daibar wrote: [Couldn't we just stick to the English language equivalent and realize that we're not absoluting everything when we talk?
daibar wrote: I don't get what the benefit is in not calling the starting scaling, scaling
Trisul wrote: Bottom line: Character levels (whether directly or indirectly) DO affect PvE difficulty, so if you're 100% focused on PvE then be wise about when you level your characters.
Druss wrote: My "scaling" seems to be going through the roof at the moment Facing lv 250+ goons etc in PvE Is this because I'm using Patch & Ldaken a lot and therefore not taking any "true damage" for most nodes?
daibar wrote: Druss wrote: My "scaling" seems to be going through the roof at the moment Facing lv 250+ goons etc in PvE Is this because I'm using Patch & Ldaken a lot and therefore not taking any "true damage" for most nodes? Goon nodes' scaling seems to be a whole multiplier above other nodes because you can generally do them taking 0 damage (with a good enough roster). Community scaling on those nodes are always ridiculous, and it's not uncommon to have them cap at lvl 395 on hard subs for almost everyone. Anecdotal evidence says that by throwing sacrificial characters into PVE to die (eg like PVP tanking) you can lower your personal scaling. You could always have LDaken and Patch take a bunch of damage and prologue heal them. I vaguely heard that the amount of damage affecting scaling was taken out, but maybe that was only hearsay, or maybe they only reduced the amount of the scaling, as other people claim that using worse characters and taking damage helps their scaling.
Phantron wrote: I'm not sure how people can think the scaling does not account for your roster. There's even a patch where they say the difficulty indicator (trivial/easy/normal/hard/impossible) now accounts for your buffed character's level, and even if that's purely a cosemetic thing, there is obviously something in the background that determines "if enemy are this level compared to your level then show node as 'Hard'". Why would they not use this when they already calculate enemy level relative to your roster's strength (indicated by a patch telling us it now accounts for your buffed character levels) and not use it? There's still a significant personal scaling factor for the top performers. I have nodes went up to 360 or so when I was clearing everything down to 1, and in the final subs they're more like 250-300 because I didn't have time to grind them all down to 1. Since not all brackets are equally competitive you can sometimes get away with playing a lot less compared to 'grind down to 1' and this greatly reduces the potential scaling, but that's not something you have control over. For The Hunt which I pretty much just did the minimum 1 pass every 8 hours my nodes were incredibly easy relative to my roster. Had I played more I'm sure they'd have reached 300 but I did not, so scaling was 'low' but that's only because I played less too. Looking at the leaderboard compression thread it's quite clear whether due to luck or some form of PvE sharding people do get into very easy brackets and very easy brackets also means very easy scaling because nobody in that bracket is grinding hard, but if you happen to get into a hard bracket your scaling is going to be high too if you want to be competitive.
Colognoisseur wrote: Phantron this is not what I have experienced recently. That categorization of a node as trivial/easy/normal/hard/deadly is just a pure comparison which doesn't seem to have an effect on the increase of my levels. I only face level 395's very rarely now and only in a few nodes especially in non-Heroics. I only had one node increase to lvl 325 in Iso-8 Bortherhood and I finishes top 2 in every sub by doing two clears and grinding down to one. If you were correct my scaling should have been 395, but it wasn't. I am only a single data point but it does not correspond with what you are saying.
JCTthe3rd81 wrote: I'll post my situation and let all you guys/gals take from it what you will . So, I can say, from personal experience, that character level does seem to affect the starting levels of opponents. And from personal experience, that performance affects how much and how fast scaling goes up. (keep in mind that this from my own personal playing with 2 very different rosters).
GothicKratos wrote: The alternative is letting characters like 4* Thor, X-Force, Hood, Captain America, etc etc completely trivialize PvE.
Phantron wrote: Colognoisseur wrote: Phantron this is not what I have experienced recently. That categorization of a node as trivial/easy/normal/hard/deadly is just a pure comparison which doesn't seem to have an effect on the increase of my levels. I only face level 395's very rarely now and only in a few nodes especially in non-Heroics. I only had one node increase to lvl 325 in Iso-8 Bortherhood and I finishes top 2 in every sub by doing two clears and grinding down to one. If you were correct my scaling should have been 395, but it wasn't. I am only a single data point but it does not correspond with what you are saying. I'm not saying the node categorization has an effect on your scaling, but there's clearly something that game considers 'hard' as opposed to 'impossible' that's a function of the node's level relative to your roster so why would they even compute this stuff if it's not used? The node's difficultly rating is obviously someone's idea of how hard that node is, and the scaling factor on your enemy also determines how hard it is. Unless there are two separate group of people working on each, they'd have to be related in some way so your roster level must play a role somewhere. I think I saw some 350s during my clears and at that point it's not worth it to figure out if's worth some tricks to get it 25 levels lower. What order were you clearing them in? Because if you did the highest node first I'm pretty sure I'd neve have seen anything past 300, since I'm pretty sure the nodes go up in levels for each node cleared and I generally cleared the easiest nodes first for position trickery (if I clear highest point node first I'd have a huge lead on #1 immediately and might invite other players to chase). I think on one of the last sub where I ran of time I just clear the hardest node 5 times in a row and it never got past 250 because I didn't have enough total clears. At any rate I'm pretty sure there's some magic that involves winning a fight while taking significant damage and using a weaker team would naturally create more situations where you won a fight closely. I don't think the game lowers your scaling for losing anymore since it was too easy to fake that, and I don't think getting something from 350 to 325 is worth the effort to figure this out.
simonsez wrote: GothicKratos wrote: The alternative is letting characters like 4* Thor, X-Force, Hood, Captain America, etc etc completely trivialize PvE. No reason why this is the only alternative. You can have scaling that doesn't necessarily try to level the playing field. Sure, make it more challenging because I'm running XF/GT, but not to the point where I'm playing on an equal footing with someone that has a 2* roster. There needs to be a PvE benefit to playing hard and developing a good roster.
Trisul wrote: I'm not saying remove scaling, just that basing it off lost health % is weird and favors a really gamey kind of workaround to take advantage of. Basing it off pure win/loss from node is not THAT much better (considering tanking is a thing), but at least it's less convoluted.