Leaderboard compression

simonsez

Now that we're finally seeing 8hr refreshes in a PvE where people actually want the rewards, can we admit that the theory that 8hr refreshes wouldn't lead to logjamming at the top of the leaderboard was not-so-surprisingly wrong? Unless maybe you guys are seeing something in your brackets that I'm not...

Unknown

There's a 4000 point gap in my bracket between 1st and 10th, with a pretty even spread. What exactly is the problem supposed to be? It's not like we didn't have 8 hour refreshes before they changed it to 2.5. Is there some impending apocalypse I should know about? Should I be stocking bottled water and canned goods? 'Cause I'll do it. Seriously, I will. Okay, that's it. I'm doing it right now. BRB!

lukewin

simonsez wrote:

Now that we're finally seeing 8hr refreshes in a PvE where people actually want the rewards, can we admit that the theory that 8hr refreshes wouldn't lead to logjamming at the top of the leaderboard was not-so-surprisingly wrong? Unless maybe you guys are seeing something in your brackets that I'm not...

The lead between 1 and 10 in mine is 6966 pts

1 0
2 -408
3 -937
4 -2114
5 -2415
6 -2603
7 -3178
8 -3261
9 -4159
10 -6966

I am #2 and orbitalint is #4. I don't think the logjam is that bad. The range between 1 and 10 isn't too small. I don't care what their numbers show, I don't want the 8 hr refresh going away. Plus, it is more competitive to see people playing throughout a PVE, instead of just settling down after the first sub or two. I say that now, because I am in 2nd place, but if it changes, I'll be right behind you.

This is the 3rd PVE with the 8 hr refresh, and I don't think I had this much competition, this far into the PVE in the previous 2, and those were for Xforce Green and Thor Red covers, which I think are more desirable than Elektra Purple. I am going for the Purple, and I hope everyone else is just trying to secure Top 10 slots. That way, we can all cool down together, and just coast. Because that sounds so appealing, the likelihood of it happening is slim to none.

Unknown

I beat the 3rd place guy in the easy bracket by 30 points and lost to 1st place by 60 points, so it can be pretty crowded if the nodes are easy enough. I won hard by 500 points, so much bigger separation there because far fewer guys can do every node 6 times. Although I thought the scaling would be too low and cause logjam, apparently the nodes are harder than I thought to the rest of the world.

Unknown

My top 10:

1: 0
2: -391
3: -682
4: -936
5: -1312
6: -1389
7: -1477
8: -1619
9: -1644
10: -1644

So it's a LITTLE jammed, but not terribly so. Figure the person who plays the most perfect is the top player. That was true if it was 8h or 3h. Considering only 9 and 10 are tied, it's not that odd. Also scores are lowish, so gaps are small. 391 points is 3-4 matches difference (in the final push).

Unknown

While there is compression, if you look at the differences between players as % of total score i'm not sure how much different it is. 5 mins before the end of sub 2 in my bracket and first is 28058 and 10th is 22314. That's 5744 points difference which is 20% of first's score.

The fact that refreshes are longer means total scores will be lower and the same percentage differences represent smaller absolute numbers. I don't think it's really any different, at least not massively so.

orbitalint

lukewin wrote:

I am #2 and orbitalint is #4. I don't think the logjam is that bad. The range between 1 and 10 isn't too small. I don't care what their numbers show, I don't want the 8 hr refresh going away. Plus, it is more competitive to see people playing throughout a PVE, instead of just settling down after the first sub or two. I say that now, because I am in 2nd place, but if it changes, I'll be right behind you.

This is the 3rd PVE with the 8 hr refresh, and I don't think I had this much competition, this far into the PVE in the previous 2, and those were for Xforce Green and Thor Red covers, which I think are more desirable than Elektra Purple. I am going for the Purple, and I hope everyone else is just trying to secure Top 10 slots. That way, we can all cool down together, and just coast. Because that sounds so appealing, the likelihood of it happening is slim to none.

Luke, I'm going for top ten and if I get an Elektra spot, bonus. You saw some of that separation last night when I didn't do an optimal clear schedule to hang out with the wife. Lost a little ground to you but better than the alternative of a grumpy wife .

I love 8 hr refreshes. Doesn't make me worry about placement as much and I can live my life again around 8 hr increments. Optimal strategy has more leeway and comes down to end of sub grinds, which I feel like most forumites have the edge .

