D3P Doesn't Steal AP, They Don't Give It (30AP Ceiling).

Unknown

So I play a match against Panther, Hulk, and OBW with OBW, 2*Cap, and Bullseye (which I won, if you're curious--Sentinel, Adamantium, Recon). With Espionage and Recon I aim for a doubletap of Murderous Aim at 32AP only to find out that even with additional Recon and 2 tile matches +Espionage that my AP stayed at 30 when it should have been closer to 42.

Um, excuse you D3P? If I've earned my AP who are you to refuse me the AP I fairly collected in battle? And furthermore, who the hell sets Murderous Aim at 16AP that does an additional 8,200 damage if Murderous Aim makes the total number of criticals on the board 4 (32AP) AND THEN SETS THE CEILING AT 30?!?!??? More like Lacking-Conviction Aim...

What the hell, D3P. Remove the AP ceiling or place it in the triple digits so high it's not a factor. There should be no ceiling. D*ck move, you guys. D*ck move..

orbitalint

I'm not sure where I end up on all this but except in the situation you mention and a few others, I'm glad the cap is 30. It's a game design choice and it really doesn't impact play but in maybe 3% of using powers twice. Some powers could become infinite loops if you expand the limit. I'm thinking 4hor blue into 2* storm green over and over. She'd shatter everything over and over at anything much over 40 ap.

Unknown

Fair enough. But that's also kind of how some character's powers work in the comics. I'd be happy with a 32/40 AP limit, because it is virtually impossible otherwise to create the board conditions for Bullseye; he'd might as well not have the ability then in my opinion.

GothicKratos

Try running him with 2* Magneto.

orbitalint

Agreed. Check out the meme character rankings from 6 months ago. Most don't even remember he has a black ability. He needs work and really only could get off his big damage is with classic Hawkeye, lol. Maybe try MNMags to generate the other crits first if you really want to get it going?

Such is the life of an under powered 2*. Sadly he might never get a rework.

Edit: beat me to it gk, lol.

Unknown

GothicKratos wrote:

Try running him with 2* Magneto.

I will. It just sucks because I can do it with Mags and other characters, but even by planning board reading there's no way to guarantee crits won't accidentally trigger other tiles. Indeed, only Bullseye and Hawkeye have the precision to pull that off. *Sigh. OBW, Bullseye, and Hawkeye it is until I can protest and beat this horse until it is dead and glue and I get the limit raised by at least 3AP.

orbitalint wrote:

Agreed. Check out the meme character rankings from 6 months ago. Most don't even remember he has a black ability. He needs work and really only could get off his big damage is with classic Hawkeye, lol. Maybe try MNMags to generate the other crits first if you really want to get it going?

Such is the life of an under powered 2*. Sadly he might never get a rework.

Edit: beat me to it gk, lol.

What are the meme character rankings?

orbitalint

Here is the most recent character rankings. They are done every few months or after a big set of new characters or changes. It is really helpful to see who will help your play the most.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21083

The one I'm thinking of is here. For a good laugh out of it all. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9782

Unknown

Oh, man, I almost split a rib once I got to the memes.

mischiefmaker wrote:

The very bottom of the barrel, these guys aren't even worth keeping around for tanking purposes; you're better off selling them and holding on to the roster spot or hero points to improve your other characters.

41. Yelena Belova, +0

Let's put it this way: I'm one of those guys that likes collecting things. I have an extra copy of more than one character. And even I haven't kept Yelena around. So we have to ask:



40. Bag Man, +0

I've come a long way since I first laid eyes on The Bag, way back in the early Prologue chapters. I understand a lot of game mechanics that used to confound me. But I still don't know the answer to the great mystery:



Actually, his yellow power isn't terrible at dealing with countdowns, but that's about it.

39. Hawkeye (classic), +0



38. Venom, -2



It's definitely a gimmick, but maybe it's crazy enough to work: Spider Man throws out defense tiles on purple, which an L4 Venom can convert to web tiles fairly efficiently. Once you get a couple on board, Spidey blue becomes very playable, and between the defense tiles and the stun, maybe you can prolong the match long enough to get 6 web tiles for some nom noms.

If the structure of the game were such that you actually had to play your whole roster, I'd at least be willing to give it a try. As it is, though, there's really no reason to keep Venom around now that they don't seem to be running 1* tournaments any more.

37. Bullseye, +1



Yeah, sometimes I forget too.

