*** Wolverine (Patch) ***

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Comments

  • Phantron wrote:
    Although I swear the AI is always waiting for Spiderman to come out before they decide to use a skill where they have a higher AP cost that they're saving up, I'm pretty sure it's just a random period of time before the AI finally gives up trying to wait for more AP of a certain color.

    I've experimented letting one character match 5-6 turns in a row before switching, the AI always uses their skill as soon as I switch. I'm not saying it's the only trigger, but I do think it's factored in.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ah maybe that's why I didn't notice. I'm a compulsive switcher
  • MarcusGravesMarcusGraves Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
    Phantron wrote:
    Although I swear the AI is always waiting for Spiderman to come out before they decide to use a skill where they have a higher AP cost that they're saving up, I'm pretty sure it's just a random period of time before the AI finally gives up trying to wait for more AP of a certain color.

    I noticed the AI will sometimes wait a few turns before using Thorned Rose, even though it should be 100% advantageous to use it immediately. That said I've never seen the AI not use its most expensive ability if it could use them.

    I thought it was just my imagination but the past week I've noticed the AI behaving differently. I've had multiple games vs an enemy thor where he would have enough AP for his red and I get off like 2-3 matches between my wolv and ares w/o him firing it off. I finally make a match with my O. black widow and he decides to finally fire it off at her, I've had this happen constantly to the point where I feel like AI is always waiting for me to switch to just her.

    its almost like AI is prioritizing the member on you team with the lowest HP, widow is 77, wolv 85 and 48 ares (with buff in tournament he had like 9k HP) so widow had the lowest HP all the time, needs more testing.
  • Phantron wrote:
    Although I swear the AI is always waiting for Spiderman to come out before they decide to use a skill where they have a higher AP cost that they're saving up, I'm pretty sure it's just a random period of time before the AI finally gives up trying to wait for more AP of a certain color.

    I noticed the AI will sometimes wait a few turns before using Thorned Rose, even though it should be 100% advantageous to use it immediately. That said I've never seen the AI not use its most expensive ability if it could use them.

    I thought it was just my imagination but the past week I've noticed the AI behaving differently. I've had multiple games vs an enemy thor where he would have enough AP for his red and I get off like 2-3 matches between my wolv and ares w/o him firing it off. I finally make a match with my O. black widow and he decides to finally fire it off at her, I've had this happen constantly to the point where I feel like AI is always waiting for me to switch to just her.

    its almost like AI is prioritizing the member on you team with the lowest HP, widow is 77, wolv 85 and 48 ares (with buff in tournament he had like 9k HP) so widow had the lowest HP all the time, needs more testing.

    Is there someone with a more costly red move? The AI now waits what seems to be a random number of turns to save up for the more expensive ability. I've seen games where they have Wolverine (3g) and GSBW (19g) and the AI held onto its green for a very long time without using Feral Claws. I don't think it's trying to prioritize anything, but it's still harder than before where you know the AI will use a move the moment they have enough and it's much harder to protect your vulnerable guys now since you don't know when they'll use it. If they have enough to use their most expensive move for that color, they still use that right away every single time.
  • Phantron wrote:
    If they have enough to use their most expensive move for that color, they still use that right away every single time.

    I'm under the impression this was changed, maybe a week or two ago. I definitely remember a very high level Yelena in The Hunt delaying her black skill for several turns, waiting for my flimsy **-Window to show up. Happened more than once, and each time Yelena was the only one left not downed. It seems like the AI will save up for the more expensive of two same colored skills unless the hero with the less expensive skill is close to getting downed or your weakest hero is up front.
  • nihiliumnihilium Posts: 242
    Is there a good reason not to go 3/5/5?
    I somehow find his green skills on higher levels helps his enemies more than it helps him, since ill kinda kill his strike tiles for his Next moves, but leave all those stupid purple tiles behind....

    Or do i miss something and i actually CREATE green green tiles that could Cascade awesomely?
  • poomermonpoomermon Posts: 300 Mover and Shaker
    Wolverine (Patch) has two abilities that aren't working right in R46 (the next patch, expected to release as early as tomorrow morning).

    As they upgrade, Berserker Rage and Best There Is both place Strike tiles. In order to capture the reckless, hot-tempered side of Wolverine, these Strike tiles are supposed to be placed for each team. The abilities are balanced around this mechanic. This is the way they function in R45.

    R46 has a bug where he only places friendly Strike tiles. In practice, this means an ability that's supposed to place 2 friendly and 2 enemy Strike tiles... is placing 4 friendly strike tiles instead. Lookout!

    We don't want to delay the release of R46. We also don't want to temporarily change the underlying ability design.

    So, for the duration of R46, Wolverine (Patch) will have two abilities that are more powerful than they should be. The descriptions will say that he places tiles for the enemy, but now you know that's not actually true icon_e_smile.gif.

    The bug is fixed in R47, at which point he'll go back to working the way he should.

    So, have fun with a supercharged Patch! Just remember that his days of defying the rules are numbered.

