enough with the nerfing talk

Unknown

4* supposed to be a lot better than 3*, unlike previous 3* who were a lot better than 4* Thoress is fine. She takes a ton of matching before she kicks **** and it's not as fool proof as sentry's ridiculous speed. You can actually lose with her and her abilities have major drawbacks if you're not careful about waiting to use them until just the right time.

Yes she's the best 4* vs other 4* but she's actually not the best 4* vs 3*/2* etc

And she's great in pve but there are like 10-20 options that also get the job done - granted facing a 395 juggs ares moonstone node, most teams will take a ton of damage but 4* are supposed to be the new high water mark so people shouldn't complain because a 2* team can't kill them or a 3* team has a harder time killing them.

There are plenty of teams that can take out 4*'s no problem but I'll leave that up to the masses to figure it out for themselves

Arondite

Yeah, now that it's been widely established that she needs to be nerfed and it's very likely the devs will nerf her, that's plenty of discussion.

We can all go about our day knowing she's gonna be nerfed, happily.

simonsez

LoreNYC wrote:

4* are supposed to be the new high water mark so people shouldn't complain because a 2* team can't kill them or a 3* team has a harder time killing them.

Thanks for some common sense.

I would also add she's pretty much awful on defense. The health is a bit annoying, but she'll seldom deal meaningful damage.

Trisul

LoreNYC wrote:

4* supposed to be a lot better than 3*, unlike previous 3* who were a lot better than 4* Thoress is fine. She takes a ton of matching before she kicks **** and it's not as fool proof as sentry's ridiculous speed. You can actually lose with her and her abilities have major drawbacks if you're not careful about waiting to use them until just the right time.

Yes she's the best 4* vs other 4* but she's actually not the best 4* vs 3*/2* etc

And she's great in pve but there are like 10-20 options that also get the job done - granted facing a 395 juggs ares moonstone node, most teams will take a ton of damage but 4* are supposed to be the new high water mark so people shouldn't complain because a 2* team can't kill them or a 3* team has a harder time killing them.

There are plenty of teams that can take out 4*'s no problem but I'll leave that up to the masses to figure it out for themselves

It's just a matter of how balanced you want the game. Some games are perfectly happy with an unbalanced system with a drastic difference between tiers. If this game was PvE-only that's one thing, but I personally would prefer more balance across the board for MPQ, as I can imagine high-level PvPers probably get bored seeing the same pair every fight.

IlDuderino

Trisul wrote:

LoreNYC wrote:

4* supposed to be a lot better than 3*, unlike previous 3* who were a lot better than 4* Thoress is fine. She takes a ton of matching before she kicks **** and it's not as fool proof as sentry's ridiculous speed. You can actually lose with her and her abilities have major drawbacks if you're not careful about waiting to use them until just the right time.

Yes she's the best 4* vs other 4* but she's actually not the best 4* vs 3*/2* etc

And she's great in pve but there are like 10-20 options that also get the job done - granted facing a 395 juggs ares moonstone node, most teams will take a ton of damage but 4* are supposed to be the new high water mark so people shouldn't complain because a 2* team can't kill them or a 3* team has a harder time killing them.

There are plenty of teams that can take out 4*'s no problem but I'll leave that up to the masses to figure it out for themselves

It's just a matter of how balanced you want the game. Some games are perfectly happy with an unbalanced system with a drastic difference between tiers. If this game was PvE-only that's one thing, but I personally would prefer more balance across the board for MPQ, as I can imagine high-level PvPers probably get bored seeing the same pair every fight.

I am hopeful that this variety will happen by the introduction of new also kick **** characters (maybe Drax the Destroyer as the next 4*?) rather than more nerfing

Unknown

LoreNYC wrote:

4* supposed to be a lot better than 3*, unlike previous 3* who were a lot better than 4* Thoress is fine. She takes a ton of matching before she kicks **** and it's not as fool proof as sentry's ridiculous speed. You can actually lose with her and her abilities have major drawbacks if you're not careful about waiting to use them until just the right time.

Yes she's the best 4* vs other 4* but she's actually not the best 4* vs 3*/2* etc

And she's great in pve but there are like 10-20 options that also get the job done - granted facing a 395 juggs ares moonstone node, most teams will take a ton of damage but 4* are supposed to be the new high water mark so people shouldn't complain because a 2* team can't kill them or a 3* team has a harder time killing them.

There are plenty of teams that can take out 4*'s no problem but I'll leave that up to the masses to figure it out for themselves

I agree 100% with LoreNYC, I had zero issues with taking out 4hor with LCap before I had enough covers to make her viable for PVP.

4*s are supposed to better than 3*s, I don't see the problem here...

Sentry on the other hand was truly broken as a character, which led to over-nerfing him into irrelevance; ala Spidey and Rags.. RIP.

rednailz

Seems to me that anytime some one is on top everyone screams for them to be nerfed.

Sentry needed to be fixed - he was ruining the game, and they nerfed him into the bagman circut! (well, not quite).

Cmags did need a nerf but what he got IMO was probably the best rework D3 has done of a charecter.

