Slots and character management needs to change immediately

Unknown

beaten to death topic yet I see no change in the near future.

Dev needs to seriously retool how players manage one's character's slot via the purchase and spending of hp. This aint a 20+ character game anymore, the introduction of new characters are coming in way to fast and majority of the players (including myself) are having a hard time trying to keep pace trying to earn hp to open up new roster space let alone trying to keep the covers they want. New characters do create diversity but diversity will not come when you are held back by roster limitation. Players will not enjoy or have a chance to play and test all the new characters coming out.

-Give players the ability to activate up to X amount roster space e.g. Default size = 20. You can purchase additional active slots via spending of hp.
-Create a storage area with a default size of say = 50 that players could swap characters in but are listed as in-active (which means you cannot use it in any event)
This area will enable players to continue the collection of covers and make day to day decision as to what characters they want to use in the near future and what to shelf.
They can swap players between the two areas with a daily/weekly or even monthly limit. Add a hp surcharge for abuse over the limit.

This will give f2p players a reason to progress without getting hit hard by the lack of roster space hence selling off important and rare covers.
The whales can continue to spend as they please. which does not change a thing.

Unknown

I think roster slots should cap at 500 HP.

However, per your suggestion to ensure the game ensures f2p players miss out on nothing. This game doesn't exist for any type of player if it doesn't make money. That is the simple truth. I don't feel bad if people have to spend about $20 every 3 months or so for roster slots. You probably don't need spend that much even. That's less than $2 a week about the price of 20oz bottle of soft drink from s convenience store.

fmftint

silverrex wrote:

This will give f2p players a reason to progress without getting hit hard by the lack of roster space hence selling off important and rare covers.
The whales can continue to spend as they please. which does not change a thing.

The choice of important/rare vs common should be a simple one

i do agree roster expansion cost does need to be addressed as the number of playable characters increases, imo the escalating cost was originally meant to deter duplicate characters

Unknown

I have no problem with the HP slot progression, especially out passed 100. Thats a choice you make to have that many slots.

What does need to happen is a rethinking of how fast characters are introduced. I understand new characters mean token and cover sales but that's not necessarily good for the game. Starting in Season 10 (after all 3 T4or covers get awarded), I think all new characters should first be season prizes, even if it's just one cover, and then a PvE release, followed by a PvP for that character in the next season after they are awarded. This would limit new characters to once a month, instead of 2-3 a month under the current schedule.

brisashi

I just think the cost should level off for roster slots sooner instead of just continuing to progress upwards. Topping off at 500 seems like a good middle ground.

With new characters they become increasingly important, and the players that spend HP for them are punished with increased cost as they buy more.

IamTheDanger

DANGER! WARNING! DANGEROUS TOPIC! ENTER WITH CAUTION!

This can end very badly if not handled properly. If D3 suddenly capped all roster spots at 500 Hp, then every player that spent more than that in the past would demand an immediate refund. And if they suddenly gave away a lot of slots, or made them free, it would be the alliance upgrade incedent all over again. (even though this would be completely different ). With all that happened, I hope D3 can use the experience to let them know how to approach similar situations. Such as changing the price of roster spots.

Seriously though. After the way the devs were treated when they tried to give everyone free alliance slots, (and, yes, I know and understand why players were upset, I was even one of them), they probably won't be making any major changes that have to do with Hp cost any time soon. I know I wouldn't.

Also, to D3/Demiurge, ... if all roster spots were to drop in price and/or even become free, I am stating right now, for the record, that I neither want, nor feel that I deserve, any refund. (unless the devs just want to give all players the same number of free spots in addition to what they already have, that would be cool ). To purchase the slots I've purchased was my choice and pleasure to do so. I have been collecting Marvel memorabilia for 30 some years. I just see all my characters as an extension of that collection. (yes, I know that I don't own them, but close enough). So as to adjusting roster spot Hp price, handle with care.

edit: ... just an idea, maybe a good solution would be that in events that offer new characters, they could make a "free roster slot" token as an award

Unknown

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

This can end very badly if not handled properly. If D3 suddenly capped all roster spots at 500 Hp, then every player that spent more than that in the past would demand an immediate refund.

No, this is not the same as giving out free alliance slots. Do you demand the difference between the price you paid for your mobile phone and its current price after one year from the retailer? That would be ridiculous. Even if people demanded compensation for something like this, they wouldn't get anything.

