*** Luke Cage (Hero For Hire) ***

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  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster wrote:
    I tried him out in Combined Arms and I have to say it seemed the Protect tile seemed to be matched away a lot. Not sure if it happens enough to devalue the power though.

    Yeah, it's too good when fully maxed not to have this maxed, it negates all match damage which in the end is what really gets you, what you don't want is someone geneerating cheap small protect tiles that negate this guy but he and Falcon seem very scary together.

    So the debate it seems is 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 it doesn't appear that 4/5/4 will be very good. So here's what I see so far.

    Righteous Uppercut. If maxed this is always at least 4531 dmg which when compared to say Hood's yellow is about even, Hood still has a tad more damage but it doesn't end the turn, but maxed this guy is smacking you around for 7151 dmg and that's going to be a KO, esentially that in the line of 3* Thor power for Lighting Stirke

    Jab, Jab, Cross is also really neat, 12 AP does 6428. Rigteous Uppercut averages more damage per AP, but you have to wait longer. However it will be more consistent.

    I think I'm leaning 5/5/3. I like what he can do with 4hor, and his red passive allows him and his teammates to hang around thus increasing the likelyhood of Righteous Uppercut going off full tilt. I would like to try to pair this guy with Blade, and I would rather use Nightstalker early thus 5/5/3 will be my go to, but I 100% see and understand 3/5/5 because if black AP comes rolling in, like pairing him with DOOM, then you can really jab people to death.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,220 Chairperson of the Boards
    What is it going to be like fighting cage at 395?

    No match damage, and massive black and yellow nukes to worry about.

    Worse, what about cage plus 2 goons feeding him yellow and/or black?
  • JVRealJVReal Posts: 1,884 Chairperson of the Boards
    With him and Colossus and these Defensive CD Tiles, they need to identify these tiles as different from the rest of them in their coding, having Offensive and Defensive CD tiles separated, so they can be treated differently in coding.

    As it stands, OBW will extend the timer on all opponents CD tiles making them last longer (including these defensive tiles) which is the opposite effect you want on these particular tiles, and won't Hood's ability reduce the timer on these defense timers as well for your own team?

    If they code them as separate Offensive and Defensive CD tiles, then you can add to the code for OBW to lengthen enemy Offensive CD tiles and shorten enemy Defensive CD, and Hoods ability to shorten friendly Offensive CD tiles and lengthen friendly Defensive CD tiles.
  • JVReal wrote:
    With him and Colossus and these Defensive CD Tiles, they need to identify these tiles as different from the rest of them in their coding, having Offensive and Defensive CD tiles separated, so they can be treated differently in coding.

    As it stands, OBW will extend the timer on all opponents CD tiles making them last longer (including these defensive tiles) which is the opposite effect you want on these particular tiles, and won't Hood's ability reduce the timer on these defense timers as well for your own team?

    If they code them as separate Offensive and Defensive CD tiles, then you can add to the code for OBW to lengthen enemy Offensive CD tiles and shorten enemy Defensive CD, and Hoods ability to shorten friendly Offensive CD tiles and lengthen friendly Defensive CD tiles.

    I like it. Makes you think. Sort of like getting rid of an enemy's redwing tiles(not good for you).


    But I have been thinking about Luke's Black - is that how Psylocke Red is SUPPOSED to work?
  • So yellow basically does around 1500 more damage compared to black for needing 1 more AP, though that's harsher than it sounds because going from 12 to 13 AP takes it to 5 match territory, but you might get lucky and pick up an extra AP from a match 4 somewhere. Seems like a pretty good tradeoff and I can be satisfied with either 5 in yellow or black depending on what covers show up. A 1 turn stun still has some minimal utility and yellow's damage isn't always going to be at full power.
  • eidehuaeidehua Age Unconfirmed Posts: 521 Critical Contributor
    So iirc, they fixed the locked tile + colossus yellow tile (effect still works). Has anyone confirmed a locked black jab CD will make Cage's black not benefit from it?

    Anyways, more CDs that want to be extended means Bag man keeps getting better icon_e_wink.gif
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    I'm thinking 5/3/5. Protect tiles still aren't that good. Match damage doesn't kill characters, nukes kill characters. Note that you shouldn't take XFW into consideration for Luke Cage's covers because you should never use them together.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm thinking 5/3/5. Protect tiles still aren't that good. Match damage doesn't kill characters, nukes kill characters. Note that you shouldn't take XFW into consideration for Luke Cage's covers because you should never use them together.

    When you're doing a marathon session of like 10+ matches in a row, each match = 2k damage taken just from match damage if it lasts 10 turns (which most games do). Luke preventing match damage is huge in this case: it basically amounts to 2.5k true healing every match (obviously its not as good as that, but it's closer than you would think). You know that underleveled OBW that you bring along but always dies to match damage from tanking purple? Well, with Cage around, OBW takes 0 on match damage and can proceed to recon the enemy to death.

    I think two builds are going to emerge:you have the 5/3/5 build for transitioners who really need Luke to carry them damage wise and are willing to sacrifice some defense to do so.