I think what's making this pop-up more nowadays is that the 4* they are releasing are support ones, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not every 4* needs to be the new standard for awesome.

I'm sure Drax is on his way, and him as a 4* seems resonable, especially since they decided SL and (LMAO) Electra are. I think there are more long outstanding high demand new charecters to add though.

dkffiv

I would much rather they spend time and effort fixing/buffing invis woman, rag, doc oc, beast, she hulk, 3* storm, Im40, spiderman, sentry, psylocke, hulk, and maybe making a 3* bullseye to help the 2* version than nerfing any of the current decent/good characters.

Unknown

I understand it can be frustrating to be stuck in a 4* wall
But the 2*-3* transition was painful as well, and no 2* can beat a full 3*
The indication that comes from this is simple, if you cant beat it, you need to work the progression until it becomes accesible (And this comes from someone that suffered it as well)
The inclusion of more 4* will force a new transition, that's all, no need to cry nerf

as for future ones, I would like to think most of them are leaders (exception being IW), of SHIELD, Guardians of Galaxy, of the Hand (although this would apply to both Elektra and Gorgon) and so on... so i'm looking forward to Iron Patriot as 4*

Spoit

Seriously, as soon as she is nerfed, the meta will change, and then people will just go back to complaining about the new spidey/mags/sentry/bagman/whatever

Dartmaster01

Agent Alex wrote:

I understand it can be frustrating to be stuck in a 4* wall
But the 2*-3* transition was painful as well, and no 2* can beat a full 3*
The indication that comes from this is simple, if you cant beat it, you need to work the progression until it becomes accesible (And this comes from someone that suffered it as well)
The inclusion of more 4* will force a new transition, that's all, no need to cry nerf

as for future ones, I would like to think most of them are leaders (exception being IW), of SHIELD, Guardians of Galaxy, of the Hand (although this would apply to both Elektra and Gorgon) and so on... so i'm looking forward to Iron Patriot as 4*

Since they said in the Q&A that they work closely with marvel and their media releases, I'm hoping to see Iron Man "Hulk Buster" as a 4* sometime in the next few months.

rednailz

dkffiv wrote:

I would much rather they spend time and effort fixing/buffing invis woman, rag, doc oc, beast, she hulk, 3* storm, Im40, spiderman, sentry, psylocke, hulk, and maybe making a 3* bullseye to help the 2* version than nerfing any of the current decent/good characters.

I don't understand why there's such a pressing need for a 3* bullseye? a 3* version of a lesser charecter that would realistically never be a 3* power, and just a carbon copy of some one originally intended to be a mid tier 2*. There is a long list of high demand NEW charecters people would love to see added. Bullseye is exactly where he should be, maybe give him 1 more power since now everyone needs 3.

What's next the 4* Yulanda?

Spoit

Dartmaster01 wrote:

Agent Alex wrote:

I understand it can be frustrating to be stuck in a 4* wall
But the 2*-3* transition was painful as well, and no 2* can beat a full 3*
The indication that comes from this is simple, if you cant beat it, you need to work the progression until it becomes accesible (And this comes from someone that suffered it as well)
The inclusion of more 4* will force a new transition, that's all, no need to cry nerf

as for future ones, I would like to think most of them are leaders (exception being IW), of SHIELD, Guardians of Galaxy, of the Hand (although this would apply to both Elektra and Gorgon) and so on... so i'm looking forward to Iron Patriot as 4*

Since they said in the Q&A that they work closely with marvel and their media releases, I'm hoping to see Iron Man "Hulk Buster" as a 4* sometime in the next few months.

Clearly is the 4* IM

Dartmaster01

Spoit wrote:

Dartmaster01 wrote:

Agent Alex wrote:

I understand it can be frustrating to be stuck in a 4* wall
But the 2*-3* transition was painful as well, and no 2* can beat a full 3*
The indication that comes from this is simple, if you cant beat it, you need to work the progression until it becomes accesible (And this comes from someone that suffered it as well)
The inclusion of more 4* will force a new transition, that's all, no need to cry nerf

as for future ones, I would like to think most of them are leaders (exception being IW), of SHIELD, Guardians of Galaxy, of the Hand (although this would apply to both Elektra and Gorgon) and so on... so i'm looking forward to Iron Patriot as 4*

Since they said in the Q&A that they work closely with marvel and their media releases, I'm hoping to see Iron Man "Hulk Buster" as a 4* sometime in the next few months.

Clearly is the 4* IM

I'm sure you are right, just wishful thinking on my part.

SnowcaTT

Agree with all here. 2* shouldn't beat 3*. 3* shouldn't regularly beat 4* - maybe occasionally with lots of boosts.