CrookedKnight

My experience has been that individual sub leaderboards are getting tighter, but there's still a consistent level of separation in the overall top ten. So it's coming down to who grinds the subs most, and the ones who do get a lasting advantage from it.

simonsez

Question to everyone who says they see pretty good spreads: are those current scores, or end-of-sub scores? If they're not end-of-sub, you can't look at them now because the people at the top were probably grinding early.

Typically in PvE, the spread between 10th and 1st is usually around 30%, give or take. At end of sub 1, I was seeing around 5%. Will probably go up as the event continues, but it's not going to be anywhere near what it usually looks like. Which means the whole thing becomes a big game of chicken; ie when's the last possible moment I can begin my grind, and still grind everything down to 1?

lukewin

simonsez wrote:

Question to everyone who says they see pretty good spreads: are those current scores, or end-of-sub scores? If they're not end-of-sub, you can't look at them now because the people at the top were probably grinding early....

End of my last sub, spread was 4259 pts, 26002 - 21743, so less than 20% spread between 1 and 10.

Unknown

My post was directly after the end of a sub.

CrookedKnight

I'm in slice 1, so subs just ended for me a minute ago.

First place: 37334
Second place: 35563
Third place: 33829
. . .
Tenth place: 29014

So it's a difference of 22% between first and tenth place.

Unknown

29,3k to 26k is mine from #1 to #10. Honestly I don't understand problem. Longer refreshes means less points overall to gain. Means much bigger slice of points is available only from grinding, and the more competition, the lesser gain you get by outgrinding others, ergo difference between players might be by percentage lower, but not by amount of nodes they cleared. And because they refresh that slow, it doesn't matter that much when you begind final grind. That is, until competition get so brutal you actually have to clear them all to 1 point, and that is 50 clears twice per day in this event.

Oldboy

Was about to post my main leaderboard points and realised CrookedKnight already did it

*waves at CrookedKnight*

Clustering in the 1st sub but usually the gap widens in 3rd sub and beyond leaving the top 5 chasing each other. Since points refresh slower, it's not surprising the point difference isnt as big as compared to 2.5hr refreshes.

simonsez

You guys are all reacting like "Of course the scores are closer together with a longer refresh", but we were shown pretty graphs that claimed this wouldn't be the case... remember when they tested the 8hr refresh in an event half of us didn't care about? I guess I should have just bumped that thread instead of starting a new one.

CrookedKnight

But there's a difference between "closer scores" and a logjam. Oldboy can confirm that the top 10 in our bracket has been reasonably stable, and that's in an event that's inherently more prone to the hardest-grinder-wins phenomenon because of the short subs.

simonsez

CrookedKnight wrote:

But there's a difference between "closer scores" and a logjam.

True, that's pretty subjective. I guess it's all about perceptions... and my perception is that normally after two sets of subs and massive grinds, I'd feel very comfortable in T10, and battling for T2, if it's a prize I want. Feels very different now. No cushion at all.

Arondite

simonsez wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

But there's a difference between "closer scores" and a logjam.

True, that's pretty subjective. I guess it's all about perceptions... and my perception is that normally after two sets of subs and massive grinds, I'd feel very comfortable in T10, and battling for T2, if it's a prize I want. Feels very different now. No cushion at all.

Cushion is still there, it just looks different. There's less points available, so the scores are shrunk. Even though the cushion is smaller, those beneath you still can't catch up any better than before because the points available to them are smaller as well.

JamieMadrox

3299 points separates me (1st) from 10th in my main.

That said, my buddy is first in his bracket by 10k over second.

Unknown

So moral of the story is: it's as wild and crazy as ever. All depends on your bracket.

lukewin

simonsez wrote:

You guys are all reacting like "Of course the scores are closer together with a longer refresh", but we were shown pretty graphs that claimed this wouldn't be the case... remember when they tested the 8hr refresh in an event half of us didn't care about? I guess I should have just bumped that thread instead of starting a new one.

That graph showed the top 500 scores overall. I'm pretty sure if they do something similar, the results would be the same. I was around the 200 mark, and I slowed down, because my bracket slowed down.

You just might have the unfortunate luck of joining a bracket / being sharded with a bunch of other grinders, who might end up in the top 500 scores overall, whereas other people might win their brackets, but not land on the graph.

I thank those that keep grinding and run away with the top spots by ridiculous amounts, for their alliance score, personal pride, whatever the reason. People like that, that keep going, ensure that there will be no plateau at the top. For me, once I've got top 2 or 10, depending on what I'm going for locked down, it's coast time, recharge for next PVE, while keeping an eye on the competition, to make sure I squash anyone's hopes of a last minute leapfrog.