So, post-sentry-nerf, who even comes close to XForce?

Unknown

Serious question. XForce is the best in the game now. No question. Way more, way faster damage than any other character in the cast, some of the best utility, and cascades for days. Has insane synergy with Hood, C.Mags, Thor (either), Deadpool, and Mystique. One bad cascade will ruin your day in a way no other character can really match.

Here's the questions: by how much, and what do you run if you don't have him?

I think Thor/Hood is a viable contender. Considerably slower (8 AP to really **** up a character is kinda hard to top), but with the potential to be about as explosive, and similar life pools. Blade plus Tank (Thor/Patch/Hulk) would be nice, if anyone other than whales (who already have XForce anyways) could have more than a handful of covers. BP competes on black, but ROTP only knocks off maybe a third of XForce's life bar, and giving him 5 green AP is a recipe for disaster.

I think XForce will become just about as dominant in the meta as Sentry was. For different reasons obviously - Sentry broke shieldhopping in an irreparable way, but XForce is simply "the most efficient" - to the point where I'm honestly left wondering - does any team have a better than 50-50 chance against XForce/CMags or XForce/Hood other than Sentry? I don't think so.

Seriously - I have a decent 3* roster, and my Xforce is missing a few covers. For those I need 1300 points, or to win my bracket. Neither is happening when I hit a wall of Xforce, because literally the only team I have found that can beat XForce/Hood consistently is Sentry/Hood. Everything else, I have to get really ****' lucky.

Unknown

I currently run Daken/Patch/Guest quite frequently up to the point when I start shield hopping. They are fast and reliable (no )

For shield hopping, Sentry/Hood and 6 5 is probably still the best/fastest. It only takes 1 more match than it use to take, and 1 more CD turn, which you can eliminate with Intimidation. I often waited a turn to cast WR anyway to collect black.

There are plenty of other viable teams tho, BP/Thor, BP/Hulk, Patch/Loki, LCap/Punisher. Almost any team really can get the job done up to 700 points. Once you start speed is the key. While Sentry isn't stupid fast anymore he's still pretty fast. With boosts you can use Patch/Daken to be about as fast, which was the idea behind the nerf to Sentry I think. Now he's in the realm of "reasonable".

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

I currently run Daken/Patch/Guest quite frequently up to the point when I start shield hopping. They are fast and reliable (no )

...And you can consistently beat maxed Xforce teams with that?

Unknown

I think we'll still see a lot of Sentry, but Thor/Daken and Thor/Hood teams will make a little bit of a comeback for people who don't have XForce... of course, especially with lazyThor in the vault, we're going to continue to see a lot of people with UNcovered XForces using them as well.

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

I currently run Daken/Patch/Guest quite frequently up to the point when I start shield hopping. They are fast and reliable (no )

...And you can consistently beat maxed Xforce teams with that?

Sure, why not? Take all the Green, enough black to stop SS, 5 Blue, use CR on X-Force, use BR on X-Force, match a cascade match (preferably with pink s), X-Force is dead. Kill everyone else. It's pretty easy actually. Note: my patch is 5:3:5 and I don't rely in TBTI to murder people. More like 4000 bonus damage if I happen to get 14 red.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

I currently run Daken/Patch/Guest quite frequently up to the point when I start shield hopping. They are fast and reliable (no )

...And you can consistently beat maxed Xforce teams with that?

Sure, why not? Take all the Green, enough black to stop SS, 5 Blue, use CR on X-Force, use BR on X-Force, match a cascade match (preferably with pink s), X-Force is dead. Kill everyone else. It's pretty easy actually. Note: my patch is 5:3:5 and I don't rely in TBTI to murder people. More like 4000 bonus damage if I happen to get 14 red.

That's optimistic. See, here's the thing - if that XForce/Hood team hits 11 black AP, you're SOL. Patch's strongest color is green. If he's your left 166 and your guest isn't higher-level, you're giving XForce a ton of green, and setting your main attack back. Also, all your Rage strike tiles are gone. If Daken is to the left, it's even worse - Daken's strongest color is Black. Which means he gets to chain Surgical Strikes. Getting hit by Surgical Strike is always gonna suck; with Daken and Patch, it's super nasty. I mean, if you say you do well with that team, okay. I'll have to level my Daken, because he's missing some covers and a whole mess of ISO.

Unknown

If Sentry/Hood hits 8 Yellow and 12 Green you are SOL also. If Thor hits 14 green you are SOL also. If BP hits 12 black you are SOL also. If Deadpool gets 6 red you are at least down a Almost like this is a puzzle strategy game where you can not guarantee the outcome.

Asking who can beat X-Force is kind of a silly concept, since he's the main viable 4* at the moment. It's like asking which 2* team (Ares and OBW) can beat 166 teams. You can either skip 270 X-Force or take your chances with lower tier heroes. You can basically count on a retaliation hit from them too. I hit them when I am shield hopping or when I plan to shield out the duration, I skip them if I don't feel like taking the risk.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

If Sentry/Hood hits 8 Yellow and 12 Green you are SOL also. If Thor hits 14 green you are SOL also. If BP hits 12 black you are SOL also. If Deadpool gets 6 red you are at least down a Almost like this is a puzzle strategy game where you can not guarantee the outcome.