To the OP:
Too complicated. Just cap the slot price at 500 or lower and the problem is solved. Almost.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

just an idea, maybe a good solution would be that in events that offer new characters, they could make a "free roster slot" token as an award

this would actually be a really good solution, it wouldn't cost them a lot in the end either, plus no one would have to worry about selling a character to make room for the new one. As someone in the 70+ roster slot range the costs are just insane after a while.

Nellobee

Isn't roster slots the biggest used of HP, and therefore, largest profit source?
If so, I wouldn't expect them to kill that aurum-generating waterfowl.

babinro

My alliance was chatting about this the other day.

As someone who absolutely LOVES what this game has become...I could easily see roster slots becoming the reason I quit the game in a years time. I currently have 60 roster slots...the cost of buying more is expensive and only continues to grow. The rate at which I get new characters is quickly becoming faster than the rate which I can store them. The relative value of my $100.00 stark salary purchases is shrinking significantly as my roster grows.

It's a pretty ugly situation and worse still it's not a fun choice.
There's nothing FUN about spending real money in game so that 90% of it can open up roster slots.

I get that roster diversity is a luxury but it's also the reason many of us play this game.
I'd have been done MONTHS ago if the goal was just to level the best characters and stick with them.

This issue needs to be addressed soon. I wish I could offer a good solution that benefits players and the business side of things but unfortunately I'm drawing a blank. Any change made will drastically impact revenue from whales in hopes to lower the barrier to entry for less hardcore players.

fmftint

babinro wrote:

This issue needs to be addressed soon. I wish I could offer a good solution that benefits players and the business side of things but unfortunately I'm drawing a blank. Any change made will drastically impact revenue from whales in hopes to lower the barrier to entry for less hardcore players.

I would assume whales spend more on additional covers, iso, and shields than roster expansion

Unknown

I mentioned in another thread taking a large price - maybe 5000 HP - to open up unlimited slots.

Another possibility - cap the price to have one of each at 500 HP (so the 55th slot now would be 500 HP). Slots for doubles of characters could be treated differently so that someone with a single double wouldn't get stuck paying the higher price for an extra slot every time a new character is released. That way, even someone who has 100 slots now would essentially get a 500 HP slot when the next character is released, but an extra slot at the same time would cost nine million dollars or whatever it costs.

Unknown

I was thinking about this earlier myself. The main problem is that roster slots devalue the more characters are added, yet their price increases the more you get. What would help is if new slots got cheaper over time with the release of new characters. So instead of a drastic change, just a gradual change would help.

I propose something like reducing the HP cost by a set amount every time a new character is introduced (with a minimum of like 50 HP so they're never free). Not a large amount, but maybe 10-20 HP; just enough to make it so that if you add one slot with each new character, you always pay about the same amount of HP. That way your cost basically only really goes up when you want to be able to store a higher percentage of characters and/or start having duplicates.

Doing something like that shouldn't greatly anger people at having their slots suddenly greatly devalued. Also, it also clearly establishes a time-value to the slots; they are worth more the earlier you buy them. And lastly, it makes it cheaper and easier for newbies to get up to speed.

Unknown

Scaling the progression rate as new characters are introduced would be a way to do it perhaps, without as big a chance of angering people who have spent a bit to extend them.

If every time a 5th new character was added (or some other number, but let's say five, which is every couple months), some of the brackets just expanded a little bit, then some stemming of the slot inflation could be achieved.

So maybe it currently looks like this (I have no idea the specifics, I just know what my next one costs)

Slot number| Cost | number of slots with that price

25-28: 300 (4)
29-32: 350 (4)
33-36: 400 (4)
37-41: 450 (5)
42-46: 500 (5)

Cost of buying slots 25-45 = 8450

Now once five more characters are introduced, those slots could now look like this:
25-29: 300 (5)
30-33: 350 (4)
34-38: 400 (5)
39-43: 450 (5)
44-49: 500 (6)

Cost of buying slots 25-45 = 8150

Now 300 HP might not be a huge savings, but given that the number of characters you'd eventually want (almost all of them) has gone up by 5, you'll eventually want more slots.

With this happening enough, that 100th slot might cost 1000 HP now, but by the time there are 80 characters, maybe it would only cost 750.

