So, post-sentry-nerf, who even comes close to XForce?

Phaserhawk

Is X-Force currently the best option right now? probably

Is X-Force as scary to deal with as Sentry? not really

For both if they get Supernova or Surgical Strike off it's gonna hurt

World Rupture isn't always bad as long as no strike tiles out, X-Force hurts

Sacrfice is very painful especially with cascades, Recovery, nothing to worry about.

Barring a bad cascade, an X-Force is fairly easy to deal with and only wipes out one guy not a team.

Raekwen

Phantron wrote:

I feel that a lot of this anti X Force advice seems to be against those random level 170 X Force that are 3/3/3 and don't have any of his vital skills maxed out. Yeah those guys aren't really that hard to beat at all. If X Force is so easy I suggest fighting the Sentry + X Force + Doom essential node currently in the hard simulator sub. X Force does close to 5K after counting the tile damage and cascade damage (but not any additional damage by AP gained from cascades) for 8g, which is in the realm of Call the Storm but it's all focused on one guy. Surgical Strike will do about 5K damage too on a normal board (destroy 9 tiles for 4500 + 500 worth of cascade) and in most team configuration you'll immediately eat another 3 match+ move from the AP gained for similar damage. Then there's the fact that both move cause significant cascades that can often be game ending in itself. Yes a lot of time I take a X Force and it turns out it was only level 3 so nothing bad happened since level 3 X Force does less than half the damage compared to level 5 X Force, and same for Surgical Strike. But there are 5/5/3 X Forces out there.

Raekwen wrote:

Sentry bombing max XForce has never been an issue.

You can feel that way all you want, but that doesn't make it true. Phaser is right, as it sits, I would rather face a max XForce than a Sentry. But either shouldn't be an issue unless something goes horribly wrong. Surgical Strike can be a move that kills the entire other team for all I care, if it gets to the point that he is getting that off.. well, I reference back to the horribly wrong. But a 5/5/3 XForce? All day long. After the Sentry change maybe that leans a bit, but I don't think it will be as far as everyone thinks.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Is X-Force as scary to deal with as Sentry? not really

...Are you **** high? On defense? **** you. YES. IN SPADES. Jesus **** christ, dude, lrn2play MPQ. Christ on a bike DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MPQ?!

/drunk as ****

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Is X-Force as scary to deal with as Sentry? not really

...Are you tinykitty high? On defense? tinykitty you. YES. IN SPADES. Jesus tinykitty christ, dude, lrn2play MPQ. Christ on a bike DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MPQ?!

/drunk as tinykitty

Now don't hold back. Please, tell us how you REALLY feel.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

If X Force is so easy I suggest fighting the Sentry + X Force + Doom essential node currently in the hard simulator sub.

I wolloped this node up and down and sideways all event. Not that hard. I have 4 Sentry, 3 X Force, and 2 Doom TUs to show for it, after using a few during the event as well, highest level 235, lowest 109.

X-Force is not that hard to figure out. Take all the Green and enough black to stop SS, and use it to beat him in the face. A difficult to beat X-Force team will have a Red/Yellow user (currently poplar with C.Mags, but I dunno why more people don't run X-Force Thor), but even then.


People who can beat X-Force: hell, even .

pofruin

Lerysh wrote:

Phantron wrote:

If X Force is so easy I suggest fighting the Sentry + X Force + Doom essential node currently in the hard simulator sub.

I wolloped this node up and down and sideways all event. Not that hard. I have 4 Sentry, 3 X Force, and 2 Doom TUs to show for it, after using a few during the event as well, highest level 235, lowest 109.

X-Force is not that hard to figure out. Take all the Green and enough black to stop SS, and use it to beat him in the face. A difficult to beat X-Force team will have a Red/Yellow user (currently poplar with C.Mags, but I dunno why more people don't run X-Force Thor), but even then.


People who can beat X-Force: hell, even .

Add to that that this node was cleared with more than 50 percent sertainty by Cstorm+MNM combo with one blue purple boost and GSBW+spidy with no boosts. I havent seen him go off SS even once. The times where I lost where more like when Sentry and Xforce bit the ground I ran out of gas and Doom killed me... And mega lucky cascades, but those killed me with doc oc torch and loky node so not saying much there.

Unknown

Unknown

Question : what can beat a cover maxed xforce consistently?

Answer : any sensible maxed 3* pairing.

Reason : the ai is ****. As long as you are not **** you'll be fine.


You're welcome!!!!!

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

Question : what can beat a cover maxed xforce consistently?

Answer : any sensible maxed 3* pairing.

