You were so close, D3!

bdksni1

While the argument "it's a new 4* so everything back to what it used to be" is valid let's face the fact that 8hr refreshes should be implemented asap. Perhaps the most, and in my opinion the only, wise solution is to apply it only on certain -meaning longer- events and let 3hr timers reign on shorter ones. I mean there's no sense in doing 8hr timers on 12hr subs, neither making 3hr timers on 36hr subs or on week-long events.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

GuiltTrip wrote:

They could have it in bold in the pop-up, stating the refresh time for the event will once again by 3 hrs. It is just common sense, not rocket science.

That seems wildly unnecessary: most of the people who play this game are casuals who aren't dying to know what the next PvE refresh is: it's also a waste of screen space since they can just open the PvE, play a node, and immediately see the refresh timer: it's not like it'll affect how they join the PvE at all. Greater visibility on the forum (where people actually do care) would have been appreciated, but they didn't need to do anything more than that.

Oh please, there is plenty of room in the Star Lord pop up to warn about the refresh time change. I also checked the event rules tab, and there is no mention of the refresh time change there as well. They chose to make a pop up to say "Hey look a new character! The event starts now!" They also chose not to use the space at the bottom of the pop up to warn people that they changed the refresh back to 3 hrs.

Not everyone reads these forums every day. I found out about the changes from 2hr 24 minute to 3 Hr and the 3 hr to 8 hr refresh timers, by noticing the events were not at full points when I thought they should be. in both of those cases, it made the effort that was needed in the event easier, and I didn't lose any pts. This I didn't find out until, I was bracketed in an event, for a new character. I feel sorry for those that did one clear, then went to sleep, only to find out they are a couple of clears behind already. As it stands, I made the mistake of joining event, thinking I would have no problem keeping up with the 8 hr refreshes over the course of a week, when I would have been better served not touching this thing until the weekend, when I have time to play the short refresh game.

I may still have quit if they had done that, as they still are disingenuous, when they said:

For starters, we’ll be releasing more 4*s this year, a lot more. We’re currently devoting a lot of thought to making that transition smoother than it was from 2*s to 3*s.

Over the last two 4* releases many people have pointed out their reward tier for 4*s is horrendous, and is an additional factor on top of the large amount of ISO needed for them. In addition to leaving those reward tiers as pathetic as they are, they have also reduced the likely hood of one getting a 4* from PvP progressions as well.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Hey Everyone!

It sounds like pretty much everyone's enjoyed the 8hr refreshes in this event! That's great to hear. We think that the 8hr refresh times are a good idea, but we want to get some additional data before we change the PVE standards. Since the next PVE event will reward a brand new character (And one I'm personally very excited about) we thought it wasn't a good idea to mess with the status quo. As a result Thick as Thieves is going to run next with the standard 3hr refresh times.

We will be running another event with 8hr refresh times soon. Details will follow.

Remember back in the day when they did that new PvP MMR change with the new Mystique covers and everyone cried "Hey Demiurge, what the hell, you guys suck. Stop releasing new features when theres important awards at stake". So they listened, and now they're doing tests with unimportant covers are at stake. Now the exact same situation arose: they tested the new PvE a little bit, it was time to release a new character, and they didn't quite have enough data to make the change for all future events. Rather than saying "what the hell, let's keep it as is", they decided "hey, remember last time when everyone cried when a new character was at stake and we were testing something new? Let's not do that and be responsible this time." Of course, the new test actually ended up being good for the playerbase, and now everyone is up in arms because they decided to be responsible and not rush to conclusions.

I for one, am starting to give some trust to Demiurge. Most of their recent decisions and communication has been for the best, and things are looking pretty bright overall. Yes, this PvE is going to suck and of course I would like 8 hour refresh times. But given what happened before, and how they sort of communicated their reasoning for this, this seems like a perfectly reasonable response, and so i'm not that mad about it. At this point I dunno, all of this forum complaining seems akin to the forumites being a bad girlfriend: ever nagging and never satisfied.

