An idea for balancing, limiting the OPness.

Unknown

I've just had an idea.

We've had situations where characters like Ragnarok and Spiderman just keep spamming their powers over and over. We've had situations where characters have barely enough time to charge up enough AP to use their skills.

So I'm thinking. What happened if we implement this rule?

A single character on any team can only be allowed to use one Power per turn.

This way, characters with higher costs actually stand a chance. And while Ragnarok won't be as OP as before, he is still powerful enough to generate damage and green tiles per turn for very little cost.

What do you think of this concept?

Unknown

Nah, using and chaining powers is the funnest part of the game.

It's better to change the abilities rather than limit them.

Unknown

Chaining powers is fun when you are using Ragnarok. But not when you are at the receiving end.

Unknown

I don't have a Ragnarok

Unknown

Or just make 6x 2AP not stronger than 1x 12AP ability. The 2AP ability already provides the advantage of flexibility, there's no reason for it to be strictly stronger.

Unknown

The cpu only uses each skill once per turn, this is a pointless topic and is only brought up by those who are jealous of people who have a high level rag. (I don't have a high level rag) this is my opinion on the topic and a fact. However a limit to the number of powers per turn should be a concideration e.g 3 powers per turn so you can use thunder clap 3 times or you can any other 3 skills.

Unknown

Would have made Hulk event harder. I've been building up enough AP to feral claw spam someone to death. Seemed preferable to feral claw, enemy destroys strike tiles, feral claw, enemy destroys strike tiles, etc.

Unknown

Just make certain moves end your turn when used. The strongest moves in the game should have this restriction. Currently that'd be Force Bubble Crush and Twin Pistols, as opposed to Thunderclap or Magnetic Field.

Unknown

Chaining skills is the best part of the game. Imagine fighting Hulk without being able to chain abilities, it would be chore and take forever to kill. The devs can just change the 2ap abilities to 3ap.

Unknown

People really don't get that broken goes both ways. While you're chaining 5 Thunderclaps on some victim in a PvP tournament, your guys are also being slapped by the same mechanism on defense. Unless you're fighting guys way weaker than you in terms of roster strength, any cheap trick available to you is almost certainly available to your opponent, and in fact all it takes is for two of your opponents to have them to cancel out what you do. For PvE, if things aren't broken then you wouldn't need encounters with 3X level 270 guys in the long run to offset the fact that you can do some really cheap stuff.

Some of these moves might as well read: "0 AP: do some damage to the other team". There's no thought or skill behind using them, and it is never wrong to use it, and rest assured everyone you match up with a comparable roster strength will use the same trick on you. Just because you can't see the result of the defense battles doesn't mean it didn't happen. I think people's stance would change if the game mailed you the replay of your games on defense so you can see how many times your own characters were subject to the same abuse you were dishing out while on offense.

Having a 'one per turn' limit is band-aid though it is certainly better than just let the wound fester. But I think it'd be easier to just fix the moves that are basically free damage moves that sometimes generate free resources on top of already being free. Certainly most moves are nowhere strong enough to warrant the '1 move per turn' restriction overall.

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

We've had situations where characters like Ragnarok and Spiderman just keep spamming their powers over and over.

As far as I know, the AI only uses each power once per turn. It is only possible to take advantage of the spamming when you are using the characters.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Unless you're fighting guys way weaker than you in terms of roster strength

Many of the people here probably do, if the number of posts about tanking is any indication.

Unknown

For those who say the CPU only uses each skill once per turn, you have obviously never seen a Modern Storm + Venom/Modern BW infinite loop combo performed on you.

True, I've never seen Rag use more than a Godlike + Thunderclap once each on me, but obviously Modern Storm is an exception to it.

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

True, I've never seen Rag use more than a Godlike + Thunderclap once each on me, but obviously Modern Storm is an exception to it.

Only ever had that done once to me, recently in the Hulk event with a high level Rags and Venom. But meh, it's part of the game.

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

For those who say the CPU only uses each skill once per turn, you have obviously never seen a Modern Storm + Venom/Modern BW infinite loop combo performed on you.

True, I've never seen Rag use more than a Godlike + Thunderclap once each on me, but obviously Modern Storm is an exception to it.

That's because they often get extra turns where they're free to use the skill again. When your whole team is stunned (modern BW, Venom) that also counts as a new turn for the AI even though it looks like one continous turn.

That's why '1 per turn' wouldn't necessarily get rid of all the problems. Some of the skills are so good at cascading that you've a high chance of generating an extra turn even if you can only use it once.

Katai

AI only uses one skill per turn, although that doesn't really help in stun spamming. Ragnarok can only use the hammer once, but Spider-Man can chain his stuns since you are, well, stunned.

Unknown

I've rarely encountered this problem with a strong lineup. Choose a different lineup or use boosts. I can't imagine after using a trio of cache boosts being mashed up by the opposing team, even after freak cascades.

I've only had problems attempting to use weak lineups (intentionally) against strong lineups.

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

For those who say the CPU only uses each skill once per turn, you have obviously never seen a Modern Storm + Venom/Modern BW infinite loop combo performed on you.

