Scaling seems more broken than ever

simonsez

Take a look at the rosters of the top scoring alliances in Thick as Thieves. If your shard is anything like mine, it's full of people closing in on 200k with 2* rosters. Looking at my bracket at the people fighting for top 5, two of them don't have a maxed 3, and another has just a handful, with no 4s. If scaling were balanced, you'd see a proper mix of rosters at the top end, but instead, it looks way more heavily-skewed towards weak rosters than before.

It used to be these weak rosters would eventually scale themselves out, but I don't see that happening here at all. If anything, I was the one who got scaled out. You can't do a proper end grind when you've got nodes that are a potential wipe, or take 15 minutes to clear with mystique/mag.

So is this the intended paradigm now? PvP is for the Xf/GT crowd, and PvE is for everyone else? Because based on the leaderboards I'm seeing, that's pretty much how this one is turning out.

Unknown

It seems to me scaling is exceptionally low in recent events and low scaling always favor weaker rosters since if everyone has low levels, then the +40 level buff for 2* makes a much bigger difference for the weaker rosters.

tanis3303

I took 5th place in my bracket (barely) and only me and one other person in that bracket's top ten had anything above a lvl 94. 8 out of 10 of the highest scores were 2* rosters. They seem to have drawn a definitive line in the sand, PvE is for newer, 2* players, PvP is for the veteran 4* players, might as well get used to it.

SnowcaTT

tanis3303 wrote:

I took 5th place in my bracket (barely) and only me and one other person in that bracket's top ten had anything above a lvl 94. 8 out of 10 of the highest scores were 2* rosters. They seem to have drawn a definitive line in the sand, PvE is for newer, 2* players, PvP is for the veteran 4* players, might as well get used to it.

And for the transition players - eh, we didn't really want or need you guys anyway.

Maybe this is why half of all players started in the last two months - they get to transition, realize they can't get covers and can't afford roster slots, and simply quit.

Flare808

tanis3303 wrote:

I took 5th place in my bracket (barely) and only me and one other person in that bracket's top ten had anything above a lvl 94. 8 out of 10 of the highest scores were 2* rosters. They seem to have drawn a definitive line in the sand, PvE is for newer, 2* players, PvP is for the veteran 4* players, might as well get used to it.

Unfortunately, the 2 star players end up with a barely usable (2/1/2) at best character that they have to rely on tokens to finish. For most of them, StarLord will be a shiny trophy that doesn't get used much.

tanis3303

Agreed. The scaling system needs to be re-examined, any system that discourages players from leveling their characters goes against the very reasons people play rpg games...

FierceKiwi

Scaling was pretty bad this event but my Top 10 doesn't look much different from normal:
4 Guys with 200+ 4* (3 with 270s)
3 guys with maxed 3*
1 guy with various 140-110 3*
1 guy with no one leveled past 94
1 guy with only maxed 2*

Shadow

The purpose of scaling is to make it such that everyone can compete on a more or less equal footing. When nodes become deadly, that's when scaling gets out of control. I don't recall seeing that happen at all for TaT. And there were only 2 nodes that were ultra challenging. The IM35 node during the first sub and the CMags node during the final sub.

I came in top of my bracket. Of the top 5, only 5th had a relatively weak roster.
#2 is Bleah from Hatsune Miku. Roster purposely kept low level even though many characters have maxed covers.
#3 is DreadLOrd from A.T.O.M. 535 TGT level 200.
#4 is fight4thedream

I don't think scaling was the issue on this one. Just that everybody could compete so if you missed a refresh, then it would have allowed a weak roster to overtake you. It's the way PvE was meant to be. Everyone able to compete on a balanced platform. No deadly nodes.

Just because the guys with developed rosters in your bracket skipped a refresh or two and the guys with the low level rosters did not, does not make scaling the issue. No deadly nodes quite clearly means scaling was very manageable and you're barking up the wrong tree.

