Thor and Ragnarok are ruining this game

Unknown

Does Magneto do his maximum damage for Magnetic Translocation even if there aren't enough tiles to be swapped? I can't imagine having 13 blue and 13 red tiles being very common. If he does, it obviously should be fixed. You should only be able to swap a number of tiles equal to the lesser of red and blue.

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Phantron wrote:

Does Magneto do his maximum damage for Magnetic Translocation even if there aren't enough tiles to be swapped? I can't imagine having 13 blue and 13 red tiles being very common. If he does, it obviously should be fixed. You should only be able to swap a number of tiles equal to the lesser of red and blue.

All you need are 13 blues. The # of reds is inconsequential.

Even 10 blues (very common) yields 6360 damage for a nice 636 damage/AP.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Does Magneto do his maximum damage for Magnetic Translocation even if there aren't enough tiles to be swapped? I can't imagine having 13 blue and 13 red tiles being very common. If he does, it obviously should be fixed. You should only be able to swap a number of tiles equal to the lesser of red and blue.

All you need are 13 blues. The # of reds is inconsequential.

Even 10 blues (very common) yields 6360 damage for a nice 636 damage/AP.

All true, Grey suit and Classic Mag are both better damage deals and have powers that can build into more powerful moves. However, they aren't considered as OP for 3 reason that have both already been stated, but I'll repeat.

1) They are harder to get enough covers to make them worth using, thus the average player doesn't face them often. (Ex. 5 Classic Mag covers give him a maximum level of 51...sounds like he's well on his way, but his purple power does 189 damage per swap at that level. Compared to the 636 per swap at level 141, that's not worth using compared to the Thor you've already got at lvl 85 at this point in your gameplay).
2) AP production powers are king: Thor/Storm/Rag/etc, all the characters that can dish out some damage and put you in good position to do some more makes that character a fan favorite and for good reason. Thus, while Grey suit and C Mag both can cause AP generation from their damage abilities (assuming good swaps and or fall cascades) they lack that continued power trip you can have from their direct damage counterparts.
3) The AI plays them poorly. Whether it's matching 4 of a color the AI team doesn't use, collecting environment tiles to activate "hotdog stand" or using Grey suit's green tile ability to make 1 match 3 and some random tiles that didn't help it, the AI always will make slower progression toward those more expensive powerhouse abilities. (FYI, not complaining, I would be scared of a supercomputer level AI gameplay)

It's possible that in time, we will see more people with 141 C Mag and 141 Grey Suit BW beating up on your team when on defense, but for now it's their ability to end a match quickly on offense that keeps them used even if it's not as much as Thor/Rag/Wolverine

Unknown

Katai wrote:

Thor and Ragnarok are really the only visible "nukers" in the game's meta. They represent the simplest way to do damage. Gather AP -> Cast for damage. They have the best conversion rates for AP to Damage, and every team needs someone in this role.

C Storm has a better damage/AP ratio with her blue. And it has a stun to boot. Black Widow Grey Suit has a higher damage/AP ratio than that. And Magneto would like to scoff at both of them. With two different powers.

The difference between them is that, excepting Mags' blue, they require more AP than you can get in 1 or 2 turns (or through boosts).

I'd be okay with nerfing the thunder gods, but I would much rather see more characters do the kind of damage they do so you have to choose between them.

I'm against nerfing them. They don't need nerfing. What is needed is more options in team building, and an AI that doesn't suck eggs with anything beyond simple powers.

And yes, you can stop Ragnarok. Deny red/green works more often than you think. Stun him. Use AP stealing powers. Or, honestly, ignore him because at the 3* level he simply doesn't do that much damage, at least when played by the AI.

Unknown

Zathrus wrote:

I'm against nerfing them. They don't need nerfing. What is needed is more options in team building, and an AI that doesn't suck eggs with anything beyond simple powers.

And yes, you can stop Ragnarok. Deny red/green works more often than you think. Stun him. Use AP stealing powers. Or, honestly, ignore him because at the 3* level he simply doesn't do that much damage, at least when played by the AI.

