Make powers only usable once per turn?

Ronfar

Apparently there are a number of cheap powers that lend themselves to looping. For example, Ragnarok's Thunderclap makes green tiles to fuel Storm's AP generating moves, Magneto can get a refund on his blue Protect tiles by using them to make matches, Hawkeye's 8 AP critical tiles can be combined with a boosted character for repeated Thorned Rose casts, and there are probably others, too. Most of the craziest overpowered things you can do in this game involve using the same powers over and over again in a single turn. Making it so that each power can only be used once per turn would shut down all of the insanity in one stroke. A global nerf like this would be a pretty big change but it might be worth doing anyway for the sake of better game balance...

mischiefmaker

It might be better balanced, but it'd be way less fun. The first time a newbie realizes he can trigger Storm's red into green into another green is a "whoa this is awesome" moment. Be a shame to lose that.

Unknown

It doesn't really solve the problem because you can see when the AI pulls these tricks on you, what happens is on each turn you see their total AP going up from using the aforementioned combos. Sure, they can only use it once a turn, but it's not like you can somehow comeback from a game where an enemy is throwing 5 distinct skills at you every turn. It might not be immediately over like a human player would, but it's still pretty much over unless you pull off a miracle in the next 3 turns.

The problem is that you shouldn't have skills that can create an infinite loop, or even anything close to it (e.g. Thunderclap into Lightning Storm is probably going to give you enough red back to repeat the cycle most of the time). I always felt Moonstone's Gravity Warp is where the maximum of AP creating moves should be. In the ideal case, it's 8 purple AP that converts into 4 AP of relatively random color + damage. Classic Storm is basically 1 green AP -> 1 random AP, but does considerably less damage. Those should be the ceiling of the efficiency you can convert AP into random AP, let alone AP into colored AP.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

It doesn't really solve the problem because you can see when the AI pulls these tricks on you, what happens is on each turn you see their total AP going up from using the aforementioned combos. Sure, they can only use it once a turn, but it's not like you can somehow comeback from a game where an enemy is throwing 5 distinct skills at you every turn. It might not be immediately over like a human player would, but it's still pretty much over unless you pull off a miracle in the next 3 turns.

The problem is that you shouldn't have skills that can create an infinite loop, or even anything close to it (e.g. Thunderclap into Lightning Storm is probably going to give you enough red back to repeat the cycle most of the time). I always felt Moonstone's Gravity Warp is where the maximum of AP creating moves should be. In the ideal case, it's 8 purple AP that converts into 4 AP of relatively random color + damage. Classic Storm is basically 1 green AP -> 1 random AP, but does considerably less damage. Those should be the ceiling of the efficiency you can convert AP into random AP, let alone AP into colored AP.

Storm c is way better than that. She can turn 12 green ap to 30 random ap + the damage + cascades

Unknown

It doesn't have once per turn, but have a more lax limit like 3.

Unknown

Once per turn would be great! But only for Ragnok. Ragnok is a powerhouse and he needs his powers adjusted. So i think the once pee turn should be applied to him.

Unknown

Hadn't thought of using hawkeye like that. Time to try it out...

GuntherBlobel

I like the idea. Based on how the AI plays, I really doubt that the devs meant for powers to be used multiple times in one turn.

I just got Magneto's lvl5 blue power to find that it costs only 5 ap and returns at least that much with little skill. So yeah... It's practically an infinite loop and I doubt that is what the devs intended (although it's a bit obvious). Unless it is limited to once per turn I expect Magnto's blue power to change completely (I'd rather it be a tweak).

The global nerf seems preferable to drastically changing a number of characters.

OnesOwnGrief

Oddly enough, I'm completely behind this. This would open up new strategies and might make some underused characters more viable. I'm still waiting to see how a 3* Iron Patriot will break the game. (Also I wouldn't mind synergy bonuses for same alliance grouping.)

Unknown

Actually, I just thought of something. Several abilities end your turn when you use it, like Twin Pistols and I think something from Invisible Woman does that too. Presumably this is because the said ability is powerful, but seriously, does anyone think Thunderclap is weaker than Twin Pistols? So just make an ability that's basically self-sustaining like Thunderclap end your turn when you use it.

