Proposal: Increase the Power Cap limit to 15.

Unknown

TLDR:

By increasing the Power Cap limit to 15, players will no longer have to worry about screwing up their 3-color characters. Players will also have to earn more covers, and are thus more likely to spend money. This will result in a win-win situation for players and developers.

With the power cap limit increased, a respec system will no longer be necessary. It is very simple to implement as well.

This change will not have any negative impact, and will ultimately benefit everyone.

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I refer to this topic, as well as a few that I have made on my own.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2307

For the longest time running, people have been requesting for a respec system. This is because for 3-color characters, they are only able to reach 13 of their 15 power limits. With this restriction in place, it is possible for players to screw up their characters, unable to max the level of a key power necessary for the character.

To make matters worse, there is no way to undo this, and a new character must be built from scratch.

My proposal to all these problems is simple. We do away with the current 13 power limit, and make every character able to hit Level 5 in every power. That way, we will never have to worry about screw ups again, EVER!

This change is also extremely easy to implement. Probably 2 lines of code at the most.

In addition, during the transition from 20 covers to 5 covers, some characters actually hit 14 powers. So going above 13 powers isn't exactly that sacrilegious.

Furthermore, THERE IS NO REASON WHY THE POWER CAP SHOULD BE AT 13, OTHER THAN AN INTENTIONAL IMPOSED RESTRICTION THAT WAS NOT LOGICAL FROM THE BEGINNING.

Why should the power cap be at 13? What purpose does it serve? From the point of view from the developer, if you want people to purchase more covers, shouldn't the limit be increased instead?

From the way I see, implementing a change like this will only benefit people, and it has no negative impact.

Thus, I implore to the developers to implement this change. Increase the Power Cap limit to 15 for 3 color characters.

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Now, I understand that some people will probably be against this. I have come up with a few counter-arguments on the points that people might raise.

Counter Arguments:

Having a 13-power limit will make people plan their build. People will end up with their own customizations for the characters. Characters should be diverse, with many different possible builds.

Then why does it not apply to 2-color characters? How many different ways can you build your 2-color characters?

Different builds can be achieved, BY OUR TEAMS. 32 characters to choose from, our team and our play style is that build we use. You need to remember, ultimately, this is NOT an MMORPG. You are NOT using a single character and stuck with him for the rest of your life. You are using a large roster, you are using a team.

In addition, those games with character building and customization all have something in common, which this game does not: a respec option. An option to undo or to change the build that you have made.

Having a 13-power limit will make people plan their build indeed. But it will also make people want to tear their hair out when they realized that they have just made a fatal mistake that they cannot undo.

If you are not that person, good for you. But you need to remember that the rest of us are actually human, and we actually do make mistakes over the course of our lives. It is possible for us to make a mistake over the building of these characters, and it will be an extremely costly one that we cannot easily rectify.

Having 3-color characters reach 15 power limit will make them even more unbalanced compared to 2-color characters.

A 3-color character indeed has more advantage in having more available skills, as well as a higher level cap than a 2-color character of the same rarity. But that does not automatically make him better. Case in point, Bagman VS Daken.

Secondly, they were already unbalanced all the way from step 1. Level 40 cap characters versus Level 230 cap characters. You want total balance? Make all characters of all rarities have the same fixed level cap, and make all of them have 3-colors. That's as close as you can get to pure balance.

In addition, there are no characters that will transition from normal to over-powered, just because the cap was raised from 13 to 15. The only way that could be possible, is if the build was **** in the first place.

Let's take a look at a few examples. Raising a Thor from 5/5/3 to 5/5/5 will not make him any more OP than he already is. Raising a Hulk from 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 to 5/5/5 will not make a game-ending change.

Matter of fact, raising the limit from 13 to 15 will not break anything in the game. No character will become overpowered this way. The only 2 exceptions that I can think of are Spider-man and Magneto, but both of them were OP to begin with, and they will be nerfed very soon.

Ultimately, this is not a change that will break the game, and throw the roster out of balance. This is a change intended to make sure that your build does not become a permanent fatal error.