This. So very much this. Rags/Thor does not scare me away. The key is to stun him and deny him the colors he needs. Odds are really good you are wanting to hoard Red and Green anyway.

There is also an element of noob cannon to Thor/Rags. They are the easiest to use and get of the power characters, and people jump on them. Once you get deeper into the game and understand the mechanics, they are actually boring to play with. That said, the way the AI works, you will see them constantly. Rather than nerfing them, I'm with Zathrus on this. Make the AI better. Thor and Rags will still be good, but their simplicity will become more obvious and easier to defeat for most players. Especially when you start seeing Grey Widow, Classic Mags or the other combinations of characters that really only work when a human is playing them.

Improve the AI, and you will see a much larger of variety in the teams used. Hitting these guys with the nerf bat actually makes the game easier, and thus more boring. Improve the AI, improve the challenge, and these guys become a tool in your arsenal by necessity, not the only option. It is just like Magic The Gathering... there will always be reliable, simple deck concepts that will always work. Speed Red, Green Beatsticks and Blue Control all come to mind as this kind of play style. MPQ is on this same trajectory. There will always be huge beat sticks like Thor and Rags. And there will always need to be them. But for every one of them, there is a character like Wolverine. He takes a bit to realize how he functions, but once he's rolling, he's far more devastating, IMO. Sure Rags/Thor are simple, but Wolverine can make the end of the game inevitable if you let him get out of control with those strike tiles. As new characters and events roll out, you find new ways to make those combos work. Like pairing him with The Punisher or Modern Storm. Strike Tiles + Attack Tiles are freaking devastating when paired. But it takes a human to make that work in the best ways. So again, we are back to a better AI.

TLDR: Don't nerf them. Make the AI better.

Unknown

I think Thor is fine, Rags is a bit strong though. If you wanted to make rags crazy OP for the AI all you need to do is tell it to not use Godlike Power.

Rags is boring, but fast and effective. There's no one faster. That's what counts on offense.

I don't think nerfing rags is the way to go, I agree more options is the better way and that is not by making 3* line up to 2*. The other 3* characters need slight buffs to bring them inline. Other than a few(mags/spidey/maybe gsbw maybe hulk?) the other 3* characters aren't all that much stronger in the same way. So that's a small 3* pool that players are working with and why wouldn't you bring rags other than being bored of him. The way that's he's boring to use and spidey is tedious to use doesn't make them less powerful or effective(they should be strong) so the answer isn't to just personally field a team for giggles. Make the other characters worthwhile to use.

I mean when you don't tank for a while then every team you see has a max rags and rightfully so, he's strong.

Unknown

I dislike the idea of counting cascading matches as part of Ragnaroks damage output.

You know what's neat? Strike tiles add to the total damage of attack tiles. That means that if even one one of m.storms attack tiles are on the board, its modified by the damage of strike tiles. (Damage from all attack tiles) + (strike tile damage). That can add up quick. I wonder how well m.storm, daken, and thor would do against a team with ragnarok.

Unknown

I have played against many different teams. I have C Storm maxed, spiderman level 120, and black widow level 50. The only team I WILL skip is Ragnarok, thor team. It is dam near impossible to beat those 2 together. I would battle thor and wolverine any day. The only people defending Ragnarok is people that uses him. You rarely see a team without one or the other. But C Storm and vemon gets nerfed. My old team was spider venom and c storm. devour the whole team was awesome to beating a Ragnarok, thor, wolverine team. Other wise impossible.

I have been whooped in less than 4 turns by Ragnarok, thor, and anybody else. Sooo I dont want to hear that thor and Ragnarok are fine the way they are. Why did venom get nerfed?

Unknown

Nobody uses thor and ragnarok together lmao

Eddiemon

There will always be best characters to play if this game remains good. The trick for the devs is to try to ensure that the best aren't head and shoulders above the next contenders.