The problem isn't that some 4*'s are so powerful - it's that the other ones aren't. If you have a full 166 roster and happen to only have Elektra/IW/Dino at 270, you probably are throwing 166's out there just as often as any of those. Hopefully soon it's not just -some- of the 4*'s that are vastly better than 3*'s, it should be -most- (or all) of them.

fight4thedream

i agree that 4* should be in a class of their own, generally speaking. Of course there will end up being a spectrum with low end 4* (Elektra, the current IW), mid-tier (Fury) and high end (X-Force, 4hor) characters. [not sure where Devil Dino and SL will fit in the grand scheme of things]. It's just that currently, there are so few 4* that the power gap is quite pronounced.

the devs did say they plan on releasing a lot more 4* this year which i believe is in line with the current pacing of the game (ISO issues notwithstanding). However, looking back at the history of OP characters in the game, it does make one wonder if the devs will shoot for a rock-paper-scissors dynamic or stick to "the one above all" (Rags, Spidey) or power couple (Hood&Sentry, X-Force&4hor) power balance system. i for one hope they are moving more towards the former rather than keeping with the latter but the major issue is that there is no "affinity" system in place that would have made such an evolution far easier.

With that being said, if you considered the current 3* tier it can be argued that it has balanced itself out, so to speak. There are a large variety of characters fulfilling different functions at different ends of the power spectrum so if we were to have a pVp event with 4* characters locked out, you would definitely see a greater variety at top end play. [Off the top of my head: Patch\Hulk or Patch/Loki, Hood with LC or LT, BP with Dr. Doom or Sentry, Luke Cage and 3*Mags/Spider-Man/Human Torch] Although considering speed still reigns supreme in pVp, i imagine a lot of Patch/Hulk will probably be the go to team for shield hops.

what does the future hold? i don't know. Hopefully the devs can break the cycle of one dominant OP character/duo and provide top tier players a variety of choices and combinations for top end play. But how they will go about achieving this is beyond me. Maybe it's something that goes beyond the bounds of pVp considering that "speed" wins the day, but as we are seeing with 4hor, characters with higher HP and a killer combination of skills will be the ones to reign supreme in pVp.

Considering the lack of villains in 4* land, it would be refreshing if they released some really bad people who can stick it to those goody goodies! *cough* Apocalypse* cough* *sneeze* Carnage* *choke* The Collector*

but i've said too much! hey! ε＝ε＝Σ┛￣ー￣)┛

dkffiv

rednailz wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

I would much rather they spend time and effort fixing/buffing invis woman, rag, doc oc, beast, she hulk, 3* storm, Im40, spiderman, sentry, psylocke, hulk, and maybe making a 3* bullseye to help the 2* version than nerfing any of the current decent/good characters.

I don't understand why there's such a pressing need for a 3* bullseye? a 3* version of a lesser charecter that would realistically never be a 3* power, and just a carbon copy of some one originally intended to be a mid tier 2*. There is a long list of high demand NEW charecters people would love to see added. Bullseye is exactly where he should be, maybe give him 1 more power since now everyone needs 3.

What's next the 4* Yulanda?

There's almost no point of giving a 2* a third power, he will never be used in the end game. If effort was put in to give him a third it would need to coincide with a lazy version of him. The animations, stats, and 2 of the 3 abilities are in place, he just needs a new art asset and a third power.

rednailz

dkffiv wrote:

rednailz wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

I would much rather they spend time and effort fixing/buffing invis woman, rag, doc oc, beast, she hulk, 3* storm, Im40, spiderman, sentry, psylocke, hulk, and maybe making a 3* bullseye to help the 2* version than nerfing any of the current decent/good characters.

I don't understand why there's such a pressing need for a 3* bullseye? a 3* version of a lesser charecter that would realistically never be a 3* power, and just a carbon copy of some one originally intended to be a mid tier 2*. There is a long list of high demand NEW charecters people would love to see added. Bullseye is exactly where he should be, maybe give him 1 more power since now everyone needs 3.

What's next the 4* Yulanda?

There's almost no point of giving a 2* a third power, he will never be used in the end game. If effort was put in to give him a third it would need to coincide with a lazy version of him. The animations, stats, and 2 of the 3 abilities are in place, he just needs a new art asset and a third power.

Oh that was just me resigning to popular opinion. I don't come from the camp that everyone needs a third power - specifically dark avengers. Loki and Doom needed them for sure. IMO rags doesn't need one, but they'll give him one so he'll be more playable, and 2* daken didn't deserve one, but they gave him one which was good for players as it made him more useful.

Too many drab 3* releases as it is, I wouldn't welcome another mid tier lazy one

Nellyson

The reason we're hearing all this nerf talk is because there aren't a lot of 4 characters yet. So because of this, the same two are constantly used. Just look at all the 3 options we have. It's actually quite incredible. I sometimes have a very hard time choosing who to play. So all that needs to happen is the release of more 4 and the ability to get their covers at a better rate. With the PVP rewarding a 4 at 1K, I think it'll be easier to get the covers for them, just not the iso. Which of course they're in the process of making more iso available. So honestly, no nerf is needed until 4 land sucks and no new people are better than Sexy Thor (4hor, i just like Sexy Thor better! haha). So really, as long as the new 4 characters don't pull a I think there should be no reason to nerf anything.

Unknown

Come on guys, it's Nerf or nothing!

https://flic.kr/p/r2yTa1

Mikaveus

Nerf them. Nerf them all!