Let's talk about the 900 points PVP reward token.

Phumade

rednailz wrote:

Phumade wrote:

900 is actually very easy to accomplish. Most people in top 50 alliances can go from 0pts to 850 in under 5 health packs, so a two star reward is appropriate here.

I'm in a "top 50" alliance with a decent roster and I wholeheartedly disagree.

I'm certainly blessed with a strong roster (day 300). I start each pvp with this roster. 200 X-force, 166 (Thor, Sentry, Hood, Daken, Black Panther, Falcon, Hulk, Patch) plus all the other 3* at various powerlevels. IMHO, that is an average Top 25 Alliance roster. Even in my alliance, there are at least 4 other guys who can exceed that roster. The overwhelming majority of top 10 alliance rosters easily exceed that power level.

From 0 to 400, I can play my other 3*s and get to 400 without touch my top tier characters, or use my top tier to finish matches with very little health damage. From 400-800, I can rotate through my Top tier to extend play or look for better team combinations. Even at 20pt matches against other 166, its not really that hard to get to 800-850 with 5 health packs.

Maybe its a bad assumption on my part, but from what I see on various recruiting posts, a top 50 alliance is looking for 700 minimum and fully expects you to carry multiple 166s. We are over a year in the life of this game, so LOTS of people have had plenty of time to accrue the covers and ISO to get to this stage.

I certainly do agree that you can be successful in a top 50 alliance with no max level 3*, but it just seems surprising that you wouldn't have at least 2 or 3 chars from 153-166. If you got that, 0-800 in the last day of a pvp (3hrs push) is not really a stretch goal with 5 health packs.

I was chatting with some of my alliance team mates, and they can consistently get to 950 /1000 before they throw the first shield.

As the game ages and matures, the overall powers level inevitably increases. I certainly do remember pre alliance days when 700 was a guaranteed top 5 placement, but that was 7 seasons ago and before the advent of coordinated shield hops / sentry bombs / X-Force surgical strike. There is no disagreement on my part that there is a rapidly growing class of players who have amassed an overwhelming amount of covers and ISO. I would go even further and say that many of these players like myself have been in the game long enough that they aren't even pay 2 win, rather they've accumulated enough rewards as F2P to be in the higher tiers of the game.

Nellyson

_RiO_ wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

I strongly feel that there should exist a better tier of gold token, one that is not quite a guaranteed 3* but that eliminates the chance of 2*s (for example rewarding Iso, boosts, health packs or HP in addition to 3*s). They would make a nice reward for the higher feats or achievements in events, particularly, the 900 point reward in PVP. Getting 900 points is not easy. It's definitely not a feat possible for 2* players that may benefit even from a 2* reward (which is the most likely thing you will open, by far). For every person capable of achieving 900 points, the disappointment of opening a 2* four out of five times in average achieving that score is really souring. Taking in account that with only 200 points more you get a guaranteed 3* (and 200 from there, a guaranteed 4*) it makes no sense that at 900 you'll be earning only 250 Iso many more times than not.

HP would be a welcome addition, but an unusable 2* is 250iso already. That's more valuable than most boosts (except all AP really), most Iso rewards (don't think they would offer more than 500) and health packs, while worth 150HP technically, are near worthless unless you're full.

At any rate, unless this new tier drastically ramps up the 3* drop rate, dropping random stuff 4 of 5 times is only a marginal increase over dropping 250iso.

I am obviously talking about significant amounts. As I see it, you should have for that tier of reward, a 50% of 3* or better, 20% of 500 Iso, 10% of 50 HP, 10% of 5 rare boosts (+1 AP to all/+20% damage to all) or 5 Health Packs, 5% chance of 1000 Iso and 5% of 100 HP, or something like that.

That sounds surprisingly fair. Instead of being handed what is essentially feces on a silver platter every time you open up a heroic or event token now ...

Yes! That "gold" token at 900 is a waste. It's like saying your efforts to get here are meaningless. Thanks for nothing tho!! I'm tired of all the 2 clutter in the tokens. I get all my 3 covers from the standard recruit tokens! How sad is that???? It's a miserable reward. Especially now with all the characters, 3 min. at 900 needs to be a thing. I like the odds you proposed there. Very fair and actually worth that 900 level. Hell, if they don't think so, switch 900 and 1000.

rednailz

Phumade wrote:

rednailz wrote:

Phumade wrote:

900 is actually very easy to accomplish. Most people in top 50 alliances can go from 0pts to 850 in under 5 health packs, so a two star reward is appropriate here.