Unknown

I would say there is a little be over for the level scaling

Dont just factor in lv o character but also Covers

a 1 covered 40 lv 3* is no match to a fully covered 2* or even 1* ironman...

fmftint

simonsez wrote:

Take a look at the rosters of the top scoring alliances in Thick as Thieves. If your shard is anything like mine, it's full of people closing in on 200k with 2* rosters. Looking at my bracket at the people fighting for top 5, two of them don't have a maxed 3, and another has just a handful, with no 4s. If scaling were balanced, you'd see a proper mix of rosters at the top end, but instead, it looks way more heavily-skewed towards weak rosters than before.

It used to be these weak rosters would eventually scale themselves out, but I don't see that happening here at all. If anything, I was the one who got scaled out. You can't do a proper end grind when you've got nodes that are a potential wipe, or take 15 minutes to clear with mystique/mag.

So is this the intended paradigm now? PvP is for the Xf/GT crowd, and PvE is for everyone else? Because based on the leaderboards I'm seeing, that's pretty much how this one is turning out.

Now tell us the top 5 rosters in any PVP event

Unknown

When scaling is low it is obviously still possible for the people with good roster to win because if everyone can beat everything then the guy who didn't miss a refresh will probably win. However if both players play a comparable amount the lower scaling guy is going to win just because his battles take less of time which translates to an advantage over time, not to mention it is often an absolute advantage at the end because you hit a point where you can't clear all the remaining stacks in the nodes. That said you will see the non maxed guys tend to dominate because there are a lot more of them than the guys with maxed rosters, and apparently being hardcore/not sleeping has a very weak relationship to roster strength. Obviously all those 2* guys that had 200K point also barely slept the whole event too, but the difference is that they can pull 200K for the same effort while a maxed guy can probably only do 190K because there's a physical difference in how long it takes to clear the missions.

Unknown

fmftint wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Take a look at the rosters of the top scoring alliances in Thick as Thieves. If your shard is anything like mine, it's full of people closing in on 200k with 2* rosters. Looking at my bracket at the people fighting for top 5, two of them don't have a maxed 3, and another has just a handful, with no 4s. If scaling were balanced, you'd see a proper mix of rosters at the top end, but instead, it looks way more heavily-skewed towards weak rosters than before.

It used to be these weak rosters would eventually scale themselves out, but I don't see that happening here at all. If anything, I was the one who got scaled out. You can't do a proper end grind when you've got nodes that are a potential wipe, or take 15 minutes to clear with mystique/mag.

So is this the intended paradigm now? PvP is for the Xf/GT crowd, and PvE is for everyone else? Because based on the leaderboards I'm seeing, that's pretty much how this one is turning out.

Now tell us the top 5 rosters in any PVP event

People sound like it'd be a bad thing if the strongest players tend to always win competitive events, which is virtually what happens in every form of competitive event.

Unknown

I keep seeing these posts...and I look at my bracket and see 8/10 people with a 200+ X-Force.

If weak rosters didn't have a chance at earning covers in PvE, there wouldn't be any new players. Releasing 4*'s in PvE is the questionable part. Not scaling.

Unknown

I gained about 20 places in the last day only doing 4 clears so SOMEONE was getting scaled out

Zen808

FierceKiwi wrote:

Scaling was pretty bad this event but my Top 10 doesn't look much different from normal:
4 Guys with 200+ 4* (3 with 270s)
3 guys with maxed 3*
1 guy with various 140-110 3*
1 guy with no one leveled past 94
1 guy with only maxed 2*

And the guy with all 94's is cover-maxed in all the key players.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

It seems to me scaling is exceptionally low in recent events and low scaling always favor weaker rosters since if everyone has low levels, then the +40 level buff for 2* makes a much bigger difference for the weaker rosters.

I got no problem with this. If advanced rosters are going to have an advantage in pvp, I don't mind lesser rosters not being at a disadvantage in pve.

dider152

Scaling is out of control. I'm losing interest.

Arondite

Phantron wrote:

fmftint wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Take a look at the rosters of the top scoring alliances in Thick as Thieves. If your shard is anything like mine, it's full of people closing in on 200k with 2* rosters. Looking at my bracket at the people fighting for top 5, two of them don't have a maxed 3, and another has just a handful, with no 4s. If scaling were balanced, you'd see a proper mix of rosters at the top end, but instead, it looks way more heavily-skewed towards weak rosters than before.