Since our last round of rankings, Bullseye has lost his dubious distinction of never having been buffed, but even in the events where he was buffed, he still wasn't playable — he really needs to be level 100 or so before the protect tiles provide any meaningful defense, and you still need an outlet for that purple to actually win the fight.

Yeah, Bullseye sucks on his own, but I've made a strategy out of taking the worst characters in the game and making them phenomenal support characters (I have a lvl 70 Bag-Man). And the ability to potentially do 10K plus damage "potentially" makes him one of the most dangerous characters in the game. I don't think it's fair that I have to contend with limited AP with an already limited character.

Also, does Venom destroy web tiles if they're locked by Web-Slinger? Should they? I haven't tried it yet.

KrazyKeylime

i tried making this combo work OBW + bullseye and was able to get it off semi consitently by:
1)matching and stealing until 30 ap
2)get enough ap to steal with OBW
3) make sure enemy team has at least 2 to steal *important*
4) let off the first murderous aim make sure not to destroy the i.ei place in unmatachable spot
5) steal last 2 ap
6) place second Murderous aim
7)pat on back for making it happen
it feels so satisfying to get it off. However, the only times i seem to get the combo is when the last enemy is on his last leg and is barely holding on with 1000-500 health remaning and i have had enough AP in other colors to put him down long ago having to plan moves carefully not to kill him. the purple tiles help reduce damage on your team as you prepare for the long haul.

TL:DR nice gimmick to get off, totally not worth the trouble

KrazyKeylime

TheNewCaptain wrote:

So I play a match against Panther, Hulk, and OBW with OBW, 2*Cap, and Bullseye (which I won, if you're curious--Sentinel, Adamantium, Recon). With Espionage and Recon I aim for a doubletap of Murderous Aim at 32AP only to find out that even with additional Recon and 2 tile matches +Espionage that my AP stayed at 30 when it should have been closer to 42.

Um, excuse you D3P? If I've earned my AP who are you to refuse me the AP I fairly collected in battle? And furthermore, who the hell sets Murderous Aim at 16AP that does an additional 8,200 damage if Murderous Aim makes the total number of criticals on the board 4 (32AP) AND THEN SETS THE CEILING AT 30?!?!??? More like Lacking-Conviction Aim...

What the hell, D3P. Remove the AP ceiling or place it in the triple digits so high it's not a factor. There should be no ceiling. D*ck move, you guys. D*ck move..

may work if paired with 1 hawkeye, requires 16 and 16 and some luck. throw in OBW for good measure

GTannen73

TheNewCaptain wrote:

(I have a lvl 70 Bag-Man).

I got to this part, and then my jaw just dropped and I had to stop. I salute you, sir. I never thought I'd see or hear of a Bag-Man in the wild at that high a level. I have a max cover Bag-Man myself, but he's still at level 15, and won't see any Iso until...give me a minute...(scribbling down some numbers, mumbling "carry the 2") never.

Unknown

The cap has to be in there somewhere even if we don't care about any balance issue. If it was 99 AP people would still be complaining saying why isn't it 999? It's also a good sanity check for abilities like Lightning Storm that will clear the whole board (and collect AP) if you ever have 64 green AP. The only drawback I see to have AP cap at 30 AP is that it makes the Invisible Woman challenge way harder. If you could have 99 blue AP it would be a lot easier to lock the 61 tiles needed to bring the game to a complete halt.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

The cap has to be in there somewhere even if we don't care about any balance issue. If it was 99 AP people would still be complaining saying why isn't it 999? It's also a good sanity check for abilities like Lightning Storm that will clear the whole board (and collect AP) if you ever have 64 green AP. The only drawback I see to have AP cap at 30 AP is that it makes the Invisible Woman challenge way harder. If you could have 99 blue AP it would be a lot easier to lock the 61 tiles needed to bring the game to a complete halt.

Exactly. Not that I'm saying that's what you're saying. That, however, is exactly what I'm saying. I think you should be able to bring the game to a complete halt. It makes the game so much more fluid; Sue Storm *SHOULD be able to "lock down" an entire battlefield. Imagine the entirety of the Avengers--minus Hulk and maybe Thor (limited tile moves, Anger opens a window for Thor)--immobilized under a super sheet of her Psionic power.

That's, like, totally probable. So individual characters should have that wildcard ability to potentially singlehandedly end or halt an entire conflict to an extreme. That's why I want a higher AP limit: and with Sue Storm (Unless X-Man or Franklin Richards becomes a character--Dear, Jebus, no) being the standard of power in damage potential and immobilization at 99AP, the bar may as well be set, the AP limit may as well be 100.