To Demiurge Miles, etc: I don't know what you guys can do to not cause a forum uproar since it seems like a lost cause at this point. Something that could have been done better is to put that quoted text in it's own stickied thread instead of burying it in the discussion: it's valuable information that people probably want to know since otherwise you get even more complaining.

I disagree.

The PVP MMR thing was a bad change; similar to the cooldowns, nerfing Sentry and the many other "gating" changes they've made to PVP. It made climbing more difficult and altered people's abilities to score high.

So they implemented it for a PVP that offered a new character; so in a format where more people were going to play harder to get higher to get the new character, they implemented changes that made it harder to score higher.

This, understandably, did not sit well with the players; and they asked "if you're going to change something this significantly, at least don't do it when we're all going after a new character."

That was the politically correct verbage for what the players were asked. If you translate it into what they actually meant, it would sound more like this:

“If you’re going to **** us, at least wait until after the new character is released. We can handle being **** when going after Steve Rogers Cap America covers, but have some mercy when a new character comes out.”


Now, if you followed the strict denotative value of the original statement, yes our viewpoint may sound like we're flipping our story for this PVE.

But the connotation is the exact opposite.

In this regard, the more merciful option would be to, in fact, implement the new change ASAP.

Especially considering the vast majority of people responded very positively to the 8h timer change, as opposed to the PVP MMR change which was received very negatively.

If you, or D3, are incapable of seeing the difference, then I’m not sure there is much to talk about.

Unknown

Let's try to be objective about all of this.

This game is flat out better than it was a year ago. It keeps getting better. I've had my share of freak-outs to changes to the game, but in general the direction it's going in is a positive one. Playing in the wake of true healing hasn't been unbearable, there are 4 star characters who aren't useless ISO sinks, and Sentry is no longer an obviously broken mistake. The Gauntlet is a thing now, and Survival nodes in PvE are super fun and interesting. The PvP reward tier changes are one huge positive change, the 8 hour sub refresh time switch (even if it's delayed) is another. So let's not freak out too thoroughly about Thick as Thieves. It's been terrible in every iteration after the first (when it rained down Patch covers and was exciting), and it being kind of terrible again isn't going to ruin Christmas.

But as long as we're being objective, we need to recognize that this game is a giant money-eating parasite burrowing into your pants. Roster slots continue to grow to outrageous costs, and the promised accelerated 4* release rate is likely to break everyone's ability to have useful characters. There's still very little evidence that moves will be made to ease progression overall; building a roster of usable characters is still a big old ****-shoot. I'm personally still waiting for additional permanent PvE content (not sure why the Gauntlet chapters aren't just permanent parts of the game; that would give everyone a chance to eventually earn a few covers) and a move toward more non-competitive play options.

This game, at it's core, is both incredibly fun and deeply flawed. But at this point the developers have to have earned at least as much of our trust as they have our scorn.

TL;DR: Don't freak out, forum. Everything isn't necessarily okay, but it also isn't falling over and catching fire.

JVReal

I'm glad to have the 3 hour refresh back. 8 hour has its place, but was boring.
3 hour lets you play at your own pace, 8 hour has you on someone else's pace.

I agree people shouldn't have expected 8 hour refreshes on this since it was a test on the last event with an older character. Northern Polarity was right on the money with his comment.

Only top 50 getting a 4* is acceptable because of the rarity. 4* are supposed to be rare, otherwise they wouldn't be 4* would they? The is a rarity indicator, not a power indicator. Each star indicates more difficulty in achieving it... you guys know this.

They give it out in PVE and will give it out in PVP. If I can't break top 50 in PVE (which is my only shot at it) then I won't get it at all, whereas I would wager that a majority of the people that win it in PVE also will win it in PVP. Personally I think if you don't like the grind of PVE, don't go for the 4* in PVE, let the grinders get it who enjoy the grind (me). If you enjoy the challenge of PVP (which I personally don't and don't have the roster for) then go for it in PVP. Giving it away in both types of event is supposed to be a way to give ALL types of players an opportunity for the rare card.