This change will be difficult to implement.

This change is much easier to implement than a respec function. WAY WAY EASIER. I can count probably 2 lines of codes they need to change, and it's just the fixed values.

The only way this would be difficult to implement was if the developers intend to do absolutely nothing about the people's request for a respec.

To summarize it all:
Increasing the power cap to 15 is the most logical and viable option. It will benefit everyone.

Unknown

How about not creating the same topic in multiple forums, eh?

Unknown

Problem being is your 1st hypothetical argument. The problem is the developers themselves have already came out and made that argument. They want the diversity between characters and what not and have already made it quite clear that despite our opinions, this is a change that will not be implemented.

Nemek

mechgouki wrote:

Probably 2 lines of code at the most.

...

On topic, I like the way it is - it's another way of injecting diversity and strategic planning into a game that derives itself on smart play and strategic moves.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Problem being is your 1st hypothetical argument. The problem is the developers themselves have already came out and made that argument. They want the diversity between characters and what not and have already made it quite clear that despite our opinions, this is a change that will not be implemented.

Like I said in my statement, that is a moot point. A failed point.

2-color characters aren't diverse in any way. And you cannot possibly screw up their build.

Like I said. Failed point. You want diversity, make that change to the 2-color characters as well then.

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Problem being is your 1st hypothetical argument. The problem is the developers themselves have already came out and made that argument. They want the diversity between characters and what not and have already made it quite clear that despite our opinions, this is a change that will not be implemented.

Like I said in my statement, that is a moot point. A failed point.

2-color characters aren't diverse in any way. And you cannot possibly screw up their build.

Like I said. Failed point. You want diversity, make that change to the 2-color characters as well then.

It's the devs point not mine.

Unknown

Noted. No wonder.

Since when did the devs ever make a good point.

As if raising progressing to 2400 for rewards wasn't bad enough, they doubled the cost of shields and punish you for skipping opponents.....

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Problem being is your 1st hypothetical argument. The problem is the developers themselves have already came out and made that argument. They want the diversity between characters and what not and have already made it quite clear that despite our opinions, this is a change that will not be implemented.

Like I said in my statement, that is a moot point. A failed point.

2-color characters aren't diverse in any way. And you cannot possibly screw up their build.

Like I said. Failed point. You want diversity, make that change to the 2-color characters as well then.

2 skill characters Arr character the devs either: 1. Removed a skill for "balance reasons" 2. Didn't make a skill for balance reasons, or 3. Didn't make a skill for due to time restraints or other issues (see obw). All characters are made with the 14/15 idea. The ones with less are errors basically. Notice no new characters have come out with only 2 skills? There is a reason for that...

Unknown

They've been working on a respec system for a long time now, they're not going to throw away all that work for one of the possibly first arguments they came up with when trying to find a solution to the problem. Besides, being able to go 15/15 would give the 10/10 cover characters a huge disadvantage.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

They've been working on a respec system for a long time now, they're not going to throw away all that work for one of the possibly first arguments they came up with when trying to find a solution to the problem. Besides, being able to go 15/15 would give the 10/10 cover characters a huge disadvantage.

Gee, why didn't I ever think of that?

Incidentally, have you checked counter argument 2?

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

They've been working on a respec system for a long time now, they're not going to throw away all that work for one of the possibly first arguments they came up with when trying to find a solution to the problem. Besides, being able to go 15/15 would give the 10/10 cover characters a huge disadvantage.

Gee, why didn't I ever think of that?

Incidentally, have you checked counter argument 2?

Yes, and to be honest, I don't have a single clue what it was about because it doesn't make sense (to me at least.) I also like how you say this game is "NOT an MMORPG," but continue to compare MPQ with an MMORPG.

Edit: Okay, after reading your counter argument multiple times to finally understand it, you want the max power limit to be 15/15, but you're okay with the 10/10 characters only staying at 10 because their are other characters who will be at 15/15, so that'll be diverse enough?

Edit 2: Just to add in another point, your whole argument is pretty bad, except for that one point about the devs being able to make more money by raising it to 15/15. Regardless of this, any suggestion, good or bad, is a contribution in making MPQ a better game, thanks.