Reason : the ai is ****. As long as you are not **** you'll be fine.


You're welcome!!!!!

The AI may be ****, but it keeps getting 11 black AP, somehow.

Bowgentle

pofruin wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

Phantron wrote:

If X Force is so easy I suggest fighting the Sentry + X Force + Doom essential node currently in the hard simulator sub.

I wolloped this node up and down and sideways all event. Not that hard. I have 4 Sentry, 3 X Force, and 2 Doom TUs to show for it, after using a few during the event as well, highest level 235, lowest 109.

X-Force is not that hard to figure out. Take all the Green and enough black to stop SS, and use it to beat him in the face. A difficult to beat X-Force team will have a Red/Yellow user (currently poplar with C.Mags, but I dunno why more people don't run X-Force Thor), but even then.


People who can beat X-Force: hell, even .

Add to that that this node was cleared with more than 50 percent sertainty by Cstorm+MNM combo with one blue purple boost and GSBW+spidy with no boosts. I havent seen him go off SS even once. The times where I lost where more like when Sentry and Xforce bit the ground I ran out of gas and Doom killed me... And mega lucky cascades, but those killed me with doc oc torch and loky node so not saying much there.

My starting levels for the XForce/Sentry/Doom node were 280.
I think they went as high as 331 before I stopped playing this node.

Please tell me how you beat that node at level 331 with CStorm/MNM.

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

The AI may be ****, but it keeps getting 11 black AP, somehow.

Occassionally it will, sure. That'll be the case sometimes either through lucky cascades or a favourable board. Even if the AI does get off a SS then that's an average of 4-5k damage and subsequent damage dependent on how favourable the AP generation is for the AI's use.

What are we suggesting here? That the most vicious 4* currently in the game shouldn't be dangerous because 'losing is bad'?

X-Force should be the most powerful offensive character in the current game. I don't see the problem. Sure, there should be better balance in the current 4* roster (IW exaggerates this) but I'm sure that will come as new ones are added. Thorette will certainly make X-Force seem more 'normal' for his rarity.

Unknown

Now that i'm on a PC rather than using my phone i'll be a bit more constructively useful .

Part of the reason XForce seems so painful is because he's so popular (at top end .... well people use their **** lvl 150-ish Xforce with too few covers to be useful as well but that's a seperate issue....). That means on those occasions where you lose to a cascade there is a decent chance it's vs an XForce because you're facing them so much.

Next part is i'll bet that the people with their lvl 270 fully covered XForce are more likely to have a fully covered, well levelled required hero. So a fair number of the ppl complaining about losing to an Xforce are using a significantly worse featured hero but not factoring it into their reasoning.

Finally... i'll stand by what I said about any sensible 3* pairing being able to consistently beat a maxed XForce. I would expect that UNLESS there is a nasty cascade that I have no way to predict I can comfortably get 20+ AP in two useful colours for me before the ai can get to either 8 green or 11 black (although it does require me to be getting use from either green or black since i'll be denying them) and with maxed damage dealing 3* heroes that should do the trick for downing XForce (along with match damage).

It also helps that I can bring along useful TUs (1 purple OBW steal for example) thanks to getting them from my awesome alliance members (we've been making spare characters for guaranteed good TUs).

Finally...Finally.... I can use boosts if I want. I don't think you need boosts to win but you do if you want to win with minimal damage and sustain play. XForce's main defensive value is the threat of getting off an XForce and doing 4.5k ish damage which is a pain in the rear rather than actually beating you. In that respect he's a deadpool with a bigger health pool (a little off the top FTW).

A bit more wordy than my first response but the same general theme. Xforce is a good character who is probably slightly better than any single 3* hero but certainly not by enough to overcome the benefits a player has over the AI.

pofruin

Bowgentle wrote:

My starting levels for the XForce/Sentry/Doom node were 280.
I think they went as high as 331 before I stopped playing this node.

Please tell me how you beat that node at level 331 with CStorm/MNM.

I also have rather well developed roster (nearing my dinos at supply) and the answer is simple: with a little bit of luck. To be fair the third one in that combo want dead weigth: it was max covered Hood it if I remeber correctly.

The idea is harder to describe since its not simple matter of merely getting few abilityes off and you win. between 3 of them they have 5 ap gain skills. First thing is firing MNM's rather than merely gathering blue you also try to make matches to either get most lines cleared or get cascades. next depending on situation if there is more purple collected go for it if not then green, if none either TU yellow or black to have Hood tank it. Always grab 4 lines if available nevermind the colors (obviuos). In few matches whatever comes next you use your next ap gain skill: if Storms then you need more luck if MNM same situation as before. Eventualy due to cascades and collateral destruction you will get TU, Yellow or Red. If the board is safe go red, on this team I usd red+intimidate quite a few times. One skill leads to another and eventualy atleast two of the enemy party are stunned. When one falls you just keep one that can fire off something dangerous asleep. I havent used alot of TUs here but i ususaly use aditional stun or ap gain.

