**** Elektra (Unkillable) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Sandmaker

onimus wrote:

I don't think a countdown tile can be considered a situational ability. Especially one that gives true healing.

It's not the countdown that makes Recovery situational. It's the risk of it creating cascades for your opponents when matched. There's really only two situtations where using Recovery is optimal.

1.) You know you have the game in the bag and want to heal up for the next match.
2.) X-force is at immediate risk of dying without the heal.

If x-force is healthy and the game is close, it is almost always better to hold off using the ability so you don't risk throwing the match.

Unknown

The game is not always very clear on what happens to the 'do X, then Y' if X is not possible. We know if an ability is only 'do X' and X cannot be done then it can never be used. For example if there are no special tiles of any kind you can never use Settlement. If there are no enemy strike/protect tiles you can never use Trickery. There's going to be a lot of game where the first part of Double Double Cross can never be satisified, but I don't know if this means the second part gets executed regardless of whether the first part can be.

At any rate you'd need 14 purple to get any effect of Double Double Cross if the opponent cannot create a strike tile and while the numbers are still unknown at this point, that's enough to do Whales or Escape Plan, and it's hard to see the first real application of Double Double Cross being better than either of those abilities.

Phaserhawk

Well if she's like the other 4*'s it will be a massive upgrade at 5 covers. I'm guessing red does insane dmg, it seems to be roughly a 250% increase in dmg from stats for 4*'s if not more. So her red is going to do like 528 per tile and I"m guesing there is going to be 3 tiles that's 1.5K a turn. Her black will probably be doing 825 dmg if it goes off and I"m guessing you'll get 5 tiles if maxed and I"m guessing she'll increase tiles by 250 to 300 on her purple she looks fun but here are 3 things that keep her in check.

Double Double-Cross 7 ---- you need to have enemy tiles out to get it to work, this allows them to make this create some insane strike tiles because of the limiting factor

Shadow Step 10----You have to take dmg to get the traps to trigger, if they are matched it doesn't appear to do anything, thus if attacking into an Elektra and Shadow Step goes off you just don't attack her untl the end.

Ballet of Death --- The tiles do the dmg at the begning of the turn not the at the end like an attack tile would, that' means you could die before it resolves

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Well if she's like the other 4*'s it will be a massive upgrade at 5 covers. I'm guessing red does insane dmg, it seems to be roughly a 250% increase in dmg from stats for 4*'s if not more. So her red is going to do like 528 per tile and I"m guesing there is going to be 3 tiles that's 1.5K a turn. Her black will probably be doing 825 dmg if it goes off and I"m guessing you'll get 5 tiles if maxed and I"m guessing she'll increase tiles by 250 to 300 on her purple she looks fun but here are 3 things that keep her in check.

Double Double-Cross 7 ---- you need to have enemy tiles out to get it to work, this allows them to make this create some insane strike tiles because of the limiting factor

Shadow Step 10----You have to take dmg to get the traps to trigger, if they are matched it doesn't appear to do anything, thus if attacking into an Elektra and Shadow Step goes off you just don't attack her untl the end.

Ballet of Death --- The tiles do the dmg at the begning of the turn not the at the end like an attack tile would, that' means you could die before it resolves

Didn't they already say red is about 1000 damage when maxed? That seems pretty reasonable as an estimate. Black is 3 traps at level 3 doing like 350 damage and I don't see either number going up significantly. If purple is 300 strike strength, why use it over Escape Plan which can is cheaper and stronger on any opponent that do not normally create strike tile (assuming her purple is even usable against characters without strike tiles)? Or Whales? It's 14 purple to use Double Double Cross on anyone who doesn't create strike tiles and that's an optimistic view, as it's entirely possible you simply can't use it at all.

Nonce Equitaur 2

For a new 4*, she looks terrible.


[anchor=elektra4]Elektra (Unkillable)[/anchor] :elektra:
3 Star Rarity (legendary) Discussion link. Wiki link.
At Max Level: HP: 10960 Tile Damage: 11/64/10/82/09/73/3.0

Double Double-Cross 7
Elektra has "defected" to the enemy team, working for them while feeding her true allies powerful information. Steals a strike tile, improving strength by 55. Converts 3 basic Purple tiles to strength 9 enemy strike tiles.

Level 2: Increases stolen strike tile strength by 95 Level 3: Level 4: Level 5:

Max Level:

If the enemy team hasn't put out any strike tiles, I suppose this ability is unusable. Daken, Blade, and Falcon all seem to be better, and their powers are passives. Elektra needs to expend 3 turns to get 7 . Blade, for 3 more, puts out 2024 points of attack tiles to go with his heap of strike tiles, and his ability can't be trivially shut down by the enemy selecting opponents that don't use strike tiles.

Shadow Step 10
Elektra senses an attack coming and prepares to dodge into the shadows. She converts 2 random basic Black tiles into Trap tiles. If Elektra would take damage, the damage in negated and a Trap tile is destroyed, generating AP and dealing 137 damage.