    Then you have the 5/5/3 veteran build. Both 3/5/5 or 5/5/3 max out one ability at the expense of another, and it's becomingly increasingly obvious that yellow is the way to go for a multitude of reasons:
    1. X-Force hogs black, so you never use Cage black. X-Force doesn't always hog yellow, so Cage is good to go there.
    2. Yellow is pretty much the best outlet for ladythor charge tiles imaginable. Look at the yellow abilities in the game. The only comparable ones are like LazyThor (can't use with LadyThor), BP (LadyThor doesn't care about strike tiles really), Fury (eh....), etc. Cage is 6k for 13 yellow AP, and when you routinely get 20+ yellow AP from random charged tiles, Cage is looking pretty good with her.
    3. In survival mode, Blade is one of the best guys there because of nightstalker doing stuff. You'd use that over Cage black, so yellow works better for that team composition.

    There are just better blacks than yellows in the game at this point on higher tier / more common characters (surgical, rage of the panther, masterstroke, nightstalker compared to thunder strike, battleplan, ... uh... mistress of the elements...?) so 5/5/3 seems better.

    Red is interesting in that the higher level the enemies are, the better it gets, and the lower level enemies are, the worse it gets. That's why I'm not sure if 5 red is even necessary since some times 3-4 red could easily reduce match damage down to 1 as well, which is the main case you care about. I think I want to optimize Cage for 166-250 PvE though, in which case 5 red is essential since match damage easily goes past 250.
  • I don't think his red is all that great but looking at the character from a standalone point of view, you got a 4 match black and a 5 match yellow, so that's already really slow and it'd be a pretty bad idea to hedge your bets on 2 very slow moves since it is quite possible you never get the AP you need so you should try to get some immediate value back on the red. Now if you're putting him in a team with Spiderman then you'll probably be fine at 5/3/5, but that team doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. I'm sure there's something clever you can do with a 5/3/5 but I can't think of anything at the moment so you might as well take the immediate value for 5 red, which is minor but it is always useful.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    I don't think his red is all that great but looking at the character from a standalone point of view, you got a 4 match black and a 5 match yellow, so that's already really slow and it'd be a pretty bad idea to hedge your bets on 2 very slow moves since it is quite possible you never get the AP you need so you should try to get some immediate value back on the red. Now if you're putting him in a team with Spiderman then you'll probably be fine at 5/3/5, but that team doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. I'm sure there's something clever you can do with a 5/3/5 but I can't think of anything at the moment so you might as well take the immediate value for 5 red, which is minor but it is always useful.

    5/3/5 seems better for transitioners that aren't blessed with the 4* powerhouses that we are. 5/5/3 seems optimal for us 4* people. The ladythor charge tile interaction with yellow is surprisingly huge, and I think that LadyThor / XF / Cage might actually end up being as good as Loki/Hood in PvE because of how much less match damage you take with Cage's red.

    I actually don't think it's that bad to hedge your bets on 2 very slow moves if you have support for Cage. The moves are powerful enough that Cage could carry the team with some AP support from OBW or something.
  • Phantron wrote:
    I don't think his red is all that great but looking at the character from a standalone point of view, you got a 4 match black and a 5 match yellow, so that's already really slow and it'd be a pretty bad idea to hedge your bets on 2 very slow moves since it is quite possible you never get the AP you need so you should try to get some immediate value back on the red. Now if you're putting him in a team with Spiderman then you'll probably be fine at 5/3/5, but that team doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. I'm sure there's something clever you can do with a 5/3/5 but I can't think of anything at the moment so you might as well take the immediate value for 5 red, which is minor but it is always useful.

    5/3/5 seems better for transitioners that aren't blessed with the 4* powerhouses that we are. 5/5/3 seems optimal for us 4* people. The ladythor charge tile interaction with yellow is surprisingly huge, and I think that LadyThor / XF / Cage might actually end up being as good as Loki/Hood in PvE because of how much less match damage you take with Cage's red.

    I actually don't think it's that bad to hedge your bets on 2 very slow moves if you have support for Cage. The moves are powerful enough that Cage could carry the team with some AP support from OBW or something.

    Well if you're hedging on both of his big moves then implies he is by far the strongest character on your team, which is fairly unlikely without spending money since cover availability tends to favor the older characters. Sure I can see if the game hands you a 5/3/5 to start the game for a new guy then it'd be perfectly fine to avoid yellow/black on your other characters to compliment him, but obviously the game isn't that nice either. It just seems like there's a very good chance of:

    1. Someone on your team is as good or better in yellow/black.
    2. You never hit enough yellow/black in the first place.

    So I'd get 5 in red in general. If there's a particular team I'm trying to build around him, those drawbacks may not apply.
  • evil pandaevil panda Age Unconfirmed Posts: 419 Mover and Shaker
    am i the only immature one who finds his righteous uppercut animation amusing?

    i mean, he shoves his fist up there and brown stuff falls from above icon_lol.gif
  • Actually... Actually he might be the perfect compliment for the mnmags+mystique combo. Get enough black and you can stun the entire team and collect the pink/blue you need to keep going. Plus he gets the red protect tile out to lessen the initial damage when you go to find purples and blues.