    Please be on the lookout for additional patch notes to be placed soon as well.

    Thanks!

    So it seems patch is boosted for a short while. I actually got 5 covers from Ares tournament but I don't have enough iso to experiment with him right now.
  • It's a trap to get people to spend HP on him. I'm tempted as there was a good chance I was gonna use him anyways (depending on the 2 and 4 star Wolvie changes).
  • MarcusGravesMarcusGraves Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
    nihilium wrote:
    Is there a good reason not to go 3/5/5?
    I somehow find his green skills on higher levels helps his enemies more than it helps him, since ill kinda kill his strike tiles for his Next moves, but leave all those stupid purple tiles behind....

    Or do i miss something and i actually CREATE green green tiles that could Cascade awesomely?

    well at max level rank 3 green would give you +444 damage instead of +888 at rank 5 which is a pretty huge difference and all the tiles he drops for the other team should be 74. id rather go 5/3/5 to have both the maximum amount of strike tiles and that insane 371 no condition healing.

    it should also work like **wolv's green where you need to have the required tiles open (no special) to get every last strike tile down. so if you have a rank 5 green and 6 open basic green tiles on the board and there are for the sake of argument only 3 open purple basic tiles then you would come out even further ahead even through there is the drawback of them getting tiles because you would be getting the 888 extra damage and they would only get 222 from the three 74 ones instead of 444 from six.

    have mercy on the enemy team's souls should you ever get 1 attack tile out with ***wolv's 6 strike tiles out since that'd be 1776 damage per turn from both the added damage on a match and to the attack tile.
  • hes not boosted, hes broken. if his abilities arent working he way that they should, thats broken.

    i dont know anyhing about coding or rolling out apps, but i do know somwthing about quality and doing things the right way. this sounds like a tinykitty rush "fix" to something that imo the d3 demiurge team should step back from, hold the update, and fix so that things work as intended. marc
  • Phantron wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Although I swear the AI is always waiting for Spiderman to come out before they decide to use a skill where they have a higher AP cost that they're saving up, I'm pretty sure it's just a random period of time before the AI finally gives up trying to wait for more AP of a certain color.

    I noticed the AI will sometimes wait a few turns before using Thorned Rose, even though it should be 100% advantageous to use it immediately. That said I've never seen the AI not use its most expensive ability if it could use them.

    I thought it was just my imagination but the past week I've noticed the AI behaving differently. I've had multiple games vs an enemy thor where he would have enough AP for his red and I get off like 2-3 matches between my wolv and ares w/o him firing it off. I finally make a match with my O. black widow and he decides to finally fire it off at her, I've had this happen constantly to the point where I feel like AI is always waiting for me to switch to just her.

    its almost like AI is prioritizing the member on you team with the lowest HP, widow is 77, wolv 85 and 48 ares (with buff in tournament he had like 9k HP) so widow had the lowest HP all the time, needs more testing.

    Is there someone with a more costly red move? The AI now waits what seems to be a random number of turns to save up for the more expensive ability. I've seen games where they have Wolverine (3g) and GSBW (19g) and the AI held onto its green for a very long time without using Feral Claws. I don't think it's trying to prioritize anything, but it's still harder than before where you know the AI will use a move the moment they have enough and it's much harder to protect your vulnerable guys now since you don't know when they'll use it. If they have enough to use their most expensive move for that color, they still use that right away every single time.

    I've specifically observed that with Thor, if he's in good shape, will wait until it has a good chance using all three abilities. If he's hurt he won't wait. But it's done that forever.

    I've seen the AI choose not to use All Tied Up at all and save it for Wind Storm.

    The AI has gotten smarter.
  • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,385 Site Admin
    djsquillz wrote:
    hes not boosted, hes broken. if his abilities arent working he way that they should, thats broken.

    i dont know anyhing about coding or rolling out apps, but i do know somwthing about quality and doing things the right way. this sounds like a tinykitty rush "fix" to something that imo the d3 demiurge team should step back from, hold the update, and fix so that things work as intended. marc
    The choice is between releasing R46 and having our next Episode roll out (new content!) and having one semi-broken but usable character or waiting another week/2 weeks with no new content so that one character stays fixed. One character, I may note, that many people don't have. And if they do, they don't have at a high enough level to make a huge impact on meta.
  • IceIX wrote:
    The choice is between releasing R46 and having our next Episode roll out (new content!) and having one semi-broken but usable character or waiting another week/2 weeks with no new content so that one character stays fixed. One character, I may note, that many people don't have. And if they do, they don't have at a high enough level to make a huge impact on meta.