If you don't like the grind, then don't grind, wait for PVP. If you don't like PVP, then grind. Don't complain because you're doing both willfully and hating it.

To say everyone wants 8 hours is wrong. To say everyone hates 3 hour is wrong. Speak for yourself, not for everyone else because you really can't, it's impossible.

They push PVE to 8 hour for a test run, I start to try out PVP. They then announce phasing out seed teams, which eliminates me from PVP enjoyment, so good thing they put 3 hour refreshes back into play or I'd not have anything to play in this game. For me, playing this game only 2 maybe 3 times a day is just not enough to keep my interest.

slidecage

onimus wrote:

You were on such a hot streak.

8 hour timers on a PVE.
then the revised PVP progression rewards.
And then the new take on Q&A?

You guys were doing so well!

Then you reverted back to your old habits. A PVE for 7 days, back to low timers and only the top 50 get the reward.

Did you not learn anything from the 4hor PVE? People hate all of these things!

But you're compelling us with a new 4 star.

It's like a drug addict relapsing. We obviously need to get you back in counseling.

Consider this your second intervention.

You're better than this!

also these 4 stars are WEAK i think. the 4 star thor had a health base of 4400 not even pumped. These last 2 4 star was like what 2200 to 2400. Same as a 3 star.

What i would love to see (BUT DOUBT IT HAPPENS)

7 Day PVE with 8 hour times the top 50 get a 4 star reward
Daily PVE or sub pves that run 3 days on a 3 hour reset where top 150 get 3 star covers

that way people who want to go all out can go for the 4 star and 3 star at the same time and fixes the problem Then again this would just add to more complaining about time

Unknown

JVReal wrote:

I'm glad to have the 3 hour refresh back. 8 hour has its place, but was boring.
3 hour lets you play at your own pace, 8 hour has you on someone else's pace.

I agree people shouldn't have expected 8 hour refreshes on this since it was a test on the last event with an older character. Northern Polarity was right on the money with his comment.

Only top 50 getting a 4* is acceptable because of the rarity. 4* are supposed to be rare, otherwise they wouldn't be 4* would they? The is a rarity indicator, not a power indicator. Each star indicates more difficulty in achieving it... you guys know this.

They give it out in PVE and will give it out in PVP. If I can't break top 50 in PVE (which is my only shot at it) then I won't get it at all, whereas I would wager that a majority of the people that win it in PVE also will win it in PVP. Personally I think if you don't like the grind of PVE, don't go for the 4* in PVE, let the grinders get it who enjoy the grind (me). If you enjoy the challenge of PVP (which I personally don't and don't have the roster for) then go for it in PVP. Giving it away in both types of event is supposed to be a way to give ALL types of players an opportunity for the rare card.

If you don't like the grind, then don't grind, wait for PVP. If you don't like PVP, then grind. Don't complain because you're doing both willfully and hating it.

To say everyone wants 8 hours is wrong. To say everyone hates 3 hour is wrong. Speak for yourself, not for everyone else because you really can't, it's impossible.

They push PVE to 8 hour for a test run, I start to try out PVP. They then announce phasing out seed teams, which eliminates me from PVP enjoyment, so good thing they put 3 hour refreshes back into play or I'd not have anything to play in this game. For me, playing this game only 2 maybe 3 times a day is just not enough to keep my interest.

I can say, with 100% confidence, that you are in the minority in regards to the 8 hour timer change.

That said, acquisition of a 4 star in the PVP format, while attainable via the new progression rewards, is not the ideal way to build a character.
Once SL is released, there will be 6 4 star characters in rotation for the 1000 point progression reward; Thor, Wolverine, Invisible Woman, Nick Fury, Elektra and Starlord.
So, at best, you’re getting 1 cover every 18 days. If you can consistently get 1000 points, which is no longer a given in this PVP format.
But I don’t want to sound like I’m complaining about the new progression rewards. I’m actually ecstatic about them, so we won’t get much into that.
This thread is about PVE. And, as I said, considering the largely positive response from players in regards to the 8 hour timers (again, you’re in the minority, if not the vast minority), I’m not sure what would prevent D3 from immediately implementing the 8 hour timers, other than to just increase the difficulty and grinding required to get a 4 star, for no palpable reason other than to wear out their customers.

