Now that we have 5 4*s

Unknown
Unknown
edited October 2014 in MPQ General Discussion
Assuming Devil Dino is also a 4*, that'd put the number of 4*s at 5. This is a good time to think about expanding the size of the team beyond 3. Not counting any 3* who is clearly not balanced (e.g. Sentry) or characters who fill a special niche rule (e.g. Falcon, The Hood), we should assume that any adequately balanced 4* ought to be stronger than the typical balanced should be stronger than their 3* counterpart, otherwise why even justify their costs? But now that you got 5 of them it should be quite possible to fill a team with just those guys, so teams will eventually settle on 4*s + (special guy, most likely The Hood). This doesn't seem to be a fundamentally solveable problem unless you make the 4*s suck or some 3* way overpowered, and neither makes much sense. If the team you have is bigger, there might be more room for other considerations. Yes some people might just put 5 4*s on the same team but thats probably not the best way to build a team. I don't think we need this for every event but roster diversity is going to go down even less if we continue to force the featured + 2 guys format. It's already pretty limiting when it's restricted to 3*s that are supposed to be balanced relative to each other, but now that we have 4*s that are meant to be stronger than 3*s things can only get worse. Unless the plan is to never fix Sentry so that he's always the premier PvP guy and likewise PvE will probably be Falcon + Daken + any green user for low (less than 250) levels and The Hood + ???X2, but I'd like to see this fixed at some point but it'd be no good if the ??? just gets placed by (insert 4* here).
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Comments

  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    Assuming Devil Dino is also a 4*, that'd put the number of 4*s at 5. This is a good time to think about expanding the size of the team beyond 3. Not counting any 3* who is clearly not balanced (e.g. Sentry) or characters who fill a special niche rule (e.g. Falcon, The Hood), we should assume that any adequately balanced 4* ought to be stronger than the typical balanced should be stronger than their 3* counterpart, otherwise why even justify their costs? But now that you got 5 of them it should be quite possible to fill a team with just those guys, so teams will eventually settle on 4*s + (special guy, most likely The Hood). This doesn't seem to be a fundamentally solveable problem unless you make the 4*s suck or some 3* way overpowered, and neither makes much sense. If the team you have is bigger, there might be more room for other considerations. Yes some people might just put 5 4*s on the same team but thats probably not the best way to build a team. I don't think we need this for every event but roster diversity is going to go down even less if we continue to force the featured + 2 guys format. It's already pretty limiting when it's restricted to 3*s that are supposed to be balanced relative to each other, but now that we have 4*s that are meant to be stronger than 3*s things can only get worse. Unless the plan is to never fix Sentry so that he's always the premier PvP guy and likewise PvE will probably be Falcon + Daken + any green user for low (less than 250) levels and The Hood + ???X2, but I'd like to see this fixed at some point but it'd be no good if the ??? just gets placed by (insert 4* here).

    I'd be really surprised if Devil Dino was a 4*. Expanding team size beyond 3 is an interesting idea, but it'd be a logistical nightmare (rebalancing all AoE attacks accordingly, UI updates to even fit 4 guys on screen, etc etc...) so I don't see them doing this anytime soon.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Ummm wasnt DD a star.png or did i miss something?
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    AJBCLF wrote:
    Ummm wasnt DD a star.png or did i miss something?

    That was the unfinished version. With three skills I would concur with Phantron that DD is likely a 4*, although a gold 3* isnt out of the question.
  • Sandmaker
    Sandmaker Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
    Expanding the team size would be a balancing nightmare. Just off the top of my head, they'd have to rebalance every AoE attack in the game, unless you do something clunky like it only hits the 3 people in front.

    Also.. do you really want to fight 5 level 395s in PVE? Urg.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    MarvelMan wrote:
    AJBCLF wrote:
    Ummm wasnt DD a star.png or did i miss something?

    That was the unfinished version. With three skills I would concur with Phantron that DD is likely a 4*, although a gold 3* isnt out of the question.

    Demiurge seems to want 4* releases to be a big deal (4* Thor / Fury spanning 3 seasons). There's no way they'd just release an entire 4* out into the wild all at once like they're doing with devil dino's release. 3* for sure.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    MarvelMan wrote:
    AJBCLF wrote:
    Ummm wasnt DD a star.png or did i miss something?

    That was the unfinished version. With three skills I would concur with Phantron that DD is likely a 4*, although a gold 3* isnt out of the question.

    What does the number of skills have anything to do with star level?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    There's been a number of suggestions on raid-style events, as well as larger scale "army-style" pvp events. Personally, I'd rather see an alternative game mode than a straight-up expanding of the normal battle.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Why would you assume Devil Dino will be 4*? Even if he was, expanding the team only delays your perceived problem until there are 8 4*s (or whatever number). 3 is a fine number for building synergy teams. You are thinking of Featured Characters as a hindrance to team building and roster diversity when really they are a boon. You build your team around the featured character, not in spite of it.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Building around featured team doesn't work. There's nothing interesting you can put together around Ragnarok or Psylocke. Even a decent character like Punisher just means you might sub out your usual green guy for him, or not because Sentry is still more powerful even with a +50% level boost. Balancing AE attack would just have them do 3/4 if there are 4 guys or 3/5 if ther are 5 guys and so on. Not every node needs to have more than 3 guys just like some PvE nodes don't have 3 guys right now even though they could have up to 3. Bigger teams might lead to just stacking more of your powerful characters but right now there's no reason to have anything besides stacking power unless the support guy is The Hood, so it can't really be any worse.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Once we have a good assortment of 4* characters, it'll just add another level to the game. Right now, it's basically noobs (1*), 2* rosters, 2*-3*, and 3*. There are a handful of functionally 3*-4* people now (there aren't really enough good 4*s to be running a 4* only team), but they're relatively rare, and will eventually become the people colonizing the top 10.