Edit: I like that I basically typed something a lot like what sarlok5 wrote because I hit "post reply" without actually having read everything that everyone else wrote.
At least we both had the same clearly awesome idea!

Seasick Pirate

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

Also, to D3/Demiurge, ... if all roster spots were to drop in price and/or even become free, I am stating right now, for the record, that I neither want, nor feel that I deserve, any refund. (unless the devs just want to give all players the same number of free spots in addition to what they already have, that would be cool ).

I'm another one who wouldn't mind a cap at 500 or 600 Hero Points per slot.
If folks want to flip out because they've already paid more than that for slots, I'd suggest D3 open extra slots for anyone who did. They can do one slot for every 500 HP spent OVER the newly adjusted cost, and either round up or give HP change back.
I don't remember the exact cost of slots but for example, if slots capped at 500 and I had already spent 550 + 550 + 550 + 600 + 600 + 600 + 650, that comes out to and extra 550 HP and would become one slot plus 50 HP refund.



I was just discussing the price of roster slots with a newer player yesterday. They were trying to open up 3 slots for 500 HP and I just opened a slot for Mystique for 700 HP. It occurred to me that it came to about $5 for them to get 3 new characters and costing me $10. So for being a dedicated player for a year, my dollar is worth less than someone who started a week ago.
Thinking of it this way makes it even harder to justify the cost of the slots as they increase and will probably force me to quit playing sooner than later.

Unknown

That's part of the reason I finally sold poor old IM35 for Mystique. The other part was the incoming 4* Thor also needed a slot. 650 a slot I can handle, 1300 at the same time... not so much.

I would not care if they capped slots at 500 and offered no refunds. I think some people who have rosters at 100+ would care tho. After slot 100 they start going up by 100 HP PER SLOT, not per 5. I don't even want to do the math on how much excess HP that is above and beyond 500 per slot for 100 slots. It's a lot.

I have 50 roster slots, and feel like I need some more. This is not a good state of game, especially for newer players. The dearth of new characters is just too much. Half of them aren't even good. The only reason to have then is the PvE train. I am -] [- this close to selling my Daredevil, Beast, Doc Ock, Spiderman, Ragnarok, and Mororo and just win single covers for PvE as needed then sell them off.

IamTheDanger

KevinMark wrote:

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

This can end very badly if not handled properly. If D3 suddenly capped all roster spots at 500 Hp, then every player that spent more than that in the past would demand an immediate refund.

No, this is not the same as giving out free alliance slots. Do you demand the difference between the price you paid for your mobile phone and its current price after one year from the retailer? That would be ridiculous. Even if people demanded compensation for something like this, they wouldn't get anything.

To the OP:
Too complicated. Just cap the slot price at 500 or lower and the problem is solved. Almost.

No offense, but you either misunderstood or did not bother to read the entire post. While you are correct that it's not the same, I was saying that there will be people that feel it is. And those people will demand a refund or compensation of some kind. And not getting anything will just make them more upset. Even though they wouldn't be entitled to, or deserve a refund, they will feel differently. Which will only cause problems.

To use your mobile phone example, no, I don't feel that I deserve a refund, whole or partial, due to price drop a year later. But there are a lot of people in this world that will think they were scammed or cheated. It's just not possible to please everyone. The best the devs can do in this, or any situation, is to weigh their options, and go with best one. So, like I said, this situation needs to be handled carefully.

IamTheDanger

Lerysh wrote:

That's part of the reason I finally sold poor old IM35 for Mystique. The other part was the incoming 4* Thor also needed a slot. 650 a slot I can handle, 1300 at the same time... not so much.

I would not care if they capped slots at 500 and offered no refunds. I think some people who have rosters at 100+ would care tho. After slot 100 they start going up by 100 HP PER SLOT, not per 5. I don't even want to do the math on how much excess HP that is above and beyond 500 per slot for 100 slots. It's a lot.

I have 50 roster slots, and feel like I need some more. This is not a good state of game, especially for newer players. The dearth of new characters is just too much. Half of them aren't even good. The only reason to have then is the PvE train. I am -] [- this close to selling my Daredevil, Beast, Doc Ock, Spiderman, Ragnarok, and Mororo and just win single covers for PvE as needed then sell them off.