JVReal

onimus wrote:

I can say, with 100% confidence, that you are in the minority in regards to the 8 hour timer change.

That said, acquisition of a 4 star in the PVP format, while attainable via the new progression rewards, is not the ideal way to build a character.
Once SL is released, there will be 6 4 star characters in rotation for the 1000 point progression reward; Thor, Wolverine, Invisible Woman, Nick Fury, Elektra and Starlord.
So, at best, you’re getting 1 cover every 18 days. If you can consistently get 1000 points, which is no longer a given in this PVP format.
But I don’t want to sound like I’m complaining about the new progression rewards. I’m actually ecstatic about them, so we won’t get much into that.
This thread is about PVE. And, as I said, considering the largely positive response from players in regards to the 8 hour timers (again, you’re in the minority, if not the vast minority), I’m not sure what would prevent D3 from immediately implementing the 8 hour timers, other than to just increase the difficulty and grinding required to get a 4 star, for no palpable reason other than to wear out their customers.

I really don't believe I'm in that much of a minority. I'm confident that the people who don't like 8 hours don't comment about it because this forum has a tendency to downrate what they don't agree with rather than accept it as a valid opinion. You can feel the elitism in this forum just by reading. Very few casual/mildly competitive people are on this forum... it doesn't mean they don't play the game. It doesn't mean they aren't put off by not being able to casually play the game because hard core gamers forget what the word 'casual' means.

Without any more non-competitive modes to play, the casual gamer can only play PVE. As a casual/mildly competitive gamer, I would like to hop on before work, during lunch, after work, during the evening, and before bed and be able to play. I get that with 3 or 4 hour refreshes. I don't get that with 8 hours. All I get with 8 hours is frustration of not being able to play the game when I want.

Again I reiterate that this forum is NOT an accurate representation of the player base. It is simply a representation of those players that happened to stumble upon it and have a desire to read up on strategy and then get sucked into posts full of whining and debating (which I have done both of ).

As far as PVP release of 4* I don't mean by progression, I mean by placement in a release of a new character.

Unknown

JVReal wrote:

onimus wrote:

I can say, with 100% confidence, that you are in the minority in regards to the 8 hour timer change.

That said, acquisition of a 4 star in the PVP format, while attainable via the new progression rewards, is not the ideal way to build a character.
Once SL is released, there will be 6 4 star characters in rotation for the 1000 point progression reward; Thor, Wolverine, Invisible Woman, Nick Fury, Elektra and Starlord.
So, at best, you’re getting 1 cover every 18 days. If you can consistently get 1000 points, which is no longer a given in this PVP format.
But I don’t want to sound like I’m complaining about the new progression rewards. I’m actually ecstatic about them, so we won’t get much into that.
This thread is about PVE. And, as I said, considering the largely positive response from players in regards to the 8 hour timers (again, you’re in the minority, if not the vast minority), I’m not sure what would prevent D3 from immediately implementing the 8 hour timers, other than to just increase the difficulty and grinding required to get a 4 star, for no palpable reason other than to wear out their customers.

I really don't believe I'm in that much of a minority. I'm confident that the people who don't like 8 hours don't comment about it because this forum has a tendency to downrate what they don't agree with rather than accept it as a valid opinion. You can feel the elitism in this forum just by reading. Very few casual/mildly competitive people are on this forum... it doesn't mean they don't play the game. It doesn't mean they aren't put off by not being able to casually play the game because hard core gamers forget what the word 'casual' means.

Without any more non-competitive modes to play, the casual gamer can only play PVE. As a casual/mildly competitive gamer, I would like to hop on before work, during lunch, after work, during the evening, and before bed and be able to play. I get that with 3 or 4 hour refreshes. I don't get that with 8 hours. All I get with 8 hours is frustration of not being able to play the game when I want.