I mean on defense. Sentry/Hood has no clue how to use sentry bombing on defense. And yes, it sucks to get hit by CTS or RotP... But Surgical Strike sucks more. And is cheaper than either.

Asking who can beat X-Force is kind of a silly concept, since he's the main viable 4* at the moment. It's like asking which 2* team (Ares and OBW) can beat 166 teams. You can either skip 270 X-Force or take your chances with lower tier heroes. You can basically count on a retaliation hit from them too. I hit them when I am shield hopping or when I plan to shield out the duration, I skip them if I don't feel like taking the risk.

The bolded is exactly my point. The italics is exactly what's never going to happen, ever, past 900 points now. You know how, in the past, you'd have to search for ages for something other than Sentry? Well, now that's Xforce. And while Sentry on defense was a pain, he was reasonably beatable. He wasn't like XForce. The analogy to 2*s is absolutely valid, IMO. Except that 2* teams can gain 3* covers. How the hell do you win brackets filled with people who have XForce?

ThatOneGuyjp189512

No one is gonna be a good X-Force counter post sentry nerf, Sentry can still beat him....just a lot slower and more risk cause you'll be out so much. The only one i could maybe see as a decent counter would be Goddess of Thunder and hardly anyone outside the heavy hitters will have her maxed anytime soon. So basically you're really taking your chances, if he gets even a small cascade of green(say 2 matches) you might as well retreat cause between the damage and cascades you're done.

Unknown

3* teams can shield hop enough to get 1300, even if you don't win. Therefore 3* teams can win 4* covers. If you assume 1) 900 points before you begin hopping and 2) 50 ish points per hop at 75 per shield thats 8 shields for 600 if you avoid buying . A reasonable discount on the 2500 a 4* would normally cost (and you get a bonus 3* on the way). It's not something you want to do every time but it is something you can do whenever the X-Force color you want comes up.

At 40 points per shield you need 10 shields for 750 , still reasonable. Two fights a shield hop is possible with almost any team.

If you want to know how to win 4* covers without shields or with only one 8 hour or 3 hour shield, well, you really can't. Just because Sentry is worse at it now doesn't mean shield hopping won't still dominate PvP. It will.

Unknown

It's as if you considered Sentry dead, which is not the case and bombing is still effective anyway.
Plus XF is a 4*, he SHOULD be better that most if not all 3*. As a 3* is compared to most 2*.
And a green cascade from Sentry will also ruin your day.
If you cant be beat xf/hood with something else than Sentry, something's wrong with you, not XF. My 188 FX/hood gets defeated by quite a lot of different teams.

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Serious question. XForce is the best in the game now. No question. Way more, way faster damage than any other character in the cast, some of the best utility, and cascades for days. Has insane synergy with Hood, C.Mags, Thor (either), Deadpool, and Mystique. One bad cascade will ruin your day in a way no other character can really match.

Here's the questions: by how much, and what do you run if you don't have him?

I think Thor/Hood is a viable contender. Considerably slower (8 AP to really tinykitty up a character is kinda hard to top), but with the potential to be about as explosive, and similar life pools. Blade plus Tank (Thor/Patch/Hulk) would be nice, if anyone other than whales (who already have XForce anyways) could have more than a handful of covers. BP competes on black, but ROTP only knocks off maybe a third of XForce's life bar, and giving him 5 green AP is a recipe for disaster.

I think XForce will become just about as dominant in the meta as Sentry was. For different reasons obviously - Sentry broke shieldhopping in an irreparable way, but XForce is simply "the most efficient" - to the point where I'm honestly left wondering - does any team have a better than 50-50 chance against XForce/CMags or XForce/Hood other than Sentry? I don't think so.

Seriously - I have a decent 3* roster, and my Xforce is missing a few covers. For those I need 1300 points, or to win my bracket. Neither is happening when I hit a wall of Xforce, because literally the only team I have found that can beat XForce/Hood consistently is Sentry/Hood. Everything else, I have to get really tinykitty' lucky.

Unknown

Mystique xforce might be the new king (boost blue match blue once and mystique can turn half the screen into blacks)

However, sentry bombing is not dead. Just slower.

ronin_san

4hor, 3*Cap (or patch), Colossus would be well suited to beat a group with XFW. Build yellows. stun XFW. Throw 4hor for damage. You cover almost all the colors, and mitigate damage well w/ Colossus. 4hor's yellow is her weakest, anyway.

My (everyone is 270) group is OBW, Colossus, Deadpool. The 2 dudes both try to stop her from taking damage, while she heals them back to full.

Throw Deadpool for whales whales whales while she constantly snatches AP w/ 3/5/5 recon.