Level 2: Trap tiles deal 301 dmg Level 3: Level 4: Level 5:

Max Level:

Rotate Elektra to the front and hit her with tile match damage. Human Torch alone can hit her with a flame jet, tile match, fireball, and attack tiles all in one turn. This ability is useless as written.

Ballet of Death 10
Death is a dance and only Elektra knows the next step. She converts a random Red basic tile into a trap tile. It deals 137 damage to the target enemy at the beginning of every turn.

Level 2: Trap tile deals 192 dmg every turn. Level 3: Level 4: Level 5:

Max Level:

Has the same problem Daredevil had -- easy to overwrite Trap tiles. Daken and Blade Are particularly dangerous for her. Doom and Human Torch are also good since they mess with Red and don't put out Strike tiles.


She looks like an old Daredevil redux, facing all the problems he used to face. Her Red and Black powers are slow, easily countered, and likely ignorable.

Spoit

I dunno about stunned, but DD always crotchkicked on cascades after he was killed by the match damage for the initial match

Phaserhawk

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

For a new 4*, she looks terrible.


[anchor=elektra4]Elektra (Unkillable)[/anchor] :elektra:
3 Star Rarity (legendary) Discussion link. Wiki link.
At Max Level: HP: 10960 Tile Damage: 11/64/10/82/09/73/3.0

Double Double-Cross 7
Elektra has "defected" to the enemy team, working for them while feeding her true allies powerful information. Steals a strike tile, improving strength by 55. Converts 3 basic Purple tiles to strength 9 enemy strike tiles.

Level 2: Increases stolen strike tile strength by 95 Level 3: Level 4: Level 5:

Max Level:

If the enemy team hasn't put out any strike tiles, I suppose this ability is unusable. Daken, Blade, and Falcon all seem to be better, and their powers are passives. Elektra needs to expend 3 turns to get 7 . Blade, for 3 more, puts out 2024 points of attack tiles to go with his heap of strike tiles, and his ability can't be trivially shut down by the enemy selecting opponents that don't use strike tiles.

Shadow Step 10
Elektra senses an attack coming and prepares to dodge into the shadows. She converts 2 random basic Black tiles into Trap tiles. If Elektra would take damage, the damage in negated and a Trap tile is destroyed, generating AP and dealing 137 damage.

Level 2: Trap tiles deal 301 dmg Level 3: Level 4: Level 5:

Max Level:

Rotate Elektra to the front and hit her with tile match damage. Human Torch alone can hit her with a flame jet, tile match, fireball, and attack tiles all in one turn. This ability is useless as written.

Ballet of Death 10
Death is a dance and only Elektra knows the next step. She converts a random Red basic tile into a trap tile. It deals 137 damage to the target enemy at the beginning of every turn.

Level 2: Trap tile deals 192 dmg every turn. Level 3: Level 4: Level 5:

Max Level:

Has the same problem Daredevil had -- easy to overwrite Trap tiles. Daken and Blade Are particularly dangerous for her. Doom and Human Torch are also good since they mess with Red and don't put out Strike tiles.


She looks like an old Daredevil redux, facing all the problems he used to face. Her Red and Black powers are slow, easily countered, and likely ignorable.

While Blade and Daken hurt her on Ballet of Death, they also are the most affected by Double Cross as she could effectively rip them a new one if lvl 5 Double Cross is insane. What if it gave her Sentry level strike tiles but multipe? I think she would be scary

Unknown

I noticed there was some confusion going on in this thread and wanted to jump in and hopefully clear up some questions. Elektra's abilities are definitely more complicated than usual, and without the ability to play her and see for yourself (yet) it's hard to figure out exactly what to expect.

Double-Double Cross - This ability will fire, even if the enemy doesn't have any strike tiles. Without getting into too much detail, the Strike tile she steals is worth more than giving the enemy 5 (if you fire it twice).

Shadow Step - This ability blocks damage completely. If the attack only targets Elektra, no one takes the damage. If the attack is AOE, everyone but Elektra will take damage. When the tile triggers, it deals substantial damage back to the enemy and generates 1 Black AP. Nothing happens when these trap tiles get matched away.

Ballet of Death - Damage is dealt at the beginning of the turn, instead of at the end, like regular attack tiles. Nothing happens when these trap tiles get matched away.

Hopefully that will help your discussion. If you're not sure you like her, just wait till you can play with her! Hopefully she can win your appreciation.

turul

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

I noticed there was some confusion going on in this thread and wanted to jump in and hopefully clear up some questions. Elektra's abilities are definitely more complicated than usual, and without the ability to play her and see for yourself (yet) it's hard to figure out exactly what to expect.

Double-Double Cross - This ability will fire, even if the enemy doesn't have any strike tiles. Without getting into too much detail, the Strike tile she steals is worth more than giving the enemy 5 (if you fire it twice).

Shadow Step - This ability blocks damage completely. If the attack only targets Elektra, no one takes the damage. If the attack is AOE, everyone but Elektra will take damage. When the tile triggers, it deals substantial damage back to the enemy and generates 1 Black AP. Nothing happens when these trap tiles get matched away.