Unknown

They can make way more money from 13 power cap.




(By charging for respecs)

ShavedDome

"This change is also extremely easy to implement. Probably 2 lines of code at the most."

No offense but do you realize how ignorant this sounds. Unless you have worked on the game you have no idea how many areas would be effected. And yes I have spenty many hours and a lot of real $$ on the game.

Also get really tired of those who want to slam the devs every chance they get when those devs have poured their energy into the game and are so much more invested then any of us.

As a developer for more than 25 years I can tell you the "devs" aren't deciding the majority if any of the changes we all have such a problem with, product managers are. Big difference.

Unknown

ShavedDome wrote:

"This change is also extremely easy to implement. Probably 2 lines of code at the most."

No offense but do you realize how ignorant this sounds. Unless you have worked on the game you have no idea how many areas would be effected. And yes I have spenty many hours and a lot of real $$ on the game.

Also get really tired of those who want to slam the devs every chance they get when those devs have poured their energy into the game and are so much more invested then any of us.

As a developer for more than 25 years I can tell you the "devs" aren't deciding the majority if any of the changes we all have such a problem with, product managers are. Big difference.

I agree with your statement for the most part but I think when players speak on the forums it's obvious most do not know how the "behind the scenes" really works. My point being that the term "dev" is typically used to refer to most of the behind the scenes people in general and not specifically just the actual developers.

ShavedDome

Then just D3 would be more appropriate. Also 2 less letters.

Sorry if abrupt but it seems like it is always the same in every game nowadays where people are always flaming the devs to the point where you can't blame them for never wanting to come into the forums. It then just results in what could be a great channel for communication s being closed. Which just hurts everybody.

Sorry, didn't mean to sidetrack your thread.

Unknown

ShavedDome wrote:

Then just D3 would be more appropriate. Also 2 less letters.

Sorry if abrupt but it seems like it is always the same in every game nowadays where people are always flaming the devs to the point where you can't blame them for never wanting to come into the forums. It then just results in what could be a great channel for communication s being closed. Which just hurts everybody.

Sorry, didn't mean to sidetrack your thread.

It's like this in a lot of threads, especially the ones geared towards a younger audience. No matter what the devs do, the loudest voices are always from those who disapprove of change. I always appreciate what the devs do, but most people seem to think that the devs are always against the players. It makes me sad

Spoit

GT-47LM wrote:

ShavedDome wrote:

Then just D3 would be more appropriate. Also 2 less letters.

Sorry if abrupt but it seems like it is always the same in every game nowadays where people are always flaming the devs to the point where you can't blame them for never wanting to come into the forums. It then just results in what could be a great channel for communication s being closed. Which just hurts everybody.

Sorry, didn't mean to sidetrack your thread.

It's like this in a lot of threads, especially the ones geared towards a younger audience. No matter what the devs do, the loudest voices are always from those who disapprove of change. I always appreciate what the devs do, but most people seem to think that the devs are always against the players. It makes me sad

On the other hand, there are people who always think that the devs can do no wrong.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

Edit: Okay, after reading your counter argument multiple times to finally understand it, you want the max power limit to be 15/15, but you're okay with the 10/10 characters only staying at 10 because their are other characters who will be at 15/15, so that'll be diverse enough?

I don't think you understand what I meant. My first example, just because a character has 3 colors doesn't necessarily mean he will be better than 2-color characters. My example and case in point, Bagman and Daken. And previously, Ragnarok top most 3-color characters despite being only 2 color, until the nerf at least.

Secondly, I'm pointing out that 3 color characters already have the advantage of a higher level cap, having 2 more power levels which do not further increase that cap will NOT make it more unbalanced than it already is.

Thirdly, the idea of diversity is to have different builds and different combinations. How many different builds do you think you can squeeze out for Ragnarok? The point is that for all 2-color characters, the end build is ALWAYS 5/5. There is only 1 build for 2-color characters. The whole "we want diversity" argument is out the window.

