I prefer a power creep over what we got / are getting.

Unknown

Power creep makes things more interesting without making the old models obsolete.

Unknown

Power creep in most games I play give players incentive to purchase....now there will always be complaining with power creeping but I do feel its the lesser of the two evils to nerfing.

Unknown

Marvel avengers alliance has held my interest for 1.5 years now due to power creep without excessive nerfing (with 1 or 2 minor exceptions).

Kiamodo

DumDumDugn wrote:

Marvel avengers alliance has held my interest for 1.5 years now due to power creep without excessive nerfing (with 1 or 2 minor exceptions).

Yep great game did it the right way. Marvel: War of Heroes on the other hand. Jeeeez. You get a good card and next week he is junk no strategy at all. Just Arabian princes playing against American drug dealers. Marvel Heroes is a great Diablo style game with great dev communication. Man I'm giving way too much money to marvel.

Unknown

Kiamodo wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

Marvel avengers alliance has held my interest for 1.5 years now due to power creep without excessive nerfing (with 1 or 2 minor exceptions).

Yep great game did it the right way. Marvel: War of Heroes on the other hand. Jeeeez. You get a good card and next week he is junk no strategy at all. Just Arabian princes playing against American drug dealers. Marvel Heroes is a great Diablo style game with great dev communication. Man I'm giving way too much money to marvel.

Sold all my WoH cards and got out before everything got worthless. Sad I actually even wasted the money to play that game.

Kiamodo

Sold all my WoH cards and got out before everything got worthless. Sad I actually even wasted the money to play that game.[/quote]

No exit strategy here though!

Nemek

I think the problem is that can we really power creep up above 2 turn battles? So...1 turn battles? ...0 turn battles? Or does everybody just triple in health?

Unknown

Nemek wrote:

I think the problem is that can we really power creep up above 2 turn battles? So...1 turn battles? ...0 turn battles? Or does everybody just triple in health?

I think hulk was the first step in that. You cant end a fight on turn 2 with max rags/widow vs rags/hulk/whatever. It's just a good fast noob stomper.

You could also put out heroes that directly counter ragnarok. Power creep doesn't necessarily mean "everything gets better", just "keep introducing stuff that shakes up the meta".


For example, I'm going to use a fighting game example

In SF4, Sagat was the king. However, he got absolutely owned by C.Viper. C.Viper on the other hand, lost to a lot of other characters. Thus it was advantageous to not only rely on Sagat (or C.Viper), but others as well. As a result, although Sagat was clearly the best character in the game, he hardly won any tournaments.

Kiamodo

I think there are ways.

rags creates less green tiles.
Attack is lowered by 400 on red
Red costs 4 AP
An over abundance of green will shutdown rags stunning him 2 turns


Boom. 4 better options right off the top of my head.

Unknown

I have to disagree. Powercreep by its nature makes the old obsolete.

Unknown

Kiamodo wrote:

I think there are ways.

rags creates less green tiles.
Attack is lowered by 400 on red
Red costs 4 AP
An over abundance of green will shutdown rags stunning him 2 turns


Boom. 4 better options right off the top of my head.

How about, cannot use Thunderclap when there are more than 10 greens on the board, or it does damage to your own team as well.

You're right, lots of creative ways to go about this.

Instead, we got lowest common denominator nerf/neuter.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

I have to disagree. Powercreep by its nature makes the old obsolete.

Nope, go play MAA. Quicksilver (introduced 1 year ago) and Captain America (introduced at the start) are still near the top in the metagame, along with latest additions.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

I have to disagree. Powercreep by its nature makes the old obsolete.

Agreed, though perhaps not so suddenly. But Nemek hit the nail on the head. Powercreep can only go so far in a game like this, where we had already hit reliable 1 and 2 turn wins.

Kiamodo

DumDumDugn wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

I have to disagree. Powercreep by its nature makes the old obsolete.

Nope, go play MAA. Quicksilver (introduced 1 year ago) and Captain America (introduced at the start) are still near the top in the metagame, along with latest additions.