So, yes, Storm's Lightning Storm should also never end, because, well, she's Storm: the Living Avatar of Nature. And it's been shown that once she really starts she really doesn't have to stop. On a modest timeline, Storm is a world-ender. Ending an AP limit or at least simply capping it at 100 better reflects these character's full, individual potential.

At least 50AP, bare minimum. Please. Such as with IM40. In a true emergency, IM40 should be able to "Empty the tanks" and double-ballistic-salvo. Model 35 should be Repulsor Blasting all day. It'd totally happen in the comics so it needs to happen in the game. Perhaps there can be an added "drawback" mechanism that lowers AP gather after what is determined to be a "2X's power activation" or "all-they've-got." If you use 50/100AP in a single turn (and the opponent survives let alone you survive long enough to do it--again, I get over 30 with OBW or even boosts but you could do it if you held out during a long battle) all AP collection is reduced by 50% for the duration of the battle, so use it wisely.

I simply want the option or slightly higher caps at least. It's been an amazing, great, phenomenal, nearly-flawless run for MPQ but I think the game needs to evolve just slightly more. I mean, most people probably aren't going to be stockpiling 50AP, and it's too impractical to always do; and the battle conditions never, ever, ever always allow for it; but when you get just the right cascade and your character's abilities do what they're supposed to do; the natural consequence should be allowed to play out.

Storm should be able to call close to as much storm as Thor; OBW should be entirely be able to overpower any teammate with "Intel;" Hulk...he's a guaranteed kill: that's what Anger is for one, two, three, sixteen opponents no matter how strong within reason; and Bullseye should actually be able to literally "murder" people--with 32AP, 4 crit tiles, and 8,200. Looking at you Thors, who would be equally frightening.

Ultimately I feel the AP cap doesn't reflect the character's true potential on a long enough timeline in battles. Obviously my battle with Panther and Hulk 166 (OBW was no prob) took forever with Widow, Bullseye, and 2* Cap; but it's possible. All I could imagine the entire time was Cap hopping around distracting Hulk, Widow and Bullseye barely taking care of Panther while supporting Cap, jumping between partners wearing Panther down, with sentinel of liberty and adamantium bones holding the line while anti-gravity device eases the strain, until finally Bullseye could plant the killshot with 4 crit arrows directly needed in the center of Hulk's head for Widow and Cap to cooperatively knock his butt in the dirt.

But that amazing story didn't get to happen today. And this doesn't have to happen to anyone else for that matter. We don't have to let amazing battles escape our grasp by capped AP. Together, we can all make a difference. Consult your nearest Dev and request an AP cap raise today. http://www.savethemarvels.com (That's not a real website.)

**In addition, if this AP cap limit were to be raised, I think that a single and double character option should be implemented for the game to send in one or two characters for higher iso rewards since single characters may be able to end battles but will be completely toast at the end.

Unknown

GTannen73 wrote:

TheNewCaptain wrote:

(I have a lvl 70 Bag-Man).

I got to this part, and then my jaw just dropped and I had to stop. I salute you, sir. I never thought I'd see or hear of a Bag-Man in the wild at that high a level. I have a max cover Bag-Man myself, but he's still at level 15, and won't see any Iso until...give me a minute...(scribbling down some numbers, mumbling "carry the 2") never.

You killed me with the Bag-Man in the wild part. Brought thoughts to mind of having better luck seeing an Entei than a Bag-Man. Thank you for the salute; at this point he's a collector's item and he's worth the slot. He's also slightly useful and I'm also convinced that something spectacular (ha, pun) will happen with him. So I hold on.

KrazyKeylime wrote:

i tried making this combo work OBW + bullseye and was able to get it off semi consitently by:
1)matching and stealing until 30 ap
2)get enough ap to steal with OBW
3) make sure enemy team has at least 2 to steal *important*
4) let off the first murderous aim make sure not to destroy the i.ei place in unmatachable spot
5) steal last 2 ap
6) place second Murderous aim
7)pat on back for making it happen
it feels so satisfying to get it off. However, the only times i seem to get the combo is when the last enemy is on his last leg and is barely holding on with 1000-500 health remaning and i have had enough AP in other colors to put him down long ago having to plan moves carefully not to kill him. the purple tiles help reduce damage on your team as you prepare for the long haul.

TL:DR nice gimmick to get off, totally not worth the trouble

TL:DR?