It used to be these weak rosters would eventually scale themselves out, but I don't see that happening here at all. If anything, I was the one who got scaled out. You can't do a proper end grind when you've got nodes that are a potential wipe, or take 15 minutes to clear with mystique/mag.

So is this the intended paradigm now? PvP is for the Xf/GT crowd, and PvE is for everyone else? Because based on the leaderboards I'm seeing, that's pretty much how this one is turning out.

Now tell us the top 5 rosters in any PVP event

People sound like it'd be a bad thing if the strongest players tend to always win competitive events, which is virtually what happens in every form of competitive event.

And Pve is designed to combat that. It's not accidental and it's not wrong.

If you demand to up those 5 or 6 covers you get a week to 6/7, then just bust out your 2 stars for the event and grind like everyone else does.

Phillipes

Absolutely true. Roster diversity in this game is "just an illusion". In fact, more character you have, the more you are hurting yourself in the matter of scaling.

In what universe is node level 330 + "normal" ?
I have all characters, X-force 220 and GT 230 included. These two are raising my personal scaling.

Nodes are mostly so hard, that I dont have any other possibility to play with anyone except X-Force and GT.
In the ending TaT event, I grinded last sub for 2 hours to maintain top 5.
I was forced do play every match with those two!

Why do I have those new "shiny" character when I cannot use them? Im even afraid to level all 3* just to prevent scaling rise further!
Half of my 3* are fully covered and leveled from 40 to 80 (so cumpletely unusable). I WOULD like to level them, but it will hurt my game even more!

When I was in 2* land, I outscladed myself in the end of event, and I used every toon possible.
Now, Im forced to boost like crazy (15.000 ISO in last sub !!!!!!! ) and I could play ONLY with with X-force and GT.

This is only game I know which is harder, when you get more experienced and roster more developed.

Unknown

Roster diversity might mean something if there was better balance in this game. Currently it works out if something you can beat with your B team, your A team will probably completely destroy that node without taking meaningful damage. It also doesn't hurt that X Force has true healing. On the other hand, if a node gives problem for your A team, usually all your B team is going to do is lose terribly. Ironically, roster diversity was useful back when you can tank your scaling because ideally you want to take your B team to barely win a fight as that gets you the points and will simultaneously lower your scaling if you took enough damage. Of course, this no longer works, at least not in any replicable way, so there's no reason to do this anymore. It was actually kind of fun to take 3 random guys and pull off a crazy win and be rewarded with lower scaling, but I guess there's no way for the game to distinguish that from saying taking your B team and beat a relatively easy node and just take damage on purpose so they axed that.

Arondite

Phillipes wrote:

Absolutely true. Roster diversity in this game is "just an illusion". In fact, more character you have, the more you are hurting yourself in the matter of scaling.

In what universe is node level 330 + "normal" ?
I have all characters, X-force 220 and GT 230 included. These two are raising my personal scaling.

Nodes are mostly so hard, that I dont have any other possibility to play with anyone except X-Force and GT.
In the ending TaT event, I grinded last sub for 2 hours to maintain top 5.
I was forced do play every match with those two!

Why do I have those new "shiny" character when I cannot use them? Im even afraid to level all 3* just to prevent scaling rise further!
Half of my 3* are fully covered and leveled from 40 to 80 (so cumpletely unusable). I WOULD like to level them, but it will hurt my game even more!

When I was in 2* land, I outscladed myself in the end of event, and I used every toon possible.
Now, Im forced to boost like crazy (15.000 ISO in last sub !!!!!!! ) and I could play ONLY with with X-force and GT.

This is only game I know who is harder, when you get more experienced and roster more developed.

D3 has confirmed that just having / leveling 3 and 4 star characters doesn't make the node scale on you any faster. It's the fact that when you use those 3 and 4 stars (particularly if you're using boosts, too) you're clearing the node faster, taking less damage, and ending with a higher percentage of your maximum health. These are what makes your scaling go up. If you actually use your 2 star roster and end the game with them at like half hp, your scaling is minimally affected. If you boost GoT and XFW and take them out in 2 turns at full hp, obviously the node scales up like a beast.