Imagine if you erased Thor and rag from the game. Who would you use instead? They are the new ones you would complain about.

I do believe rags is broken because 2ap for an ability that provokes cascades is out of line with anything else. People have been comparing the direct damage of the ability with magneto, but consider that for 10 red ap you don't just get the direct hammer damage but also the incidental cascades, match 5s and criticals that accompany the power.

The only thing that makes rag playable is the broken AI. If the computer matches 6 red, it will take 3 rounds to use it up, and offer you the opportunity to match green to limit cascades. If the computer actually chained rags abilities we would need a lot more health packs.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

There will always be best characters to play if this game remains good. The trick for the devs is to try to ensure that the best aren't head and shoulders above the next contenders.

Imagine if you erased Thor and rag from the game. Who would you use instead? They are the new ones you would complain about.

I do believe rags is broken because 2ap for an ability that provokes cascades is out of line with anything else. People have been comparing the direct damage of the ability with magneto, but consider that for 10 red ap you don't just get the direct hammer damage but also the incidental cascades, match 5s and criticals that accompany the power.

The only thing that makes rag playable is the broken AI. If the computer matches 6 red, it will take 3 rounds to use it up, and offer you the opportunity to match green to limit cascades. If the computer actually chained rags abilities we would need a lot more health packs.

There are always going to be characters stronger than others, but there's a difference between how powerful Thor is relative to 2 stars, or hearing Ragnarok yell at you 10 times as soon as he made a red match.

Thor either needs a damage nerf or he needs a character that strongly counters him, like Hulk versus Wolverine (Anger eats Wolverine for breakfast, or at least absolutely forces you to have a stunner).

Unknown

Rag is OP because of black widow. The team kill speed is ridiculously high because all you need to do is get 10 red and then the next turn you win. It's quite mindless and now that I have a max rags I find myself competing in less tournaments because I don't even care about the rewards ... there's no current hero that would has anything relevant to contribute to my rag / BWG combo.

Magneto does a lot of damage, but its single target and overkill in most cases, and then you have to collect AP again for each of the other 2 guys. So at least there is some work involved.


The problem is, as long as the Rag/BWG combo is so good, I don't have motivation to use anything else. My motivation to play is just for collection sake, which is weaker than if I actually had something to improve that would affect the strength of my team.

Unknown

Just thor now.

Unknown

bongo king wrote:

Just thor now.

lol

Unknown

TC i hope you're happy

Unknown

Abilities should be buffed to match what's strong instead of being nerfed to mediocrity. Look at a 1* like Iron Man vs a 1* like Yelena. Or a 2* like Wolverine vs 2* Bagman. Or hell, even 3* Spiderman vs 4* X-Force Wolverine. Ragnarok wasn't ruining the game, it's every other useless character that's ruining the game. Bagman is ruining the game. Yelena is ruining the game. Venom and Classic Hawkeye are ruining the game. The top characters aren't overpowered, the bottom characters just have no use besides being a total waste of tokens/ISO/HP.

If Ragnarok was truly changed due to "balance", why wasn't he changed months ago? He's been exactly the same for a long time now and apparently the devs didn't care. But now that everyone has a Ragnarok they decide that he's too strong (right after people spent thousands of HP leveling up Thunderclap no doubt). Who's next on their list? I hope nobody here plans to buy Spiderman's blue!

Unknown

If they mess with thor too im going to pissed off. -.- . Leave thor alone, he's one of the only decent 2 stars.

Unknown

Unity wrote:

If they mess with thor too im going to pissed off. -.- . Leave thor alone, he's one of the only decent 2 stars.

He's scheduled for next nerf, after Bag-woman gets her buff.

Dayv

GEFPenst wrote:

Unity wrote:

If they mess with thor too im going to pissed off. -.- . Leave thor alone, he's one of the only decent 2 stars.

He's scheduled for next nerf, after Bag-woman gets her buff.

Well, to be fair, they didn't guarantee they're going to BUFF, Invisible Woman, just change her for game balance. They might feel she's overpowered.