True, I've never seen Rag use more than a Godlike + Thunderclap once each on me, but obviously Modern Storm is an exception to it.

And neither have you. Because that only happens when the AI gets... wait for it... more than one turn!. Modern Storm isn't an exception.

I also love that this idea "just came to you" when someone else posted the exact same thing in Suggestions a day or more earlier.

This would break the game IMO. This strategy is used by many different characters at many different levels -- M Storm (both red and green), Venom, Juggernaut, Wolverine, Thor, C Storm, Rag, Mags (red, blue), Spidey, Loki all have abilities with low enough cost that they get used more than once per turn. And does this also get applied to Passives? If not then it makes them immensely more powerful. If so, it nerfs them into uselessness.

Unknown

Zathrus wrote:

And does this also get applied to Passives? If not then it makes them immensely more powerful. If so, it nerfs them into uselessness.

Very good point, take Hulk's black for example. If it can only trigger once per (enemy) turn that completely changes the character.

Unknown

@Zathrus

Well I don't read the suggestions forum, so I couldn't have known about it.

But please forgive this little sinner for not reading EVERY single topic in existence. After all, not all of us can be as perfect and as wonderful as you, right?

As for the losing turns part. I noticed that when Rag gets an extra turn from Venom's Snare, he doesn't use Powers again, even though he had enough AP. Not sure why. Definitely not like Storm.

For Passives. Hmm. It's kinda hard to say. On one hand, they don't actually even activate every turn. But on the other hand, they are completely free, don't need AP.

How many of you played Puzzle Quest Challenge of the Warlords? In that game, once you use a power, your turn immediately ends. You don't even get to make a match. I'm only suggesting one person can only use a single Power at the most in one turn, not ending the turn immediately.

Unknown

bongo king wrote:

The cpu only uses each skill once per turn, this is a pointless topic and is only brought up by those who are jealous of people who have a high level rag. (I don't have a high level rag) this is my opinion on the topic and a fact. However a limit to the number of powers per turn should be a concideration e.g 3 powers per turn so you can use thunder clap 3 times or you can any other 3 skills.

A broken mechanic is a broken mechanic. I refuse to use rag despite having a 3/3 and enough hp to make him the vaunted 5 in red. Why? Because if you aren't the solution then you are part of the problem. A game with multiple characters should be diverse, not a game of "gentlemen's agreement not to use character x.". Cuz guess what...most ppl are NOT gentlemen.
Maybe I am the only person who follows through on his opinion, but I am.certainly.not the only person with/or able to get rag who isn't happy that he and almost solely he is the endgame right now.

That said, this is certainly not the way to fix thing. As someone said, the issue is 2 ap moves vastly outclassing high power moves in every way imagineable. Maybe one of the biggest issue, and ppl don't recognize this for some reason, is that strike tiles will affect a 2 ap 6 times vs only 1 for the 12 ap. That is a broken concept if you have the next per ap damage to already be superior for the 2 ap moves. Not only are the 2 ap easier to activate, end up doing more damage per an ap, and allow more uses of any secondary abilities but they also get more dios on tile damage. The only way to avoid this is to either eliminate low ap.moves (not the best option) or to neuter the one 2 ap move currently that is overpowered (rag). Magneto's red is balanced for a 2 ap move on a 3***. Weak damage, but it is low cost, can shake up the board, and gives you many dips on strike tiles. Where is the logic that rag's red should do around double to triple the damage as mag's red, drop more tiles, and have a superior mechanic (color change as opposed to no ap tile destroy)? There isn't a reason..its just a poorly balanced move.

If anything the issue with rag, and I assume that is basically.your main complaint as I don't personally find issue with spidey or magneto's 2 ap moves playing with or against since both have low hp for their lvl and don't do nearly the damage/ap create, is that he gets every advantage from throwing 5 2 ap moves in a row to throwing them.singularly. instead of needing for ppl to not be able to drop moves more than 1 time, make there a benifit (via a form of nerfing) to shooting the move.off once vs. Multiple times. Maybe make it so if you hold 5 red or less you get 1 green. 5-10 red is 2 green tiles, 15 is 3 red tiles, 20 is 4 red tiles, and 25+ is 5 red tiles. Not a huge nerf, but it means they have to build up to make it a godslayer. Or make it so damage is dropped by x% for subsequent uses on a given turn so ppl are more inclined to use moves once a turn instead of spamming 6 uses of his red. Heck, doing both would make for a still best in game move but.with some sembelence of cost analysis going into how you use it. Do I save up and get more.green tiles but a little.less.damage per a cast or.do I use it once per a turn and do more.damage...etc etc. I wouldn't have an issue with the "multiple use damage drop" being universal honestly (on all moves). Would give higher ap moves a little more oomph which they currently.lack.



Also, the machine only.uses moves one per a turn unless they receive an "extra turn" when they use a different skill. So, for example, rag red, then his green. The green activates an extra.turn...then rag uses red again (but not green as he used green to get the extra turn so the machine knows.it used green). That is the only way I have seen the machine repeat moves.