    And then they'll figure out a way to introduce 5*s. They pretty much need to let top level creep into the game to keep people invested in it.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I disagree. A boosted Psylocke is a great partner to Patch/Daken. 9 greentile.png 6 blacktile.png and either 5 redtile.png or bluetile.png and you can devastate the enemy team. Your giant pile of mega strike tiles will trigger on Psychic Katana, Chem. Reaction or Psychic Knife, The attack.png from Psychic Katana, and whatever match you make, plus the inherent damage from those abilities. And if anyone survives Daken is tanking Blue and Patch tanks Green/Yellow for the retaliation.

    If there were 3 slots you could run X Featured plus Sentry/Hood/Daken all together. That would be disaster to roster variation and enemies you see. It's bad enough that Sentry/Hood is the goto for almost all high level shield hopping.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Riggy wrote:
    There's been a number of suggestions on raid-style events, as well as larger scale "army-style" pvp events. Personally, I'd rather see an alternative game mode than a straight-up expanding of the normal battle.

    Like...maybe...some kind of PUZZLE we could solve!
  • FierceKiwi
    FierceKiwi Posts: 505 Critical Contributor
    Phantron wrote:
    Building around featured team doesn't work. There's nothing interesting you can put together around Ragnarok or Psylocke. Even a decent character like Punisher just means you might sub out your usual green guy for him, or not because Sentry is still more powerful even with a +50% level boost. Balancing AE attack would just have them do 3/4 if there are 4 guys or 3/5 if ther are 5 guys and so on. Not every node needs to have more than 3 guys just like some PvE nodes don't have 3 guys right now even though they could have up to 3. Bigger teams might lead to just stacking more of your powerful characters but right now there's no reason to have anything besides stacking power unless the support guy is The Hood, so it can't really be any worse.

    How is it any better there's still no reason to bring most character so it'll just be grab 3+ of the top teir characters instead of the current 2.
  • MarvelMan
    MarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    Ben Grimm wrote:
    there aren't really enough good 4*s to be running a 4* only team

    I beg to differ. I see a TON of people with 270XF/270Fury in PVPs these days. I see even more where XF was stopped around 220 and Fury is in the 200s.


    But I agree with the rest of what you said. =)
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    MarvelMan wrote:
    Ben Grimm wrote:
    there aren't really enough good 4*s to be running a 4* only team

    I beg to differ. I see a TON of people with 270XF/270Fury in PVPs these days. I see even more where XF was stopped around 220 and Fury is in the 200s.

    Which isn't a 4*-only team. It's two 4*s and a third person. If there were a bunch of teams of those two plus IW, I'd agree with you.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    FierceKiwi wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Building around featured team doesn't work. There's nothing interesting you can put together around Ragnarok or Psylocke. Even a decent character like Punisher just means you might sub out your usual green guy for him, or not because Sentry is still more powerful even with a +50% level boost. Balancing AE attack would just have them do 3/4 if there are 4 guys or 3/5 if ther are 5 guys and so on. Not every node needs to have more than 3 guys just like some PvE nodes don't have 3 guys right now even though they could have up to 3. Bigger teams might lead to just stacking more of your powerful characters but right now there's no reason to have anything besides stacking power unless the support guy is The Hood, so it can't really be any worse.

    How is it any better there's still no reason to bring most character so it'll just be grab 3+ of the top teir characters instead of the current 2.

    Because having 2 guys with similar color strength wouldn't make as much sense if there's more room available.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Ben Grimm wrote:
    MarvelMan wrote:
    Ben Grimm wrote:
    there aren't really enough good 4*s to be running a 4* only team

    I beg to differ. I see a TON of people with 270XF/270Fury in PVPs these days. I see even more where XF was stopped around 220 and Fury is in the 200s.

    Which isn't a 4*-only team. It's two 4*s and a third person. If there were a bunch of teams of those two plus IW, I'd agree with you.

    That's both because IW sucks and that most events do not allow you to choose your third character so even if IW is as good as X Force/Nick Fury, it is not possible to put such a team together due to the game's restrictions. But if IW was as good as X Force you'd definitely want a team like X Force/Nick Fury/IW.
  • Raffoon
    Raffoon Posts: 884
    I'm fairly certain that Devil Dino will be 3 star.png

    I haven't heard any indication otherwise.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Devil Dinosaur will be the first new 1 star.png

    Imagine the rage....it would be.......glorious.
  • h4n1s
    h4n1s Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
    AJBCLF wrote:
    Ummm wasnt DD a star.png or did i miss something?


    Guys please do not abbreviate Devil Dinosaur as DD! We already have DD - Dr. Doom and DD - DareDevil ...


    @D3/Demiurge - Please don't release following characters, think responsibly, we don't need more DDs in the game anymore:

    Devos the Devastator
    Doctor Decibel
    Don of the Dead
    Damon Dran
    Durok the Demolisher
    Dweller-in-Darkness
    Doctor Demonicus
    Doctor Dorcas
    Doctor Druid

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