You're right about the high cost at 100+. But the way I look at is this; I have 2 copies of the featured character(s) while most others have only 1. So that means that I use the first one, then while it heals, I use the 2nd. Then just keep going back and forth. I can play for a long time with out having to stop or use health packs. It may be a bit pricey, but for me, it's worth it. Now anyway. Will it be worth it 6 months from now? Don't know. If the price suddenly capped at 500 per slot with no refund, I would be fine with it. All the hours of enjoyment that I've received in the past months more than makes up for all Hp spent.

That's where giving out "roster slot" tokens would be a huge help. Not all the time of course, just when there is a new character being released. Any other characters, or doubles, will still need to be purchased the regular way.

FaustianDeal

Ben Grimm wrote:

Another possibility - cap the price to have one of each at 500 HP (so the 55th slot now would be 500 HP). Slots for doubles of characters could be treated differently so that someone with a single double wouldn't get stuck paying the higher price for an extra slot every time a new character is released. That way, even someone who has 100 slots now would essentially get a 500 HP slot when the next character is released, but an extra slot at the same time would cost nine million dollars or whatever it costs.

I really like this idea. The cost of a roster slot should be pinned to the number of available characters; with 500 being the cost of the Nth slot, where N is the current count of available characters. If I want to have 2 copies of Hood then I either pay a super-premium for the extra slot, or I let someone go. ("Hey, Yelena, coach wants to see you... bring your playbook.")

Any slot numbered lower than N would price at 50HP lower for each 2 slots, like slot prices progress now going down to a floor price for slots (did they start at 100HP, its been so long I don't remember).

It could even be a 'super-premium'... slots numbered higher than N have an accelerated kicker... say +100 for every slot over N you are purchasing. Where you are, effectively, incurring a 4x premium price for each dupe you want to sign up.

Unknown

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

KevinMark wrote:

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

This can end very badly if not handled properly. If D3 suddenly capped all roster spots at 500 Hp, then every player that spent more than that in the past would demand an immediate refund.

No, this is not the same as giving out free alliance slots. Do you demand the difference between the price you paid for your mobile phone and its current price after one year from the retailer? That would be ridiculous. Even if people demanded compensation for something like this, they wouldn't get anything.

To the OP:
Too complicated. Just cap the slot price at 500 or lower and the problem is solved. Almost.

No offense, but you either misunderstood or did not bother to read the entire post. While you are correct that it's not the same, I was saying that there will be people that feel it is. And those people will demand a refund or compensation of some kind. And not getting anything will just make them more upset. Even though they wouldn't be entitled to, or deserve a refund, they will feel differently. Which will only cause problems.

To use your mobile phone example, no, I don't feel that I deserve a refund, whole or partial, due to price drop a year later. But there are a lot of people in this world that will think they were scammed or cheated. It's just not possible to please everyone. The best the devs can do in this, or any situation, is to weigh their options, and go with best one. So, like I said, this situation needs to be handled carefully.

I read your entire post (I read you wouldn't think you were entitled to or demand a refund) and I understood it. I just don't think anyone would think they would apply for a refund on something they bought because it was discounted later. Because this happens all the time, with all the products. It's probable that it's cultural difference. I'm almost sure we live in different countries.

Also, people who have bought more slots than an F2P player who is not in a top 100 alliance (hp rewards) already have several advantages compared to them:

1. no worrying about roster space. f2p players often need to sell their characters because they don't have the HP to fund the next slot because that new character is essential in next PvE.
2. possibility of multiple of the same characters with different builds or same builds for climbing without health packs or using the version appropriate for the situation
3. possibility of building TU buddies

No one is forcing people to buy more slots than the number of current characters. They are doing it for the advantages I listed above.

Unknown

I think the scaling cost of roster slots was originally put in to keep people from having four or five of a character (in addition to being a money-making factor)

The problem is that with new characters coming out roughly every 2-3 weeks, you start to reach a point of decline in HP earned vs spent where it's too expensive to keep all the characters. There needs to be a finer balance between the cost of a slot vs the amount of hp earned where you don't have to actually pay money for every new character just to have a slot.

Devs can't expect people to always delete characters because there's no room for the new one. The slots really need to be capped at something more reasonable - even 500 is actually pretty steep for some players to earn every 2 weeks after other hp sinks are factored in.