    Also common guys, this guy is going to see high level pvp about as much as GSBW. Only when you're clowning around with other tinykitty guys (hi falcon) or in events like the current one. Don't try to build him as if he was going to be xf's loyal shieldmate.
  • AronditeArondite Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    Flare808 wrote:
    Arondite wrote:
    Are you telling me that Luke Cage will do 8,400 damage on 5 yellow? Holy, jesus.

    Negative- Cage will do about 7100 at max. He only does extra damage for each ally of his still alive, meaning he can get the bonus 1300 twice.

    Erm, every other "for each non-downed ally" we've seen, like ninjas and whatnot, count the user as well.

    :s
  • Arondite wrote:
    Flare808 wrote:
    Arondite wrote:
    Are you telling me that Luke Cage will do 8,400 damage on 5 yellow? Holy, jesus.

    Negative- Cage will do about 7100 at max. He only does extra damage for each ally of his still alive, meaning he can get the bonus 1300 twice.

    Erm, every other "for each non-downed ally" we've seen, like ninjas and whatnot, count the user as well.

    :s

    All the ninja abilities says 'do X, plus X for each non-downed ally' as opposed to just 'X for each non-downed ally'. Only Gorgon breaks this as Awaken the Hand says 'does X damage for each non-downed ally' but clearly counts himself.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm thinking 5/3/5. Protect tiles still aren't that good. Match damage doesn't kill characters, nukes kill characters. Note that you shouldn't take XFW into consideration for Luke Cage's covers because you should never use them together.

    When you're doing a marathon session of like 10+ matches in a row, each match = 2k damage taken just from match damage if it lasts 10 turns (which most games do). Luke preventing match damage is huge in this case: it basically amounts to 2.5k true healing every match (obviously its not as good as that, but it's closer than you would think). You know that underleveled OBW that you bring along but always dies to match damage from tanking purple? Well, with Cage around, OBW takes 0 on match damage and can proceed to recon the enemy to death.

    I think two builds are going to emerge:you have the 5/3/5 build for transitioners who really need Luke to carry them damage wise and are willing to sacrifice some defense to do so.

    Then you have the 5/5/3 veteran build. Both 3/5/5 or 5/5/3 max out one ability at the expense of another, and it's becomingly increasingly obvious that yellow is the way to go for a multitude of reasons:
    1. X-Force hogs black, so you never use Cage black. X-Force doesn't always hog yellow, so Cage is good to go there.
    2. Yellow is pretty much the best outlet for ladythor charge tiles imaginable. Look at the yellow abilities in the game. The only comparable ones are like LazyThor (can't use with LadyThor), BP (LadyThor doesn't care about strike tiles really), Fury (eh....), etc. Cage is 6k for 13 yellow AP, and when you routinely get 20+ yellow AP from random charged tiles, Cage is looking pretty good with her.
    3. In survival mode, Blade is one of the best guys there because of nightstalker doing stuff. You'd use that over Cage black, so yellow works better for that team composition.

    There are just better blacks than yellows in the game at this point on higher tier / more common characters (surgical, rage of the panther, masterstroke, nightstalker compared to thunder strike, battleplan, ... uh... mistress of the elements...?) so 5/5/3 seems better.

    Red is interesting in that the higher level the enemies are, the better it gets, and the lower level enemies are, the worse it gets. That's why I'm not sure if 5 red is even necessary since some times 3-4 red could easily reduce match damage down to 1 as well, which is the main case you care about. I think I want to optimize Cage for 166-250 PvE though, in which case 5 red is essential since match damage easily goes past 250.

    Perfect Summation NP. Power wise 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 are roughly the same, 5/5/3 has more thoeretical damage, 3/5/5 is slightly quicker and more utility and for the players with deeper rosters those are the only 2 viables. I said before I'm aiming for 5/5/3 just because of X-Force/4hor interaction, however with Elektra he'd be better 3/5/5. Either way Cage is going to save people Health Packs in general which is amazing. Even if you never used his skills he will save you loads of damage and allow you to push deeper in PvE or PvP, so while offensively he's a little slow he's definitely playable, so it appears I have a new character that will soon be in the "must level' category
  • captainwhimsycaptainwhimsy Age Unconfirmed Posts: 11
    Anyone else noticed his Red passive doesn't trigger on your first round? A bug maybe, or design?
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Anyone else noticed his Red passive doesn't trigger on your first round? A bug maybe, or design?
    It always activates after your opponent's turn. Eg, if you match it yourself, it won't regenerate until your opponent has made a move.
  • I don't think any passive triggers on your first turn by design.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Anyone else noticed his Red passive doesn't trigger on your first round? A bug maybe, or design?

    I get it not triggering right when it starts, Blade's Thirst doesn't, but it does say at the begining of every turn so to me that implies the AI's as well.
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