Unknown

Basicaly an abilty that cost 3ap or less should only be avalible once per turn or abilities that generate ap should only be avalible once per turn.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

Actually, I just thought of something. Several abilities end your turn when you use it, like Twin Pistols and I think something from Invisible Woman does that too. Presumably this is because the said ability is powerful, but seriously, does anyone think Thunderclap is weaker than Twin Pistols? So just make an ability that's basically self-sustaining like Thunderclap end your turn when you use it.

Something that has a good chance of generating a potential crit ending your turn right where the AI could cascade it? Yeah that sounds like a great idea . Seriously, they should just try bringing it up to 3 AP before doing any of these silly super-drastic ideas

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

Something that has a good chance of generating a potential crit ending your turn right where the AI could cascade it? Yeah that sounds like a great idea . Seriously, they should just try bringing it up to 3 AP before doing any of these silly super-drastic ideas

Yeah, or at least try the prospect out in a PVP event for the worst case scenario. Then again, that might hurt newer players that have to rely on ability combo characters like 1* Storm to win. At least it would get Ragnarok some rest. Poor guy needs it from what I've been seeing in NHB.

Unknown

I know people don't want to give up power, but what people don't realize is that more power makes you weaker in PvP because if you're infinitely powerful, all it takes is two other guys in the same MMR bracket who are as powerful as you to reduce you to nothing (those two guys will just be slaughtering your team). Even with massive tanking you're not avoiding these guys because people are pretty much thinking the same thing, not to mention due to the crazy swings in PvP you probably have people end up tanking unintentionally. Just because you cannot see your character getting infinite comboed by Thunderclap doesn't mean it didn't happen. If you have a high level Ragnarok, I'm willing to bet whenever you have one of those shocking moments of losing hundreds of points in a short period of time, it's almost certain he's also involved in delivering the said beatdown to you. Ragnarok giveth but it also taketh away, and right now it's definitely in the taking mode in PvP, because it's not a secret who is broken.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Actually, I just thought of something. Several abilities end your turn when you use it, like Twin Pistols and I think something from Invisible Woman does that too. Presumably this is because the said ability is powerful, but seriously, does anyone think Thunderclap is weaker than Twin Pistols? So just make an ability that's basically self-sustaining like Thunderclap end your turn when you use it.

Something that has a good chance of generating a potential crit ending your turn right where the AI could cascade it? Yeah that sounds like a great idea . Seriously, they should just try bringing it up to 3 AP before doing any of these silly super-drastic ideas

Yeah I was thinking a good way to go would be to generate one less tile per cast and then move onto 3AP at level 5 if that wasn't enough.

DD-The-Mighty

I don't want to see special move synergy go away an i love chaining powers together, but it is very unbalanced overall. i thin the best solution to keep them but control them is a tactic used in alot of modern fighting games: damage taper. the more combos you do the less damage they inflict. In better FG's this levs you the freedom to experiment and combo to your hearts content but keeps it within a reasonable margin.

Unknown

I think it would make for a good passive skill. Using an ability stuns that character. I think it sounds like a 3* ability. Maybe a 3rd Loki power. Something like this:

Loki 3*
Blue - Passive
When there are 12 or more blue tiles on the board, Loki takes advantage of an opponents agression, stunning them for one turn when using an ability.
Level 2: 11 or more blue tiles needed to activate.
Level 3: 10 or more blue tiles needed to activate.
Level 4: 9 or more blue tiles needed to activate.
Level 5: 8 or more blue tiles needed to activate.

Unknown

Hulk's smash is kind of like that, as it puts a drawback on his ability to create a ton of green tiles via Anger.

Unknown

Ronfar wrote:

Apparently there are a number of cheap powers that lend themselves to looping. For example, Ragnarok's Thunderclap makes green tiles to fuel Storm's AP generating moves.

I usually see him using this only once per turn. Except it's usually really once per turn, every single turn. Thunderclap > Godlike Power > Cascade > 5 red AP for next turn > pumkin cursing.