KrazyKeylime wrote:

may work if paired with 1 hawkeye, requires 16 and 16 and some luck. throw in OBW for good measure

It's very doable, 4 Espionages and you have your AP. It's a fallback, but that extra space for Hawkeye is so much more useful with someone else. It's still currently the only team equipped to give Bullseye launching pad. So that seems like a specific design.

over_clocked

Almost feels like a troll thread Any player that has ever played with modern Storm should know that the AP limit is 30 long before they even have a working oBW or Bullseye.

AP limit is a good thing. Bullseye needs major overhaluing and bringing the AP cap to 32 won't help him. I don't consider it practical to use one Murderous Aim to support the next one, though, since the skill costs a whopping 16 AP. Refer to my post here.

MojoWild

Fun times until you've been hit by an Ares with 100 green AP...

Unknown

Deep sigh. I guess I will use other ways to pull off Murderous Aim. It was entirely deliberate to put it at 16AP though, and that's frustrating. It's entirely possible to get 32AP per match. And I don't much fear any power past 30 AP. At that point it's a race for AP, so I feel the game mechanics wouldn't change much...

As for being aware of AP limit, I never charge Storm that high; I swear green tiles don't appear with just her. So I never noticed because I would never assume the limit would be so low. 30 is not difficult to stockpile. So I don't intend to troll, I just obviously play differently and look at different things. I mean, c'mom ... ("I have a lvl 70 Bag-Man.") Of course I play differently. It's simply illogical that Hawkeye and Bullsey(of all characters) can't shoot 4 arrows at max AP.

Again, my point is--in the comics or cartoons or movies which this game stimulates--if Hawkeye and Bullseye wanted you down you would have 8 critical arrows in your chest. Ergo, visavi, in conclusion, (now I'm trolling with opinion) the game only partially simulates the Marvel Universe. Close, but not good enough. Great, not extraordinary: characters can't do what they're actually capable of in any other scenario.

As for Ares, he is devastating regardless if it's 30 or 100, in my opinion, and 100AP Onslaught that gives you 50AP for a sacrifice? Deal. But it is what it is. (Still will settle for 32AP.) And again, 16 isn't a lot with Espionage. Might as well be 12. So that's why I'm slightly disappointed. I figure if I collect it, I should keep it. Within reason of course.

32/40 sounds good. The game will be significantly better with even 2 extra AP raising the ceiling. I was slightly annoyed and also trying to get the Devs attention (because out of all the strategies I have for this game, I genuinely did not know the AP limit was 30 ) so I came off trolly and like a disgruntled kid.

So I'm done. I won't keep bumping this thing, I just had what I felt to be a legitimate concern and I wanted to be heard. I appreciate you guys, gals?, gender neutral pronoun, listening to me.

Unknown

Yeah, I honestly never knew. Or, I just always assumed the limit was like 32. With the average high for AP being 16, I thought we all would at least get the ability to double- tap those abilities. Honestly, I'm just now figuring it out, and will probably email a super-nice correspondence trying to butter the AP up to 32. Along with gourmet donuts and lots of pizza. (You guys think I'm kidding. I'll order 6 extra large, double cheese, half meat-lovers party pizzas to the office signed, "From: TheNewCaptain. 'Please raise the AP by 2.") Hey, you don't catch flies with vinegar.

famousfoxking

TheNewCaptain wrote:

And furthermore, who the hell sets Murderous Aim at 16AP that does an additional 8,200 damage if Murderous Aim makes the total number of criticals on the board 4 (32AP) AND THEN SETS THE CEILING AT 30?

I think you're missing the point. Murderous Aim is certainly not worth 16AP. It costs 16 AP specifically so that you can't drop it twice in a turn. If the AP cap were 999, Murderous Aim would cost 500 AP. If the AP cap were 20, it would cost 11.

OzarkBoatswain

I had a lvl 69 Bullseye when that was the cap. I got the Murderous Aim damage to go off... once? twice? Even with 2* Magneto it didn't happen often. But hey, it's easier than getting Venom's instakill to go off post-Spider-nerf.

over_clocked

Ozark Boatswain wrote:

I had a lvl 69 Bullseye when that was the cap. I got the Murderous Aim damage to go off... once? twice? Even with 2* Magneto it didn't happen often. But hey, it's easier than getting Venom's instakill to go off post-Spider-nerf.

I think it is but still: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=22113&p=280557#p280557
and I know quite a few people that like the troll team of Juggernaut/Venom/Spidey for Balance of Power.