In the end oposition gets way less turns than you efectively get. And the damage from them is not that small: MNM on average deals 1K dmg (criticals). Thats while not even looking for it. Matches, Windstorms, Lighnings all add up that you do much more damage than they do.

Fully boosted (+3 blue and Purple, +3 all, all match damage up) with anyone to tank Purple (Spidy for exapmle ) was enough to clear 395 node in gauntlet. And im not sure I Needed all that boosts sinve fell like sacks of potatoes...

Unknown

DrUnpleasant wrote:

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

The AI may be ****, but it keeps getting 11 black AP, somehow.

Occassionally it will, sure. That'll be the case sometimes either through lucky cascades or a favourable board. Even if the AI does get off a SS then that's an average of 4-5k damage and subsequent damage dependent on how favourable the AP generation is for the AI's use.

Almost always, it's 5k+, then basically whatever the AI wants to throw at you. If the team composition isn't awful, you're usually talking at least another 3-4k from a secondary character. If the strongest color is green, you're just downright ****. And this can happen off a random cascade. Easily. In fact, just now it happened. What followed? Well, it immediately downed my LThor, and then he threw out a Star Spangled Avenger, killing my hood. At which point I had a loaner Spidey left, who promptly died to me not giving a **** and turning the game off. Keep in mind that despite my best efforts of matching black (which is a problem because none of my maxed 3*s can actually use black AP to any decent degree), this happens about every two games. At this point, I'm about ready to just quit.

What are we suggesting here? That the most vicious 4* currently in the game shouldn't be dangerous because 'losing is bad'?

No, what we are suggesting here is that the most vicious 4* currently in the game is head and shoulders beyond the rest of the cast! Hell, compare him to the previous "idiot-proof" AI monster, Thor. XForce has more health, does more damage (no matter how you stack it, X-Force is simply better than Call The Storm), generates more AP and cascades, AND has massive true healing. There is nothing in the game that even comes close to how busted this is.

The comparison to 2*s vs. 3*s is apt. XForce pretty much is to 3* Thor as 3* Thor is to 2* Thor. The problem with this is that it's phenomenally broken. It throws a monkey wrench in the workings of the game, because getting 4* covers is not like getting 3* covers. Getting 3* covers with a 2* roster is easy. Getting 4* covers with a 3* roster is not. You either have to climb to 1300, or you have to win your bracket. If you don't have a maxed Xforce, beating someone in your bracket who does and who wants to win is like pulling teeth, for the same reason it would be if you only had 2*s and there was a guy in your bracket running Patch. Hitting 1300 without Sentry or XForce is possible, but a nightmare. Getting 4*s is virtually a matter of luck. The progression basically falls apart. It'd be one thing if Xforce was just "the best". But he's head and shoulders above everyone else. Even the other 4*s. Nick Fury is a much better example - far more in line with other 3*s. You cannot have 4*s be a level above 3*s the same way 3*s are a level above 2*s. It's phenomenally bad for the game.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and to those proposing MNMags+CStorm: boosted, they can beat almost any team in the game with a little luck. Can. Shame the first thing anyone thinks when they see them is "ooh, easy points!".

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

Question : what can beat a cover maxed xforce consistently?

Answer : any sensible maxed 3* pairing.

Reason : the ai is ****. As long as you are not **** you'll be fine.


You're welcome!!!!!

The AI may be ****, but it keeps getting 11 black AP, somehow.

If this is your problem then you are not following maxim number 2, take enough black to prevent SS. Ideally you want a black user to throw that back in his face, but if not, well hopefully you at least have Daken or something for black match damage. I've used BP enough to know it can be hard to get that last black match for a 12 point ability, same is true of 11 point, especially if you actively deny it.

PvE is easier because you don't need to worry about retaliation. I beat up the node with and quite easily. Sentry with WR and Sacrifice is still an option too, even post nerf, it's just slower.

The 2* to 3* comparison you keep drawing and calling accurate isn't really seen as a problem in this game, more like a fact of life for this game. If you have 2* rosters you score about 500 in PvP and have trouble beating 3* teams. If you have 3* roster you CAN score 1300 for 4* covers, and you have trouble beating a 270 X-Force. It's not bad game design, or even something the can or want to fix, it's just tier oppression. 4*s oppress 3*, and 3* oppress 2*s. Part of the game.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

If this is your problem then you are not following maxim number 2, take enough black to prevent SS.