I'm in a "top 50" alliance with a decent roster and I wholeheartedly disagree.

I'm certainly blessed with a strong roster (day 300). I start each pvp with this roster. 200 X-force, 166 (Thor, Sentry, Hood, Daken, Black Panther, Falcon, Hulk, Patch) plus all the other 3* at various powerlevels. IMHO, that is an average Top 25 Alliance roster. Even in my alliance, there are at least 4 other guys who can exceed that roster. The overwhelming majority of top 10 alliance rosters easily exceed that power level.

From 0 to 400, I can play my other 3*s and get to 400 without touch my top tier characters, or use my top tier to finish matches with very little health damage. From 400-800, I can rotate through my Top tier to extend play or look for better team combinations. Even at 20pt matches against other 166, its not really that hard to get to 800-850 with 5 health packs.

Maybe its a bad assumption on my part, but from what I see on various recruiting posts, a top 50 alliance is looking for 700 minimum and fully expects you to carry multiple 166s. We are over a year in the life of this game, so LOTS of people have had plenty of time to accrue the covers and ISO to get to this stage.

I certainly do agree that you can be successful in a top 50 alliance with no max level 3*, but it just seems surprising that you wouldn't have at least 2 or 3 chars from 153-166. If you got that, 0-800 in the last day of a pvp (3hrs push) is not really a stretch goal with 5 health packs.

I was chatting with some of my alliance team mates, and they can consistently get to 950 /1000 before they throw the first shield.

As the game ages and matures, the overall powers level inevitably increases. I certainly do remember pre alliance days when 700 was a guaranteed top 5 placement, but that was 7 seasons ago and before the advent of coordinated shield hops / sentry bombs / X-Force surgical strike. There is no disagreement on my part that there is a rapidly growing class of players who have amassed an overwhelming amount of covers and ISO. I would go even further and say that many of these players like myself have been in the game long enough that they aren't even pay 2 win, rather they've accumulated enough rewards as F2P to be in the higher tiers of the game.

That formula works if you have sentry / hood. I haven't wasted a lot of ISO or HP and I'm around day 300. I could have a few maxed 166's if I dropped a bit of cash, but I plug along saving real money for treats. I wasn't smart to save all my cards and buy roster slots. I sold all my hood cards despite liking him and the idea because he didn't' come up enough and I was conserving ISO. Short story long, I can hit 700 easy breezy but 1 bad board and there's 2 - 3 health packs, especially if you can't use the loaner that round. What I've found is that if you don't have the team de jour, you're going to need those health packs if you are stuck in the bottom of the top. My x force is alright, but let's be honest, he'll need heals here and there when AI decides to match your regen with 1 turn left...lol.

I belong to a very nice top tier alliance that has welcomed in players that don't even have 1 maxed out 3*, and for people like them, and fools like me that didn't do it right, getting to 750 is very doable, but there's a wall. I've found another wall at 850 without either sentry/hood, or a high level x force and a 166 something else. I think it's been too long since you've been slugging it out with us lil guys. It's actually getting thick after 700 unless you a spending too much HP on shields. I agree, you should be able to make it to a minimum of 600 without getting hit if you are climbing right, but I really disagree with your expectations. It also all depends on what you spend on shields, and if you are boosting. After even 600 I'll need to boost. I'm not cheap, but saving iso to try and get my lvl 150 to lvl 155, or build my guys I want to use for fun.

I do agree on a lot of accounts though. If you join at the right time, you could make (in my opinion 600) in a good push. Maybe you are a better player, but 800 is just out of reach for me in 1 push. Another thing I agree with is that at a certain level it is by no means a pay to win, which is nice. It also helps if you can buck the trend of the hot duo. I suffered greatly with the patchnedo nerf and relied on it too much i think..lol

Phumade

I do agree on a lot of accounts though. If you join at the right time, you could make (in my opinion 600) in a good push. Maybe you are a better player, but 800 is just out of reach for me in 1 push. Another thing I agree with is that at a certain level it is by no means a pay to win, which is nice. It also helps if you can buck the trend of the hot duo. I suffered greatly with the patchnedo nerf and relied on it too much i think..lol

I think that in another season or or two (assuming that you can win the right pvp covers) you will be breaking the 800 point barrier in one 3hr push fairly easily. To be sure, in three hours I have the benefit of my starting 5 health packs + 1 health pack every 35 min + the natural heals from rotating chars. I am by no stretch considered a good match 3 player. I just have the benefit of a wide and deep roster. I also continuously boost green/black from 600pts on. plus red/yellow once I start to sentry bomb.