Yep. And still a great game.

Unknown

Yeah, "power creep" by definition means that newer things are stronger than older things. Serra Angel in magic was originally printed as a rare, but 10 years into the game was only effectively an uncommon because the relative strength of cards (in most ways) had increased. That's power creep. And, as said, there's really no creeping room over a 1 turn game. If you're suggesting replacing Rag with a character who has a slightly more efficient red ability, then all you've done is given players a different must-have build-around one-turn killer. The devs are trying to make games take longer, and I think that's the right direction.

Just to be clear, the nerf was too strong. But Rag in his previous incarnation didn't really allow for power creep in the traditional sense. Can't creep past the game's ceiling.

Unknown

The people saying you cant creep past 1-2 turn kills aren't looking at the big picture here, only numbers

How about introducing a 2* hero with the following ability: Any time green is matched (by either side), subtract 3 red from the opponent. If enough people used that, Rags becomes a liability, which has ripple effects towards the entire meta without directly nerfing Ragnarok.

This is how MTG and MAA shake up the meta without completely nerfing top tiers. Introducing hard counters.

Kiamodo

Perfect. I like that thinking. Modifications are expected. Demolishing a character to this extent is abhorrent.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

The people saying you cant creep past 1-2 turn kills aren't looking at the big picture here, only numbers

How about introducing a 2* hero with the following ability: Any time green is matched (by either side), subtract 3 red from the opponent. If enough people used that, Rags becomes a liability, which has ripple effects towards the entire meta without directly nerfing Ragnarok.

This is how MTG and MAA shake up the meta without completely nerfing top tiers. Introducing hard counters.

Hard counters is not powercreep.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

The people saying you cant creep past 1-2 turn kills aren't looking at the big picture here, only numbers

How about introducing a 2* hero with the following ability: Any time green is matched (by either side), subtract 3 red from the opponent. If enough people used that, Rags becomes a liability, which has ripple effects towards the entire meta without directly nerfing Ragnarok.

This is how MTG and MAA shake up the meta without completely nerfing top tiers. Introducing hard counters.

Hard counters is not powercreep.

It's a combination of power creep AND hard counters. By introducing a hard counter to shut down Rags, it gives them more room to power creep.

Also, HPs. Like i said before, you can't 1 or 2 turn kill a hulk/rag team.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

The people saying you cant creep past 1-2 turn kills aren't looking at the big picture here, only numbers

How about introducing a 2* hero with the following ability: Any time green is matched (by either side), subtract 3 red from the opponent. If enough people used that, Rags becomes a liability, which has ripple effects towards the entire meta without directly nerfing Ragnarok.

This is how MTG and MAA shake up the meta without completely nerfing top tiers. Introducing hard counters.

That works a lot better when you can't choose your opponents. You introduce that character, and when that's your opponent, you either skip them, or just use a different character. Thats assuming the meta of speed doesn't just overwhelm that character. Oh, you are running her. First target on the list. She becomes a speedbump that takes a 1-2 turn win and turns it into a maybe 3-4 turn win.

Unknown

Kyosokun wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

The people saying you cant creep past 1-2 turn kills aren't looking at the big picture here, only numbers

How about introducing a 2* hero with the following ability: Any time green is matched (by either side), subtract 3 red from the opponent. If enough people used that, Rags becomes a liability, which has ripple effects towards the entire meta without directly nerfing Ragnarok.

This is how MTG and MAA shake up the meta without completely nerfing top tiers. Introducing hard counters.

That works a lot better when you can't choose your opponents. You introduce that character, and when that's your opponent, you either skip them, or just use a different character. Thats assuming the meta of speed doesn't just overwhelm that character. Oh, you are running her. First target on the list. She becomes a speedbump that takes a 1-2 turn win and turns it into a maybe 3-4 turn win.

It's more than that. If she had 3000 hp, thats 3000 hp you have to take out before you can thunderclap. That's a lot of turns.

And skipping or changing characters...that adds both time and variety...exactly what we want!