Having 2-color characters with only a single build, while forcing 3-color characters to have build limitations, just completely make the thing unfair.

Fourth point. You said 2 color characters have disadvantage over 3-color characters. Well, 2* star characters also have disadvantage over 3 stars. 1 star characters have disadvantage over 2 star.

My point? Everyone is unbalanced to begin with. You want pure balance, make everyone 3 colors, everyone have the same level cap. That's as close as pure balance as you will get.

GT-47LM wrote:

Edit 2: Just to add in another point, your whole argument is pretty bad, except for that one point about the devs being able to make more money by raising it to 15/15. Regardless of this, any suggestion, good or bad, is a contribution in making MPQ a better game, thanks.

Oh yes, my argument is bad, but you are simply unable to discuss and talk about exactly why. That makes perfect sense.

Unknown

Realistically, since there are rarely any interesting options for character builds, whether the cap is 13 or 15 really doesn't matter. For example almost everyone have Ares as 4/4/5. You can simply consider 4/4/5 as who Ares is, and since everyone has 4/4/5 Ares it's no different than if everyone has 5/5/5 Ares so you might as well leave it alone. I guess you can also argue since there's no difference then why not make everyone able to hit 5/5/5, but then you'd also have to rebalance the guys who only have 2 powers (they'd be even weaker relatively), though if 5/5/5 become a common thing, then you can easily go back and add a 3rd power to the 2 power guys and it would always work out. Currently, revising 2 power characters is troublesome. Imagine Ragnarok gets a blue that is '1 AP, kills the entire enemy team at level 5 and ONLY at level 5', well, there's a lot of people who can't possibly get that if they already have at least 9 covers in Ragnarok even though it'd be a no brainer to take this power to level 5.

Unknown

Phantron, you also have to consider the people who screwed up their builds. What about the people who did their builds wrong before they realized there was a power cap? Or before a bombshell nerf was dropped on them.

A 5/5/5 Ares might not be that different from a 4/4/5. But it will make a difference for those who screwed up their builds and went 5/5/3.

Ideally, my aim is to make a change that will ultimately result in no one ever having to bang their heads on the wall realizing they just made a mistake in their builds, without breaking the current game.

A respec option is most ideal of course. But considering the Devs, or AHEM, d3 have absolutely and utterly refused to do anything worth a damn about it, apart from giving us a few updates where they have explicitly expressed that they will give no promises.

Considering the fact that a respec system will probably, NOT BE IMPLEMENTED ANYWHERE IN THIS LIFETIME, raising the power cap limit to 15 is probably the best option for making sure that no one will be screwed in the **** for gimping their build.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Realistically, since there are rarely any interesting options for character builds, whether the cap is 13 or 15 really doesn't matter. For example almost everyone have Ares as 4/4/5. You can simply consider 4/4/5 as who Ares is, and since everyone has 4/4/5 Ares it's no different than if everyone has 5/5/5 Ares so you might as well leave it alone. I guess you can also argue since there's no difference then why not make everyone able to hit 5/5/5, but then you'd also have to rebalance the guys who only have 2 powers (they'd be even weaker relatively), though if 5/5/5 become a common thing, then you can easily go back and add a 3rd power to the 2 power guys and it would always work out. Currently, revising 2 power characters is troublesome. Imagine Ragnarok gets a blue that is '1 AP, kills the entire enemy team at level 5 and ONLY at level 5', well, there's a lot of people who can't possibly get that if they already have at least 9 covers in Ragnarok even though it'd be a no brainer to take this power to level 5.

A quick correction, everyone on the FORUMS will use a 4/4/5 ares because we all communicate and have came together in agreement on this. The other 90% of the player base could have lots of different ares.

5/5/3
3/3/5
3/5/3
4/4/5
4/5/4
5/5/4

6 possible combinations.

I'm indifferent on the matter also though. 13/15 or 15/15. Idc really.
My main concern is once again that since the devs have already made it clear that the 15/15 won't happen (which us why I'm wondering why this thread is still alive?) is that the respec feature has taken way way way way x75885 too long to establish and implement.