Ultimately isn't that what every top 50 alliance player shoots for? A roster that lets them compete easily for the top prizes! It took me 4 seasons of pushing very hard to get that roster, but once your there its actually pretty easy to maintain.

I'll say one extra caveat. I knew how important the 5th covers are in 3* land, so when I saw the 5th black X-force come up as the 1300 award. I made it a point to start early and shield hop to 1300, even if it meant that I had to make 5 shield hops instead of 1 or 2.

The 800 point barrier is so important to being successful as a higher level mpq player. From 600-800, virtually every match is against 3 100+ level chars with a match value of 20-25. But once you break 800, you finally get visability into the 40+ matches. If you stop and shield in the 600-700 point range, you will still have very hard matches for very low points until you break 800. By that point you've used up a 1 or 2 health packs, and you've probably lost 1/2 your health point totals in your top shelf chars.

I tell the new members of my alliance that, "If you can't break the 800pt barrier in one go, your better off stopping below 500 unshielded and then starting back with full health and 5 healthpacks" But once you break 800 points, 1300 points is just a matter of shield hops.

This is my normal timeline.
PVP that I don't care about or need covers.
---Start with 5 hours left, push to break 800 hours (3 hrs left) shield out, Que up 3 40pt matches. Break shields with 8 min to go and sentry bomb to 900 to 950.

PVp that I care about or need to get to 1300.
---Start with 12 hours left, push to break 800 hours (9 hours left) shield, at 6hrs sentry bomb to 950, Shield up with 6hrs left, at 3hr mark sentry bomb to 1100, shield up with 3 hrs left, break shield at 8min and push to 1300. If I start earlier, it just gives me a bit more margin for error or bad cascade. If I miss on one of my hops then I just shoot for the 1100 prize.

This is probably the exact same strategy that every higher level mpq player employs.

zeeke

I agree with Phumade but the 800p walks differs for me, I usually start to find the 40+ Sentry/Hood matches around 700p. That is also where you stick your head out of your MMR space and start to get matches based on points.

However what I wanted to add is that more progression rewards would be good since they are achievable by more people. It is just based on how many shield hops you want to make. As a reference, a 4 star cover is 2500 hp if you buy it, that gives you roughly 33 shields (3h) for three same amount. If you can't make 1300p in 33 jumps there is something else you are doing wrong.

If I really want a 1300 reward I usually begin really early and push to 600. Sleep unshielded, push beyond the wall until I get attacked or run out of health packs. Usually around 900p. Then I jump every 30 minutes. 2-3 matches in the beginning and after 1100, 1-2 matches. 1 match per hop after 1200.

I'm not even have a full sentry, I use xforce/Hood or xforce/cMags. You can do it with patch/Laken in a pinch but it's harder.

Unknown

Yea, shield hopping is nothing new. Hell I did it 1 at a time with Captain America/Punisher when I needed to win those 3* Thor covers back in the day. They were my only 166s. What's new (and broken possibly) is the speed at which Sentry can hop. You can put down 3 fights in under 3 minutes if you are lucky.

I got 1300 in the last PvP (Blade). It cost me a pretty penny in HP, but I got a Blade cover and a Fury cover for my efforts.

Back on topic: The 900 point reward should be to 2* and transitioning rosters what the 1300 point award is to 3* rosters. Typically desired but hard to get to. I am felling more and more like the 3* cover should be here, and 1100 should be more HP or 1000 or a "Super Token" as mentioned by some.

Unknown

Not every reward tier has to be something useful, and if they are people will just complain why certain rewards aren't as useful as others. The token at 900 is disappointing but I think 800/1100 are meant to be the major rewards, especially for a 2*/transition roster, so having two weak rewards in between seems reasonable.

Unknown

That is just the point tho, isn't it? 1100 is quite hard to reach as a transition player. Impossible even I would say without at least 1 level 166. 900 is hard enough to reach as well. Why not make the 900 reward desirable for 2* transition players (a "super" token or a 3* cover) instead of a poor chances event token and either chuck the 1100 reward in the bin or make it a small prize on the way to 1300, like 1,000 iso, for the established roster players.

Super tokens already exist, in the HP buy-in events. Guaranteed gold cover tokens are nothing new. Adding in some % chance of "not a cover" for HP or ISO rewards is new, from the Anni tokens, but something that could be incorporated into a higher tier token prize. If you want a token at 900 make it 3 times better than the one at 300, otherwise it's just a useless step to 1100 for established players.