    I think you thought it would be amusing to release him broken, so that he'd have to be... you know...
  • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,385 Site Admin
    Bugpop wrote:
    I think you thought it would be amusing to release him broken, so that he'd have to be... you know...
    In the land of "Devs always have ulterior motives" tinfoil hatting, sure. He was actually working when I checked in on him last too. I'd have to track down which change and when precisely the check-in went in that broke him. It's an honest (but bad) mistake from one of the coders that QA simply didn't catch in time to fix up before release without a resubmit. I'll note that it *was* caught while the patch was in submission. so it wasn't an out and out miss. But at that point it wasn't worth it to pull and fix as it would reset our position in the queue for build reviews with 1st parties. Which brings me back to the whole "need R46 for new stuff" part.
  • mischiefmakermischiefmaker Age Unconfirmed Posts: 932
    IceIX wrote:
    Bugpop wrote:
    I think you thought it would be amusing to release him broken, so that he'd have to be... you know...
    In the land of "Devs always have ulterior motives" tinfoil hatting, sure.

    I'm pretty sure Bugpop was making a "patch" joke. icon_e_smile.gif

    Also, hey! New content in R46! Hooray!
  • nihiliumnihilium Posts: 242
    nihilium wrote:
    Is there a good reason not to go 3/5/5?
    I somehow find his green skills on higher levels helps his enemies more than it helps him, since ill kinda kill his strike tiles for his Next moves, but leave all those stupid purple tiles behind....

    Or do i miss something and i actually CREATE green green tiles that could Cascade awesomely?

    well at max level rank 3 green would give you +444 damage instead of +888 at rank 5 which is a pretty huge difference and all the tiles he drops for the other team should be 74. id rather go 5/3/5 to have both the maximum amount of strike tiles and that insane 371 no condition healing.

    it should also work like **wolv's green where you need to have the required tiles open (no special) to get every last strike tile down. so if you have a rank 5 green and 6 open basic green tiles on the board and there are for the sake of argument only 3 open purple basic tiles then you would come out even further ahead even through there is the drawback of them getting tiles because you would be getting the 888 extra damage and they would only get 222 from the three 74 ones instead of 444 from six.

    have mercy on the enemy team's souls should you ever get 1 attack tile out with ***wolv's 6 strike tiles out since that'd be 1776 damage per turn from both the added damage on a match and to the attack tile.


    Ohh, I so forgot about the increase of the dmg with the number of covers o.o

    I guess green is the better ability than red? I find this "damage for each tile on the board that bears his icon" hard to assess, especially since I like to mix up my teams v.v
    But I sooo wouldnt want to cut back on yellow!

    So 5/3/5?
    Gosh, all those strike tiles and I justed maxed my 3/5/5 OBW... I sooooo wanna do that team o.o
    I wonder if hed team up nicely with Frank o.o
  • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,385 Site Admin
    I'm pretty sure Bugpop was making a "patch" joke. icon_e_smile.gif
    Hah! Didn't catch that. icon_e_smile.gif
  • Max green is definitely something I'm considering. If you use purple, i.e. Spidey taking up space with protect tiles, it shouldn't be an issue to use it when you can either prevent or clear the enemy's strike tiles. Spidey also does wonders with stun lock, I.e. strike tiles are pointless if you can't strike.
  • ICE, im not criticizing the decision here. i myself am a 4 cover level 30 patch owner and agree that letting him go for a few weeks broken wont make a huge difference on the meta.

    i was really attempting to speak to a larger point about things being done correctly rather than things appearing to be thrown together fast and sloppily.

    i also kniw that i am in the minority wih my desire here. i personally would rather wait 1/2 weeks for new content that is proper rather than to have some jurry-rigged solution.

    ill also be the first to say that i will 100% enjoy the "boosted" patch while he lasts. i plan to take full advantage of whatever benefits that he will provide me and my squad.

    i just wanted to put my thoughts out there about quality and what i think that they mean to this game.

    easy...marc
  • djsquillz wrote:
    ICE, im not criticizing the decision here. i myself am a 4 cover level 30 patch owner and agree that letting him go for a few weeks broken wont make a huge difference on the meta.

    i was really attempting to speak to a larger point about things being done correctly rather than things appearing to be thrown together fast and sloppily.

    i also kniw that i am in the minority wih my desire here. i personally would rather wait 1/2 weeks for new content that is proper rather than to have some jurry-rigged solution.

    ill also be the first to say that i will 100% enjoy the "boosted" patch while he lasts. i plan to take full advantage of whatever benefits that he will provide me and my squad.

    i just wanted to put my thoughts out there about quality and what i think that they mean to this game.

    easy...marc

    Lol, that's cute, somebody who admittedly has no background in software or coding would like every software release to be perfect. As IceIX said, this wasn't picked up during the tested cycle, so no bug was reported, so test sign off was achieved. Sure, they found the bug afterwards, but I would support the decision to distribute the release, as
    - This bug is non critical
    - Does not impact functionality.
    You're still getting the new content (new episode) that is proper, and there's no 'jury-rigging' of anything, there's just a low priorty defect that's been identified, and will be resolved in the next release.
    Also, if it the delay to get this non-critical bug fixed is 2 weeks, that means every schedule is pushed out two weeks, which means new characters and new episodes. There's obviously a lot more to consider than just 'oh, they've rushed a release out'.
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