Again I reiterate that this forum is NOT an accurate representation of the player base. It is simply a representation of those players that happened to stumble upon it and have a desire to read up on strategy and then get sucked into posts full of whining and debating (which I have done both of ).

As far as PVP release of 4* I don't mean by progression, I mean by placement in a release of a new character.

My memory may be betraying me on this one, but I'm relatively certain they don't do a PVP with placement rewards for new characters when it is a 4 star.

When 4hor and Elektra came out, we got a PVP that featured them, but they were never offered as placement rewards.

JVReal

onimus wrote:

My memory may be betraying me on this one, but I'm relatively certain they don't do a PVP with placement rewards for new characters when it is a 4 star.

When 4hor and Elektra came out, we got a PVP that featured them, but they were never offered as placement rewards.

I was not aware of that, I don't compete for placement in PVP so I never noticed. I know that 3* covers are available for placement there immediately after PVE, I didn't know they didn't do the same for 4*. Sorry about that Onimus.

Phaserhawk

My only arguement for the 3hr timer regardless of how popular the 8hr was, is that the tournament was probably already loaded into the system and because all the metrics and reviews are not yet back to see if it should be permanent to go back to the 8hr system. Could they roll it back, of course, but to do so with all the extra time and effort, vs. just doing it and chaning the format later is the less expensive course of action.

Lets hope this is the last one and all will be forgiven.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

My only arguement for the 3hr timer regardless of how popular the 8hr was, is that the tournament was probably already loaded into the system and because all the metrics and reviews are not yet back to see if it should be permanent to go back to the 8hr system. Could they roll it back, of course, but to do so with all the extra time and effort, vs. just doing it and chaning the format later is the less expensive course of action.

Lets hope this is the last one and all will be forgiven.

So...choose a shorter PVE and/or expand reward tier and/or not have new 4* reward and/or run gauntlet while the info is processed.

Hulk11

I think all this frustration comes whenever new characters come. Tired pattern, I would like 8 hours back, but the releases blow. Lack of any info on anything being released, and general lack of info period. It's always the bombshell routine here.

MarvelMan

JVReal wrote:

As a casual/mildly competitive gamer, I would like to hop on before work, during lunch, after work, during the evening, and before bed and be able to play. I get that with 3 or 4 hour refreshes. I don't get that with 8 hours. All I get with 8 hours is frustration of not being able to play the game when I want.

You pretty much contradict yourself there. If you are casual, you really wouldnt care about the refresh timer and would play when your schedule dictates, knowing that a truly competitive player would change their schedule to hit the refreshes no matter how short and if you dont do the same....youre SOL. (particularly with the pared down reward tiers)


That said, I feel the 8 hours was too long but its still better than 3. The longer the refresh cycle the more importance is placed on hitting it optimally, if you want to place well. Id say the best news is that the 4* is Star-Lord, which will appeal more to the casual fan than the majority of true comic enthusiasts.

Hulk11

MarvelMan wrote:

JVReal wrote:

As a casual/mildly competitive gamer, I would like to hop on before work, during lunch, after work, during the evening, and before bed and be able to play. I get that with 3 or 4 hour refreshes. I don't get that with 8 hours. All I get with 8 hours is frustration of not being able to play the game when I want.

You pretty much contradict yourself there. If you are casual, you really wouldnt care about the refresh timer and would play when your schedule dictates, knowing that a truly competitive player would change their schedule to hit the refreshes no matter how short and if you dont do the same....youre SOL. (particularly with the pared down reward tiers)


That said, I feel the 8 hours was too long but its still better than 3. The longer the refresh cycle the more importance is placed on hitting it optimally, if you want to place well. Id say the best news is that the 4* is Star-Lord, which will appeal more to the casual fan than the majority of true comic enthusiasts.

You're probably just referring to the movies and not the stars. A casual player wouldn't like to hear that a 4 star cover is unattainable or difficult to level.

