 without an essential as well, so it's still possible for folks to do well, I just think people immediately give up if they simply do not have an essential character. Granted, I think I was lucky getting Top 2, but a Top 150 finish is definitely probable.

Whether good or bad (depending on your POV of Freemium gaming practices), D3 provides players the "chance" to get the character via slightly boosted percentages in that specific event pack via HP. I guarantee you folks are buying these when it's a new character that seems even remotely worth it, even though the odds are still pretty terrible, but that's kind of the point honestly. They even provide you the exact percentage chances, obviously, they are ridiculously low and folks should know that going in. It's like complaining about not winning a scratch-off lottery simply because you paid $20 for it.

If you have a better option for them to make a profit then suggest it, I'm sure they would be all over it, but complaining about how they have set things up which very clearly displayed and transparent chances doesn't help anybody's cause (be it players or D3).

The 2v3 point is valid too, but the ability to win a 2v3 Essentials Match for points that many others are locked out is the real value here. Folks are asking for these 2v3 situations to be competitive/more fun/anything more in PVE I think are mixing PVP wants in PVE. Having a covered Featured Essential just makes that fight easier but I also agree, it may not promote a need to level said character. However, a couple nodes in a sub is not the same as an entire PVP event with a busted featured character. I also fully agree that PVP definitely needs some changes since many folks in the metagame are really just using 2 characters only, a featured character that actually helps is just a bonus (i.e. Deadpool, CMags, etc). That's a whole different question and discussion though.

Lol, sorry for the long response, but wanted to give you a thought out answer from my POV.

simonsez

Hulk11 wrote:

with in game ads, it clearly comes off this way.

I was going to downvote you out of habit, since everything you've posted in the past couple of days is complete trollish nonsense, except I've got to give it to you on this point. I have to admit, I am getting really tired of the "Recruit Cyclops!" popup.

Doc L

GothicKratos wrote:

I feel like I'm the only one that feels like Essentials are fine. 4* Essentials are kind of annoying, but from what I remember, all the recent ones have had at least one 3* Essential too - so yeah, you're probably not getting Top 25, but you're not completely screwed out of placement.

Basically, Essentials give the people that won the previous event an advantage, which I think it fair. Yeah, it's a bit of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer scenario, except that you could potentially have the next Essential already or you could get them from a token drop or daily resupply - small chance of course, but still there.

This! Exactly this, which Scoregasm also said in a few extra words. The point of essentials is to give those that do well an advantage. I know it may seem harsh if you don't have the character, but then it's only a 'new' 3* every couple of pve, the alternate ones have an older 3* (I assume the next pve essential will be Hood judging by the rewards). I would say that in the past, I've not always had the essential, but by hitting the nodes you can do on time, and with a little push 2 hours before sub-events close, I got the top 150 position that gave me the 3* reward anyway, despite my lack of 'that' character. It is easier than it was a year ago, when rewards for 3* were top 100, or even fewer if I remember correctly, despite the overall groupings still being the size they are now.

I draw the line with 4* rewards though, unless they plan to improve the distribution of those covers. I accept they should be rarer than 3*, but if in the coming year they are to be the 'norm' for the top 20% (perhaps with the influx of 4* Thor and the 'age' of X-Force, this is already the case), then top 50 out of 500 or even 1,000 in some pve-types cannot be the case. But I digress.

And for the record, I am a 97% F2P (have bought a few roster slots...), with only one character levelled to 166. Who is Iron Man... Sigh...

Unknown

My first thought was "this guy is really thinking too hard about this match 3 game," then my second thought was "I don't think there needs to be essentials but it doesn't bother me if they are in the game either so...it doesn't really matter to me one way or another."

GrumpySmurf1002

Doc L wrote:

I draw the line with 4* rewards though, unless they plan to improve the distribution of those covers. I accept they should be rarer than 3*, but if in the coming year they are to be the 'norm' for the top 20%

The top 20% has a considerably weaker roster than you're giving credit for. I'm not convinced the top 20% universally has even a 3* roster as current.

If there's 100k players, that's 20k that would have XThorce. If you assume only half (ridiculous assumption) of those would be in an alliance, that's 10k alliance players with XThorce, or about 500 alliances worth. There's no way the number is that big considering how few and far between they are at the 250ish level. I'm in a top 100 alliance that currently has zero XThorce teams. (one has XForce/Fury maxed, he's working on Thor now)

Even if you cut all of those numbers in half: 50k players, 250 alliances worth of XThorce, the numbers still doesn't jive. Even in the top 10 it's only about 50/50 a member will have it, IIRC. If I had to guess the number is around 0.5-1% of players are using the 270 twins currently, which is somewhere in the 500-1000ish range.