In one of my most recent matches, the AI matched a blue, then proceeded to cascade, off the top of the board, into a solid 14 black AP.

Your maxim is ****.

The 2* to 3* comparison you keep drawing and calling accurate isn't really seen as a problem in this game, more like a fact of life for this game. If you have 2* rosters you score about 500 in PvP and have trouble beating 3* teams. If you have 3* roster you CAN score 1300 for 4* covers, and you have trouble beating a 270 X-Force. It's not bad game design, or even something the can or want to fix, it's just tier oppression. 4*s oppress 3*, and 3* oppress 2*s. Part of the game.

...Yeah, have fun with that after sentry gets nerfed and every node past a thousand is XForce.

Unknown

Soooo, just for **** and giggles I decided to smash up some high level X-Force / Hood teams with Human Torch / Hood / Spiderman (lv100 spidey no less) then smash up X-Force with Hulk / LThor etc etc etc.

Obviously I then went on a rampage killing high level Sentrybomb teams with X-Force, and then my own Sentrybomb team against X-Force.

About 11 straight wins against X-Force (6 matches) and Sentrybomb (5 matches) teams without loss, sometimes using some more random selections like BP, LCap etc. I really don't see a problem unless the AI gets lucky. I think I came close to losing one match when the AI got me down to fairly low health. Yeah, the silly level Sentry, X-Force node in the Simulator was almost trollish in it's difficulty but thats the exception rather than the rule.

X-Force is the strongest character in the game. But someone has to be, and I don't think he'll be on his own after Thorette goes into wider release.

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

If this is your problem then you are not following maxim number 2, take enough black to prevent SS.

In one of my most recent matches, the AI matched a blue, then proceeded to cascade, off the top of the board, into a solid 14 black AP.

Your maxim is ****.

Ok, but you lose that match no matter WHO you are facing. Cascades happen, you can't really compare a cascade loss to "this character is overpowered".

You are assuming something will happen that may not happen as well. There are 270 X-Forces out there but they aren't far and wide. Why would every node over 1000 be an X-Force pairing? You clearly have it in your head that Sentry nerf is going to destroy your end game PvP. X-Force is not unbeatable, not even 50% unbeatable. If you think he is, get ready to love the skip button.

Unknown

People seem to assume just because Storm works on say a level 200 version of Sentry or X force it must also work when they're level 280 or 330. It doesn't work like that. At 330 you're looking at something like 12K/15K/19K and even if you start with 3 Wind Storms they'll still be at over half health and you'd have absolutely nothing left in the tank after starting with an improbable amount of blue AP. Sentry + X Force + Doom is nowhere that hard in terms of what they could be, especially since they don't have The Hood because you must use The Hood on that node. I beat that node plenty of times but it's always a couple turns away from utter disaster and quite a few times it was just an utter disaster from the start. By the way even at that elevated level, X Force could be level 270 when used by a player so while Sentry/Doom does have an unreasonable amount of HP in that node, X Force most definitely does not. That team covers red/green/yellow/blue/black so unless your strategy is hope the AI matches TU and purple the whole game, there's no 'deny'. You can only hope you can kill X Force really fast and then get rid of Sentry before he does any of his moves (good luck), and that's having The Hood on your side while the other side does not. This is almost never going to happen in PvP simply because Sentry/X Force represents a high amount of investment and is almost certainly going to be flanked by The Hood.

You might have some success in Web-Slinger because Sentry/Hood or X Force/Hood means there is only one person who can attack on the entire team and you can probably deny 2 colors. Usually the featured character isn't a complete deadweight like Spiderman is. No they're usually not that great either, but it's pretty hard to find a guy who contributes absolutely to offense like Spiderman too. For example in the Captain Marvel event, while Photonic Blast isn't anything worth writing home about, if you Surgical into red you'd still usually get 2 Photonic Blast off for around 3K damage, and that's a pretty bad red power too.

Unknown

While I agree scaling makes some characters more ridiculous than others (Juggernaut) the OPs main concern seems to be 270 and his use of to ruin your day. My answer of "well just don't let him ruin your day" has been discarded out of hand because if you can't win in 3 moves you can't win in PvP apparently.

270 may pose a challenge, but it's not an unbeatable one. I guess my response at this point is just suck it up and play the game.

Hell, the daily giveaway gives you one of every X-Force cover, so anyone who wants one can save or buy the to have a 5/5/3.