Trisul

onimus wrote:

I’m not sure what would prevent D3 from immediately implementing the 8 hour timers, other than to just increase the difficulty and grinding required to get a 4 star, for no palpable reason other than to wear out their customers.

This is really hard to assume without knowledge of the development cycle here. Sometimes there are tons of processes in place to approve any change, especially for a game tied to a major brand like Marvel.

It makes sense to me that analysis will take longer than the 1 day in between PvE events, and I'm glad D3 doesn't only consider player opinions when making design changes, otherwise shield queuing would still be a thing. Who knows what metrics they use to determine whether a change should be implemented.

I vastly preferred 8h timers, but I get that they have to go through the process. I'm hopeful that the change will eventually go through.

JVReal

MarvelMan wrote:

JVReal wrote:

As a casual/mildly competitive gamer, I would like to hop on before work, during lunch, after work, during the evening, and before bed and be able to play. I get that with 3 or 4 hour refreshes. I don't get that with 8 hours. All I get with 8 hours is frustration of not being able to play the game when I want.

You pretty much contradict yourself there. If you are casual, you really wouldnt care about the refresh timer and would play when your schedule dictates, knowing that a truly competitive player would change their schedule to hit the refreshes no matter how short and if you dont do the same....youre SOL. (particularly with the pared down reward tiers)


That said, I feel the 8 hours was too long but its still better than 3. The longer the refresh cycle the more importance is placed on hitting it optimally, if you want to place well. Id say the best news is that the 4* is Star-Lord, which will appeal more to the casual fan than the majority of true comic enthusiasts.

So you only read what appeals to you? I said casual/mildly competitive. Yes I would like new covers, yes I will play as often as I can, not as often as is possible. I am mildly competitive, and enjoy ranking, but I know my limits... others should too.

Phaserhawk

It sucks but I'm willing to give them a pass on this one with the recent updates and fixes. Remember the 8hr was the anomaly, everything else was business as usual. Same with shield cool down before the progression fixes, while we want the changes to happen simultaneously if going 8 hr to 3hr to just remind everyone how **** it is to go to 8hr personally is a price I"m willing to pay.

SnowcaTT

onimus wrote:

Polares wrote:

Top 50 for one cover is really demanding, and then you have Storm as a consolation price, ****!!! At least It should be some new character like Luke Cage, Groot or Doom purple, not a tinykitty useless Storm cover NOBODY wants. If you miss Top50 ALL your work is for nothing, wasted.

Then we have ANOTHER 4* in just one month after Elektra came out, THIS IS TOO MUCH. We should be having a new 4* each 3 months or something like that, so we have some time to get some covers for it, I doubt allmost anybody but whales has a maxed Eleketra by now.


I am still considering if participating or not in this event, I made peace with the game after the Elektra debacle, but now, I am considering again leaving the game all together. When I see a new 4* that soon after the last one I got depressed, and loose all motivation in the game...

Yes, the storm cover is also a slap in the face.

They've had more Storm PVPs and prizes in the past few seasons than any other character in the game.

Literally everyone has a 13 cover storm by now haha.

Agree. They give out the worst cover of a character that many have and no one wants to use. Consolation 3* should have been something better than this.

Also - D3 has to have data on the PVE after Elektra. When you give out new characters and use them as essentials the next time, a very limited amount of players have those characters. When you CUT THAT NUMBER IN HALF, how much play did the PVE get that had Elektra as essential? I would guess that PVE had the least amount of play of any PVE in the last several months.

Don't put Starlord as essential - use Storm if you have to so this "reward" isn't such a slap in the face.

JVReal

I still need Storm covers. I only have her at 2/1/2, I can use all the Storm covers they'll give me... not that I use her unless she's essential right now... but not everyone has all their 3* characters fully maxed. In fact, I'll take pretty much any 3* covers they can give, I even have 1 spot open for Steve Rogers finally if they decided to give him out again. Everytime I've gotten one, I've had no room. If I win Starlord, then I guess Steve will have to wait.