Eddiemon

I find Spidey/Patch to be quite good against Hood/Xforce.

Spidey's shield tiles generally deal well with the cascades when they happen, and patch can soak up damage.

As for black, if you web patch when he gets enough black, hood will use his black ability instead as the only available option.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

I find Spidey/Patch to be quite good against Hood/Xforce.

Spidey's shield tiles generally deal well with the cascades when they happen, and patch can soak up damage.

As for black, if you web patch when he gets enough black, hood will use his black ability instead as the only available option.

Sounds like Captain Marvel & Torch could also work using the stun trick ~ deny black & green ~ throw out Flame Jet ASAP to avoid green AP steal, Marvel will tank red & black for Torch and her passive may trigger a cascade/Crit, intimidation or matched recovery tile. Use her black to stun X-Force to force Hood into using intimidation and then use the red AP to fireball the bigger threat.

SodaPopinski

Lerysh wrote:

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

I currently run Daken/Patch/Guest quite frequently up to the point when I start shield hopping. They are fast and reliable (no )

...And you can consistently beat maxed Xforce teams with that?

Sure, why not? Take all the Green, enough black to stop SS, 5 Blue, use CR on X-Force, use BR on X-Force, match a cascade match (preferably with pink s), X-Force is dead. Kill everyone else. It's pretty easy actually. Note: my patch is 5:3:5 and I don't rely in TBTI to murder people. More like 4000 bonus damage if I happen to get 14 red.

This is myself on all accounts also. If he gets SS you are done, but i usually only boost a modest +3 and it is not so rough. The no are really the key because it does not take long to heal during a slightly easier match.

Don't get me wrong, it is still a tough match and you can never control the AI cascades from regular matches, but I see probably 85% success rate against XF.

Unknown

The easiest way to beat X-Force is the skip button. If it's featured + Hood + X-Force (5 black), I skip automatically. If it's featured + someone not Hood + X-Force (5 black), it has to be a 40+ point match. With less than 5 in black, I'll hit it without worrying too much.

My default team is Hood + Lazy Thor + featured, and usually bring a stun or strike tile teamup. I have a pretty decent record against non-5-black XF, a bit worse against 5-black. I match black and then green ahead of everything else. It takes a bit of luck, as does every match in this game, but ultimately not the end of the world to face him down regularly.

Unknown

You can't talk about matches against X Force in a vacuum. Assuming we're talking about a max covered X Force (and possibly max leveled) he's not going to be paired up with a weak character because he costs far more to max out than any 3*, so you should expect X Force + The Hood + decent featured character. If you're operating at a roster deficit you should just use the skip button. If you've an equally strong roster you'd just use X Force, though both Nick Fury and Thor (4*) can fight him reasonably well on a 1on1 basis (holding rest of team equal). However, neither Thor nor Nick Fury can fight him 1on1 in most PvP events because putting either + The Hood leaves the possibility of having no green coverage on your team, which is borderline suicidal. There are very few viable teams that can beat X Force in a featured environment. In a freeform environment, it's significantly easier as you'd also have far better control on what your strongest color is. Unfortunately freeform PvP is a very small minority of all PvP events, so X Force is likely overpowered in the current format.

Raekwen

Sentry bombing max XForce has never been an issue. I think I've been SS'd like, once? If he gets enough black to SS, the hop has gone bad anyways.

Once Sentry changes, he will still be viable, and I'm willing to bet you will see him just as much as XForce. Time will tell I guess.

Unknown

X-Force is powerful now, but the power creep will eventually normalise him. His damage is single target and hard capped (green) or unreliably scaled (black) which will prevent him from scaling with the power creep that Thorette certainly represents. Look at Devil Dinosaur - his 20k health at Max represents 4 to 5 X-Force attacks or a combination of those and SS / match damage.

In terms of taking him down, I don't think I've often lost to a maxed X-Force even without Sentrybombing. Deny black and green (priority to the likelihood of black targeting green tiles) - it's not rocket science.

Unknown

I feel that a lot of this anti X Force advice seems to be against those random level 170 X Force that are 3/3/3 and don't have any of his vital skills maxed out. Yeah those guys aren't really that hard to beat at all. If X Force is so easy I suggest fighting the Sentry + X Force + Doom essential node currently in the hard simulator sub. X Force does close to 5K after counting the tile damage and cascade damage (but not any additional damage by AP gained from cascades) for 8g, which is in the realm of Call the Storm but it's all focused on one guy. Surgical Strike will do about 5K damage too on a normal board (destroy 9 tiles for 4500 + 500 worth of cascade) and in most team configuration you'll immediately eat another 3 match+ move from the AP gained for similar damage. Then there's the fact that both move cause significant cascades that can often be game ending in itself. Yes a lot of time I take a X Force and it turns out it was only level 3 so nothing bad happened since level 3 X Force does less than half the damage compared to level 5 X Force, and same for Surgical Strike. But there are 5/5/3 X Forces out there.