Ballet of Death - Damage is dealt at the beginning of the turn, instead of at the end, like regular attack tiles. Nothing happens when these trap tiles get matched away.

Hopefully that will help your discussion. If you're not sure you like her, just wait till you can play with her! Hopefully she can win your appreciation.

Why not post full ability stats?

So single use: just enemy recieves strike tiles - second use: steal & enhance X number of strike tiles + create enemy strikes again

trap tiles are destroyed - when does this happen, on enemy or player turn?

so is the max damage of this at cover 5 / lvl 270 : about 1000 dmg? Lot of "lesser" heroes create more reliable and stronger attack tiles (basically same in current meta) stronger. Doom, Strom, Blade, etc.

Nonce Equitaur 2

turul wrote:

Why not post full ability stats?

As a general rule ....

If a character is great, the full character stats will be posted before the character is released.
If a character is terrible, the full character stats have to be hobbled together by hand by the players.

Unknown

So purple is at least usable instead of sitting on dead AP like Settlement or Trickery but you're still looking at 14 purple to make your first strike tile in most cases, so unless it's something like 800 strength it will lose to stuff like Escape Plan or Whales in most reasonable scenarios.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

turul wrote:

Why not post full ability stats?

As a general rule ....

If a character is great, the full character stats will be posted before the character is released.
If a character is terrible, the full character stats have to be hobbled together by hand by the players.

And since Colo posted he doesn't have the iso to max her out, it must be part of a plot to keep players in the dark.

NorthernPolarity

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

I noticed there was some confusion going on in this thread and wanted to jump in and hopefully clear up some questions. Elektra's abilities are definitely more complicated than usual, and without the ability to play her and see for yourself (yet) it's hard to figure out exactly what to expect.

Double-Double Cross - This ability will fire, even if the enemy doesn't have any strike tiles. Without getting into too much detail, the Strike tile she steals is worth more than giving the enemy 5 (if you fire it twice).

Shadow Step - This ability blocks damage completely. If the attack only targets Elektra, no one takes the damage. If the attack is AOE, everyone but Elektra will take damage. When the tile triggers, it deals substantial damage back to the enemy and generates 1 Black AP. Nothing happens when these trap tiles get matched away.

Ballet of Death - Damage is dealt at the beginning of the turn, instead of at the end, like regular attack tiles. Nothing happens when these trap tiles get matched away.

Hopefully that will help your discussion. If you're not sure you like her, just wait till you can play with her! Hopefully she can win your appreciation.

Thanks for the clarifications! One quick question regarding purple: when you cast it the first time on a board with no strike tiles, what happens is that you give the enemy strike tiles but don't steal any right? The only time you steal a tile is when you cast it twice?

Unknown

The two effects are simultaneous. So you steal 1 and give 3 at the same time. If there's nothing to steal, you just give 3. I suppose if there were no available purple tiles, you could steal 1 and give none.

CrookedKnight

Hmmmm. So if we use a high level Berserker Rage to fill the purple tiles with strike tiles, then use DDC to steal those tiles...

turul

Is she going to steal only 1 strike tile up until cover 5?

smoq84

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

The two effects are simultaneous. So you steal 1 and give 3 at the same time. If there's nothing to steal, you just give 3. I suppose if there were no available purple tiles, you could steal 1 and give none.

I can imagine how it will be often used by AI - just giving free strike tiles to the enemy... It will make her terrible in defense...

Unknown

smoq84 wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

The two effects are simultaneous. So you steal 1 and give 3 at the same time. If there's nothing to steal, you just give 3. I suppose if there were no available purple tiles, you could steal 1 and give none.

I can imagine how it will be often used by AI - just giving free strike tiles to the enemy... It will make her terrible in defense...

Yay a use for devil dinosaur's purple!!! oh wait!

orbitalint

smoq84 wrote:

I can imagine how it will be often used by AI - just giving free strike tiles to the enemy... It will make her terrible in defense...

I don't know about that. At level 2, without any strike tiles on the board, she will spit out 27 points of strike damage against you. On her 2nd casting, she'll convert one of them for you, boost it 95 and spit out 3 more weak ones for them (It's 104 damage for you on the board, 45 for them, atm). On 3rd casting, 208 vs 63 assuming it can keep making enemy strike tiles on an available purple.

We don't know how it scales/changes with more covers but for 14 purple AP, you are getting double the damage from your strike tiles than them. If covers do even more boosting on the conversion, I could see a 300+ strike tile to their 50 combined strike tiles and it is going to add up fast. Particularly if you have her red going.

Go against a strike tile generator (cough, Daken) and the advantage piles up from the beginning for only 7 AP. I don't know how she'll play either but defense doesn't seem to be an issue since she doesn't have to rely on someone else to make enemy strike tiles for her to convert and be useful.

Phaserhawk

meanwhile why you are trying to get 14 Purple to double cast and try to create powerful strike tiles all this is happening.

1. The AI will be matching black, red, green, yellow

2. Those tiles could get destroyed

3. You could of cast Whales for more damage to the enemy then it would take you to direct damage 3 guys seperately.